Willpatten
Member II
Has anyone replaced a rope/wire halyard with all rope? If so, do you know if the stock sheave at the mast head will accomodate the 3/8" line?
E38 Main halyard sheave
- Thread starter Willpatten
- Start date
Morgan Stinemetz
Moderator
Hi,
The answer is "yes." I did it on my E-27 probably 25 years ago. In this day and age there is no reason for wire/rope halyards. All rope is lighter, too, I'd guess.
Morgan Stinemetz
The answer is "yes." I did it on my E-27 probably 25 years ago. In this day and age there is no reason for wire/rope halyards. All rope is lighter, too, I'd guess.
Morgan Stinemetz
i recently set about replacing all of the halyards on my "new" 27, and while the sheaves were indeed wide enough, we still ran into a wrinkle. i had planned on going "all rope," but the block for the boom topping lift was positioned really close to the sheave for the main halyard, such that a halyard of 3/8-inch rope would chafe against it every time it went up and down. that came as a bit of a surprise, and wasn't discovered until we had new halyards in hand and went up the mast to install them. 
to make a short story long, i had a swivel shackle spliced onto what had been intended for use as the new main halyard, and it will now see service with the spinnaker. and i have purchased a new wire-rope halyard for the main.
hopefully, you'll have better luck with your 38!
to make a short story long, i had a swivel shackle spliced onto what had been intended for use as the new main halyard, and it will now see service with the spinnaker. and i have purchased a new wire-rope halyard for the main.
hopefully, you'll have better luck with your 38!
Wire to rope conversion.
Wil, While converting to rope, consider replaceing the sheave at the top with something more modern and easier on the back when hoisting the sail. Close to 10 years ago I replaced the original bronze bushed, aluminum sheave with a Harken Hi-load #754 sheave and it made a world of difference. The Harken is 3" in diameter while my old one was 2 3/4" so if yours is the same size, you'd need to check first for proper clearance. There was no problem there on my E31 so there's a good change it would work for you too. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Wil, While converting to rope, consider replaceing the sheave at the top with something more modern and easier on the back when hoisting the sail. Close to 10 years ago I replaced the original bronze bushed, aluminum sheave with a Harken Hi-load #754 sheave and it made a world of difference. The Harken is 3" in diameter while my old one was 2 3/4" so if yours is the same size, you'd need to check first for proper clearance. There was no problem there on my E31 so there's a good change it would work for you too. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
All Line = Good!
Our '88 Kenyon spar has sheaves that do accomodate 5/16" line easily, but 3/8" is tight -- too much friction, we decided. I did try both line sizes on a couple of halyards when converting from the original wire-to-rope-splice stuff.
The good news is that the low-to-no-stretch New England Rope T-900 in the 5/16" size will hold in our existing clutch stoppers on the housetop.
What with the strength rating of this size line being about 7000#, they are about as strong as the fixed rigging wire on the boat, so strength, per se, is not a concern.
If your masthead sheaves are too narrow, go with a 1/4" halyard with an extra cover layer on the portion you handle when it is hoisted and you need enough diameter for good handling and holding in your particular clutches.
Opinionated Sidebar: if your boat has old early-technology "rope eaters" for stoppers/clutches, change 'em out for the much-improved Lewmar "falling rings" design. Yup, they really are (!) that much better.
Note B: when you make this change, remove those masthead sheaves and machine all the burrs out of them. After years of deteriorating wire strands abraiding the metal, they will probably be rough, and potentially chafe on your new line. Mine were aluminum, and needed this.
They might need new bushings, if they have 'em.
Note C: if you feeling especially flu$h, change out the main halyard sheave up there for a ball bearing Harken sheave and reduce the inherent friction drag in that 180 degree line turn... This should make the main a little easier to hoist.
Best,
Loren
1988 Kenyon spar / Olson 34 tall rig
Our '88 Kenyon spar has sheaves that do accomodate 5/16" line easily, but 3/8" is tight -- too much friction, we decided. I did try both line sizes on a couple of halyards when converting from the original wire-to-rope-splice stuff.
