E29 Tiller to Wheel Conversion

[1973E29 TUG]

I recently purchased a 1973 E29 with a tiller and plan on doing some longer distance cruising and like the ease of wheel steering. I have thought about converting the tiller to a pedestal/wheel. What year/hull# did they start building the 29 with a wheel? Has anyone gone through converting one of the older ones? How did you do it? How complicated was it? Were you happy with the result? Any other thoughts to consider?

 

[Loren Beach]

"Wheelin' and Dealin"

If you are going cruising, why add great amounts of mechanical complexity and expense to the boat?

There are threads on this topic here (click on the search icon, upper right part of this screen and enter the words) and over at the sailnet.com message archives. Check out the opinions and experiences.

The later E-29 (like the later 27) did indeed have a wheel. Ericson, being in the business of selling boats for money, noticed that newbies like having a wheel just like their family car. Lots of production builders figured this out by the late 70's and wheels started appearing in ever-smaller vessels. Sailing logic and simplicity gave way to the bottom line.

As to Ericson, they changed the cockpit tooling for the wheel version. If you are determined to retrofit a wheel, contact Edson and they, having a ve$ted interest in this, will design a system for your boat. Note that without a T-shaped cockpit, you would be limited a tiny wheel that is not well suited for sailing, IMHO.

Since you are a "recent purchaser" I would strongly advise you to sail the boat for a year or three with the tiller. Note that if the boat should exhibit helm problems like weather helm, "deadening" the steering with a wheel conversion is not advised -- when the boat really needs a recut/new mainsail...

Never change over to a wheel to "cure" a steering difficulty...
I only mention this because some buyers (not any Ericson owners, of course!) of used boats have expressed this idea as a solution. Oy!

Best Fishes,

Loren in PDX

 

[Seth]

Wheel

Right on, Loren! Definitely sail for a while as-is. The wheel is very expensive, and may not get you what you want/need.

You will lose sensitivity and responsiveness, for sure. You will add maintenance and complexity-as well as even more spares to bring when you finally sail off into the sunset. It will add weight right where you prefer not to have it.

The plus side is cockpit room, a slightly better installation if you are going with a high-end autopilot (but not if you will use a low cost one!).

In rough conditions, you will find that little wheel a lot more work to drive than a tiller-if the cockpit could accept a big wheel with 1.5:1 or better ratio, then it would be a different story, but frankly for ocean sailing you are better off without it.

The biggest advantage is probably when motoring around during an evening booze cruise, the wheel is nicer. .

Good sailing, good times!
Seth

 

[soup1438]

A Hen at a Tiller...

There *are* advantages to a tiller.

I've got an E25 w/ a Tiller... at first, I'd've preferred a wheel but, while it *sounds* nice, it's a lot cheaper (and easier on the nerves) to tame the tiller and still make small adjustments to it.

Of course, having ridden a motorcycles on-and-off for years, I'm not so "married" to the idea of a wheel.

Taking lessons from motorcycles to sailing...

With enough bungee you can attach ANYTHING to a motorcycle.

And so it is with sailboats...

 

[Phil MacFarlane]

My E-35 MKII was built in 71 without a wheel. Some previous owner added a yacht specialties wheel system. I sailed the boat with the wheel for 12 years. Sailed to Mexico and Hawaii with the wheel. For this years trip to Hawaii I removed the wheel and went to the tiller.
My reasons for doing this were, On a long sail I dont steer any way, even when I have crew they dont steer. Who wants to sit at the wheel and steer all day when you could be trimming sails, setting chutes, fixing something to eat or reading. Second and my main reason was it takes alot of energy to get the wheel turning and then stop it from turning. So when using an auto pilot or wind vane, they have a much easier time driving the boat with out the wheel. The boat self steered much better with out the wheel. At times I miss sitting behind the wheel steering with two fingers but all and all I think it is a much better system now.
Good luck and good sailing
Phil
Sail a Vie
184

 

[Martin King]

Of all the gear you can spend money on to go cruising, why would
you blow it on a wheel conversion? As has already been pointed
out, you need a cockpit configured for it to swing a decent size
wheel. Your boat is fine as is. Don't do this.
Martin

 

[Fencer21]

Hmmm...

I have an E27, and of course it came with a tiller, and I wanted to convert over to a wheel so bad, I called Edson Steering and got a quote and schematics sent to me.

I was this close **pinches fingers together** I was even looking at where I could cut the hole in my cockpit. Then I sat back and took a good look and asked myself if this is what I really wanted to do.

This is what I hate about my tiller:

-It's in my damn way

-The controls are along the port side bench, therefore they're in the way too and they're always getting kicked

-The tiller takes up too much room, and the handle itself is borderline too long

What I like about my tiller:

-I have a better "feel" for what the boat is doing, and how the rudder feels
The other day I drove my friends E32, and he has a wheel, and I just couldn't get the same feed back from it as I can with my tiller.

