E30+ 1984 collapsing bilge line

[light24bulbs]

My E30 Plus has a remotely mounted suction bilge pump, located under the quarter birth. It can pull from either the bilge or the shower sump based on a selector. I believe this slightly unusual setup was factory standard.

It stopped working, I replaced it, and the placement isn't working very well either. I believe the line is collapsing and need tips how to pull a proper line. Here's the story:

My bilge pump was working fine but after cleaning the bilge and going for my first sail, a rock got stuck in the end of the line and since I removed it I still couldn't get the pump to work right. It would either work intermittently or just not work, I figured I accidentally ran it dry. I blew out the hoses in both directions using the crazy strong marina hose water pressure, it was fine. Impeller pump is a bit weird to have pumping bilge water anyway. I took it apart and couldn't see what was wrong with it so I decided to replace it with a gulper 320 by whale which is a diaphragm pump, also designed to be remote mounted just like the factory pump. Still weird but it's specifically designed for bilges and tolerates debris and can run dry. Very well reviewed pump and it cost me $200. Fitting it into that hole was not fun, it took all day. Very bad spot for maintenance if it needs it.

So I dumped a bunch of water into the bilge and gave it a try. Here's the flow rate https://v.redd.it/hfy7gz8y7lha1

Choppy, and slow. This is a 5gpm pump, probably 4x the rate that I'm getting.

While I was doing the replacement I noticed that the hose that runs unseen through the bilge all the way to the bathroom... Is really soft. It's not a vac rated hose and I think it's actually only gotten softer over time since the boat was built. It kinks incredibly easily if there's any bend. I think it's collapsing somewhere I can't see it. Has anybody managed to pull a new one of these hoses through the bilge. Seems like the bilges on these boats are really tricky what with the honeycomb structure. I got some new 3/4 hose which is rated for bilge vacuum duty, got a good deal at go2marine from Bellingham WA. I just need to figure out how to pull it. I also got a male to male barb union, so I was thinking of using that with some glue/tape and pulling a new line with the old one. Does that sound remotely possible? Has anyone managed to replace this line? Is it fixed in place somewhere impossible? Is there some way to get at the middle under the salon?

Another option would be to turn this into a pusher setup by putting a standard centrifuge pump in the bilge. I'd be giving up the shower sump. I don't even have a shower anyway (I got rid of the water heater aka giant lazarette obstruction). It did come in handy when my toilet had to be pulled apart (gross water everywhere) but..that's life.

Anyway, just looking for advice. I'm sure one of you somewhere has been through this on the 30+. Thanks!

 

[Loren Beach]

Another option would be to turn this into a pusher setup by putting a standard centrifuge pump in the bilge. I'd be giving up the shower sump. I don't even have a shower anyway (I got rid of the water heater aka giant lazarette obstruction). It did come in handy when my toilet had to be pulled apart (gross water everywhere) but..that's life.

Careful about that assumption. IMHO a centrifugal pump does not provide much 'push' pressure. It requires an unobstructed hose rise with no dips in the run.
Note B: EY used a lot of ribbed while bilge hose in the 80's, at least in the later part. That vinyl product gets really brittle after about 25 years and will crack and perforate. Best to replace it, based on time alone.
Our '88 boat had a mixture of the brittle white hose and some long bilge hose runs of reinforced "exhaust rated" black hose. The later was really tough, and actually a better quality product. They used it for the small diameter hoses for the Jabsco check-valve-type pumps. Given its age and seeing some cracks in the surface layerl I replaced all of those with new vinyl hose with the cast-in spiral reinforcing. In another decade I, or the next owner, can replaced them again.

 

[light24bulbs]

Careful about that assumption. IMHO a centrifugal pump does not provide much 'push' pressure. It requires an unobstructed hose rise with no dips in the run.
Note B: EY used a lot of ribbed while bilge hose in the 80's, at least in the later part. That vinyl product gets really brittle after about 25 years and will crack and perforate. Best to replace it, based on time alone.
Our '88 boat had a mixture of the brittle white hose and some long bilge hose runs of reinforced "exhaust rated" black hose. The later was really tough, and actually a better quality product. They used it for the small diameter hoses for the Jabsco check-valve-type pumps. Given its age and seeing some cracks in the surface layerl I replaced all of those with new vinyl hose with the cast-in spiral reinforcing. In another decade I, or the next owner, can replaced them again.

Do you have any tips about pulling them under your boat? How did you do the replacement? Use the old line to pull the new one?

 

[Loren Beach]

Do you have any tips about pulling them under your boat? How did you do the replacement? Use the old line to pull the new one?

I only thought that I was having some difficulties pulling new bilge hose thru the area under the aft berth in our Olson. Then I read about some of the efforts reported on by other EY owners!
I hope that you find some good narratives by searching, and that other owners can check in and provide links.
(It's an interesting way to improve your vocabulary of curses and imprecations.)