The good news is that the low-to-no-stretch New England Rope T-900 in the 5/16" size will hold in our existing clutch stoppers on the housetop.
What with the strength rating of this size line being about 7000#, they are about as strong as the fixed rigging wire on the boat, so strength, per se, is not a concern.
If your masthead sheaves are too narrow, go with a 1/4" halyard with an extra cover layer on the portion you handle when it is hoisted and you need enough diameter for good handling and holding in your particular clutches.
Opinionated Sidebar: if your boat has old early-technology "rope eaters" for stoppers/clutches, change 'em out for the much-improved Lewmar "falling rings" design. Yup, they really are (!) that much better.
Note B: when you make this change, remove those masthead sheaves and machine all the burrs out of them. After years of deteriorating wire strands abraiding the metal, they will probably be rough, and potentially chafe on your new line. Mine were aluminum, and needed this.
They might need new bushings, if they have 'em.
Note C: if you feeling especially flu$h, change out the main halyard sheave up there for a ball bearing Harken sheave and reduce the inherent friction drag in that 180 degree line turn... This should make the main a little easier to hoist.
Best,
Loren
1988 Kenyon spar / Olson 34 tall rig
I looked into changing to all-line halyards on my E38 but decided against it. The wire/rope halyards were new when I got the boat last year. Supposedly wire/rope is heavier, don't care, I'm a cruiser. I don't have to handle the wire at all. The headsail halyard goes up and stays up since I have roller furling. The main halyard goes up and down plenty but again I only handle the line end of it. The line end goes through the winch so no wear there either.
Back in the day, when wire was handled at the mast with a winch made for wire to hoist the sails I can see how that would suck. But with a wire/rope combo why does it matter? The new high tech/low stretch halyard lines are not cheap and then you have to also possibly convert sheaves, etc. to make it work. New wire/rope halyards are fairly cheap from Defender, etc. I can't see the reason to change.
I can raise my main within a couple of feet and then need the winch for the last bit. Its a 38ft boat with a full batten main, I don't expect to me able to pull that sucker up by hand. I guess what I am saying is the trend is to run off and "upgrade" to all line halyards when it may not be needed. Sure if you are experiencing problems and/or race then maybe all line is the solution. But if it works, and works well, why mess with it? RT
Back in the day, when wire was handled at the mast with a winch made for wire to hoist the sails I can see how that would suck. But with a wire/rope combo why does it matter? The new high tech/low stretch halyard lines are not cheap and then you have to also possibly convert sheaves, etc. to make it work. New wire/rope halyards are fairly cheap from Defender, etc. I can't see the reason to change.
I can raise my main within a couple of feet and then need the winch for the last bit. Its a 38ft boat with a full batten main, I don't expect to me able to pull that sucker up by hand. I guess what I am saying is the trend is to run off and "upgrade" to all line halyards when it may not be needed. Sure if you are experiencing problems and/or race then maybe all line is the solution. But if it works, and works well, why mess with it? RT
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
All Rope
We changed to all rope 3/8" line on our E-33 with no apparent problem. I did order about 6-8' extra line just in case I had chafe from the old sheave at the top & needed to cut & re-splice near the end. It hasn't been too much problem, though.
You could rig a messenger line with a short piece of 3/8" line whipped into place with messenger line on both ends & hoist it up there to see if it passes over the sheave well. That would be a small test for you, though it could not replicate the loads on the halyard.
Keith
E-33
We changed to all rope 3/8" line on our E-33 with no apparent problem. I did order about 6-8' extra line just in case I had chafe from the old sheave at the top & needed to cut & re-splice near the end. It hasn't been too much problem, though.
You could rig a messenger line with a short piece of 3/8" line whipped into place with messenger line on both ends & hoist it up there to see if it passes over the sheave well. That would be a small test for you, though it could not replicate the loads on the halyard.
Keith
E-33