One thing I have done is fold the tiller back and stand in the back of my cockpit like I have a wheel, only thing is you gotta "push" the stick over in the opposite direction., but then you cant' reach the controls.

Anyway...I don't reccommend converting.

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

I, too, have a tiller on my 27. I love it. For one thing it is simple. For another, a varnished tiller looks good. For a third thing, it is not prone to failure. If it does fail, I can carry a spare, and do. Additionally, sitting forward in the cockpit keeps weight out of the stern, makes communication with people in the cabin a cinch--"darlin' would you please get me another beer and while you are at it I'll have a filet on the rare side with sauce bearnaise"--and keeps me out of the weather. A wheel would do none of those things and would be an expensive retrofit. If you have mid-boom sheeting, then the mainsheet and the traveler are both a long way off when you are in the back of the cockpit. KISS.
Morgan Stinemetz

 

[valentor]

Dissenting Opinion

Several years ago, I converted my 1978 E34 (IOR model) from a tiller to a wheel. I used the Edson CDI system which uses a drag link arm rather than a chain cable system. We were very careful to design the system to maximize the "Feel" by using a short tiller arm on the rudder post and longer tiller arm on the pedestal - resulting in 1.2 turns of the wheel lock-to-lock. To solve the leverage issue mentioned in this thread, I used a light-weight 44 inch wheel - the largest I could fit in the cockpit. I also moved the throttle and clutch controls from the front of the cockpit back to behind the wheel without changing the cables. The result in my opinion is fantastic, but I did sail the boat for two seasons with the tiller before I installed the wheel system.

The previous owner, who sailed the boat with the tiller for fourteen years also commented that none of the "Rudder feel" was lost in the conversion - and even Seth was impressed by the rudder feedback.

The system added about 13 lbs. near the back of the boat, and it tempts me to stand behind the wheel (adding more weight aft). But in upwind situations, I find that by sitting on the coaming in front of the wheel, I can steer the boat with one hand, see the waves and the telltales, and balance the boat easily. Downwind, I stand behind the wheel and find that it is MUCH easier to keep the boat stable in high winds than with the tiller. For me, I get a perfect symmetrical perspective from the standing position and am much more comfortable than sitting on one side with the tiller.

Installation was a bit challenging, but the most difficult part was modifying the rudder tube to expose enough of the rudder shaft to mount the tiller arm (quadrant for a chain-rope installation). I also had to re-route one of the scuppers, but the entire process took me less than 40 hours and cost a bit more than $3000.

The hidden benefit is the integrated wheel lock. It serves as a short-term autopilot that easily allows me to lock the wheel while underway and head to the mast, bow, or below for a minute or two.

Having sailed with the wheel for two years, I wouldn't hesitate to do the conversion again - I like the boat a LOT better with the wheel.

Steve

 

[Fencer21]

I think a 34 foot yacht needs to have a wheel. A tiller just doesn't look right.

I was looking through an old brouchure on the E27, and one of the models shown had a wheel cockpit, and two overhead hatches. That was a nice looking model. You just see that many E27's in that model.

 

[Seth]

Wheels and things

Steve's installation is a VERY nice one-and was a very good solution for his particular situation. For the type of sailing he has elected to do, it works.

His boat, the old IOR 34, was designed for a tiller, and if we were still racing 34 foot IOR boats around the bouys, he would be much better off with a tiller. Since he is doing more distance racing and cruising (without mark roundings and quick sets and douses), he has a good set up.

The question of wheel VS tiller is better addressed through an analysis of the boat type, type of use, size and weight, and maybe most important: cockpit layout.

Sorry, Fencer, I have raced across the Pacific 5 times on a 56 foot boat with a tiller, and I would hate to have sailed (raced) that particular boat with a wheel.

Some boats are best served with a wheel, some with a tiller, and generally speaking the bigger the boat the more likely they are better off with a wheel.

Certainly boats under 30 feet are much beter of with a tiller if they race. If performance is secondary (you will absolutely lose performance with a wheel in a small boat) AND the cockpit is suitable, then some boats do well with a wheel.

With that, I think I'll check out of this thread.

Cheers

 

[Martin King]

Sorry Fencer,
We campaigned an Ericson 37 (hull #1) with a tiller and wouldn't have had it
any other way-and the tiller belonged in that cockpit because it was
DESIGNED FOR IT! Wheel steering on small boats like a 27 is unecessary
and to my eye, looks ridiculous.

Martin

 

[Fencer21]

Don't be sorry...

Everyone has a perfectly valid reason for sailing with what they have or in some cases convert over to.