 

[Nick J]

I just went through replacing my bilge hoses, and found a few things that helped me out:

Bilge Hose Replacement Battle

One of the items I was dreading the most on my engine compartment cleanup list was to replace the bilge hoses. I put it off as long as I could, but this weekend was the time it had to go in. I chose Trident's 147 Vac XHD Bilge hose for the cockpit drain since it was below the water line. It's...

ericsonyachts.org

• Access is the most important part. I don' think it's possible to pull from end to end. You need to access as many areas as possible that the hose is passing through to help guide it. Every boat is different, so you need to carefully inspect your existing configuration before removing the old hose.
• barb to barb fittings don't work too well. The barb creates a stiff spot that doesn't accept tight bends well and the barb slips out of the hose if you don't have hose clamps on. Hose clamps just add bulk and make even more difficult to pull.
• attach a messenger line to the hold hose and pull the old hose out leaving the messenger line in the path. This is a bit scary since there's no easy way to undo this. Once the old hose is out, the messenger line isn't going to help get bilge water out, so you're committed to getting the new hose in. If you don't do this, you're almost guaranteed to have the hose to hose connection separate and you'll be without the original and without a messenger line.
• Attach the messenger line to the new hose and try to reduce the transition area to reduce the chance of it hanging up on a sharp corner.
• Sometimes pushing is easier than pulling and most likely you'll have to use both in unison to get the job done. Bribe someone else to help, just don't tell them exactly what you're doing. although not as bad as the head hoses, the old bilge hose is not a pleasant thing to work with.

 

[light24bulbs]

I just went through replacing my bilge hoses, and found a few things that helped me out:

Bilge Hose Replacement Battle

One of the items I was dreading the most on my engine compartment cleanup list was to replace the bilge hoses. I put it off as long as I could, but this weekend was the time it had to go in. I chose Trident's 147 Vac XHD Bilge hose for the cockpit drain since it was below the water line. It's...

ericsonyachts.org

• Access is the most important part. I don' think it's possible to pull from end to end. You need to access as many areas as possible that the hose is passing through to help guide it. Every boat is different, so you need to carefully inspect your existing configuration before removing the old hose.
• barb to barb fittings don't work too well. The barb creates a stiff spot that doesn't accept tight bends well and the barb slips out of the hose if you don't have hose clamps on. Hose clamps just add bulk and make even more difficult to pull.
• attach a messenger line to the hold hose and pull the old hose out leaving the messenger line in the path. This is a bit scary since there's no easy way to undo this. Once the old hose is out, the messenger line isn't going to help get bilge water out, so you're committed to getting the new hose in. If you don't do this, you're almost guaranteed to have the hose to hose connection separate and you'll be without the original and without a messenger line.
• Attach the messenger line to the new hose and try to reduce the transition area to reduce the chance of it hanging up on a sharp corner.
• Sometimes pushing is easier than pulling and most likely you'll have to use both in unison to get the job done. Bribe someone else to help, just don't tell them exactly what you're doing. although not as bad as the head hoses, the old bilge hose is not a pleasant thing to work with.

That's helpful. To clarify:
> attach a messenger line to the hold hose
How? How do you connect hoses to messenger lines? Tape? Cutting a hole and tieing? Wipping thread and needle?
> reduce the transition area
How? Tape?

 

[Nick J]

I didn't think about the messenger line until after I pulled the old hose out, so I had to install it with a fish tape. If you're pulling the messenger line with the old hose, you could just drill a hole in the old hose and loop the messenger through both walls. The transition isn't important in this direction because the messenger is smaller than the hose. once the messenger is in you have to attach it to the new hose. If you have time, ordering a set of pulling socks would be the easy way to go:

https://www.amazon.com/Wire-Trammels-Complete-Lassos-Carrying/dp/B07VNH1T2F/ref=asc_df_B07VNH1T2F/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366343882692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11684811738872812233&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027634&hvtargid=pla-813254468765&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=76503872296&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366343882692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11684811738872812233&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027634&hvtargid=pla-813254468765

I was impatient and couldn't find a pulling sock at the hardware store or chandlery. This is what ended up working for me:

• cut the barb off a 90 degree elbow. you can use the barb to barb connector you have.
• Drill a screw through the barb and flush cut both sides of the screw even with the outside of the barb.
• Tie the messenger line to the screw going through the barb.
• insert the barb assembly into the end of the hose a few inches past flush. Barbs are tight, so you'll probably have to use heat and/or soap to get it in
• tapper the end of the hose by cutting triangles out and wrap the whole assembly with electrical tape.

 

[light24bulbs]

I didn't think about the messenger line until after I pulled the old hose out, so I had to install it with a fish tape. If you're pulling the messenger line with the old hose, you could just drill a hole in the old hose and loop the messenger through both walls. The transition isn't important in this direction because the messenger is smaller than the hose. once the messenger is in you have to attach it to the new hose. If you have time, ordering a set of pulling socks would be the easy way to go:

https://www.amazon.com/Wire-Trammels-Complete-Lassos-Carrying/dp/B07VNH1T2F/ref=asc_df_B07VNH1T2F/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=366343882692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11684811738872812233&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027634&hvtargid=pla-813254468765&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=76503872296&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=366343882692&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11684811738872812233&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027634&hvtargid=pla-813254468765

I was impatient and couldn't find a pulling sock at the hardware store or chandlery. This is what ended up working for me:

• cut the barb off a 90 degree elbow. you can use the barb to barb connector you have.
• Drill a screw through the barb and flush cut both sides of the screw even with the outside of the barb.
• Tie the messenger line to the screw going through the barb.
• insert the barb assembly into the end of the hose a few inches past flush. Barbs are tight, so you'll probably have to use heat and/or soap to get it in
• tapper the end of the hose by cutting triangles out and wrap the whole assembly with electrical tape.

Thank you so much @trickdhat. I didn't even know those socks existed, I ordered one. Thanks for the help, I'll try your pulling method. What a tricky business.