So far, I haven't heard of anyone converting from a wheel to a tiller yet, but I'm sure there's someone out there who has.

Hmm, it would be interesting using a tiller on a yacht that's 56 feet in length, racing across the pacific. I wonder how that would feel.

I have to disagree to some extent, a wheel on a small yacht like a 27 does not look ridiculous. There's something to be said for a "traditional" look and it is in my opinion a wheel provides that.

At any rate to each his own, and now I am checking out of this particular thread.

 

[Loren Beach]

Bigger sailboats do indeed have... tillers...

http://yachtbroker.escapeartist.com/boats/action/view/boat/150/

Here is the URL for "Rage" with a tiller, and 70 feet in length. Considered to be an easy-sailing offshore cruiser. Built here in Portland, OR. I have several friends male and female, that have done delivery trips from Hawaii on Rage and they all love the way it handles and the general feel of the boat --- not to mention double-digit speeds all the time....

All the smaller fast cruisers from Schooner Creek Boat Works have tillers.
I have had a phone conversation with a Californial Olson 34 owner that converted his boat back to a tiller after he bought it.
I would like to do so on ours, but cannot justify the $$ at this time.

None of this exemplifies what anyone else should or should not do or aspire to.... but at least the options should be examined from all viewpoints, IMHO.

Best,
Loren in PDX

 

[1973E29 TUG]

Thank you for all the great input

I had no idea there would be such varied and passionate feelings on the subject of wheel vs tiller. I certainly appreciate all the opinions on whether to convert or not to... as well as some useful tiller taming options. This information exchange a wonderful resource. Thank you all for your replies.

Is there any one out there with an E29 with the factory installed wheel steering...what are your thoughts on how they handle with a wheel?

 

[jamescio]

Changed from tiller to wheel in 04

I changed from a tiller to a wheel on my E-29 (1972) hull #196, last year. I am very pleased with the results. It required some thought in how to do it and make it look right. I am not that handy, but actaully did the work myself, and had people comment on how well it came out. The benefits to the wheel are it makes it easier for someone who is inexperienced (like my wife) to drive the boat. It is significantly easier to steer on long trips...I think this is the biggest benefit. Finally, I think it adds to the re-sale value of a boat this size. The down-sides are that the placement in the cockpit can really reduce the room in the cockpit and make it hard to get around. Being an old racer, it definitely does not have the same feel as the tiller. You really cannot tell when there have been shifts, when you are pinching etc. The final disadvantage is, that I could not mount the transmission shifter and throttle control on the pedestal. My boat has an atomic 4, and the transmission cable is extremely thick, but you can move the controls back a little bit and it really helps out. The total cost for the conversion was around $2800, with a compass. Would I do it again ? ABSOLUTELY. I took pictures before and after the install if you need any help.

I will be glad to help you any way I can.

Best Wishes,
Jim Ciotti
Wild Thing

 

[chrism]

Warbonnet crossed the pond to Europe, traveled the Mediteranean (sp), sailed back, did the Bahamas, and won many races with a wheel. I love wheel steering, and I love tiller steering. I would agree that you should stick with what you have. The boat probably does best with it.

Chris

 

[redwing]

I converted a S2 8.6 to wheel steering. This boat did have a T shaped cockpit. I used an Edson pedestal with pull-pull cables housed in a jacket. The installation was simple. Was it worth the expense? Probably not. I also had one of the few if not only C&C Redwing 30's with a wheel. This was mounted in the foreward end of the cockpit. This put the recessed engine controls close by, sheet winches next to you and the main sheet behind. All in easy reach, especially when single handing. I loved this set up. I now have an Ericson 37. hull #12. This boat was fitted with wheel steering back in 1974. The pedestal is also mounted in the foreward end of the cockpit in a setup simular to an Ericson 39. When I purchased the boat the steering was stiff with little feel. I disassembled the entire system ,cleaned and lubricated all sheaves and bearings. It now works great. As in the Redwing all the sheets are within easy reach of the helm. This makes her easy to single hand and clears up a lot of deck. If something were to break there is still a pretty 6ft long tiller in the forepeak. This can be mounted to the old tiller head in about 10 sec with one bolt.

 

[richmcn]

weight aft

I don't think anyone else mentioned weight distribution, in their well reasoned posts for staying the course. I think a boat setup for a tiller first and converted to a wheel later moves more weight aft, which is slower most of the time. You have more flexibility with weight distribution and keeping the boat on her lines with a tiller, especialy with a 29
Rich McN
Neegee
E-23
Chicago

 

[chrism]

A sidenote to Martin Regarding steering:

Do you know if the 35-II was designed for wheel steering with that aft cockpit area, or was that a special area for tending the mainsheet?

Chris