E39 Hull 84. Chain plate inspection

[TJG]

I am so thankful for finding this site. I have spent hours reviewing the posts on “Maintenance and Mechanical”. Lots of good stuff!!
I purchased our E39 last June. I currently have her on the hard to correct issues that were identified during the survey. My goal is to bring this gal back to her glory. I am new to Ericson and would appreciate any help.
The following items are in the repair scope:
1) Replace mast step. This seems pretty straight forward. Replace in kind, maybe change the material?
2) Replace steel support just forward of the mast (In the bilge). I am not sure what the purpose of this support is. It is corroded, not sure if this is a must do. Please advise!
3) Replace bulkhead where inner shroud/chain plates are attached.
4) Inspect/replace standing rigging.
5) Insect chain plates for outer shrouds. I am not familiar with this design. Hoping I can get some guidance from the group. I don’t see any moisture where the chain plate goes through the deck. Can a good rigger perform a good inspection? Reading the threads on this site it appears replacement is recommended. I have no info from the previous owner. Not sure if they have been replaced in the past.
Thanks in advance for any guidance.
TJG

 

[Christian Williams]

My boat has chainplates like that, big straps attached to interior bulkheads. They're not too hard to inspect visually. Apparently a little water incursion suggested by the dark areas, but I figure if the wood is sound they ought to be OK.

Do the outer stays attach to that big metal knee? Not a feature I'm familiar with (all my stays attach to visible interior chainplates on bulkheads).

 

[TJG]

My boat has chainplates like that, big straps attached to interior bulkheads. They're not too hard to inspect visually. Apparently a little water incursion suggested by the dark areas, but I figure if the wood is sound they ought to be OK.

Do the outer stays attach to that big metal knee? Not a feature I'm familiar with (all my stays attach to visible interior chainplates on bulkheads).

The wood of the bulkheads for the inner stays are rotten. I can poke my finger all the way thru just above the chain plates. I thought about splicing in new wood into the bulkhead. I decided to have both the bulkheads replaced. The “metal knees” for the outer stays penetrate the deck. I think that I am going to have to remove the wood on the inside of the hull to be able to complete the inspection. Hoping to get some guidance from the group. I would be awesome if someone has a drawing of this chain plate arrangement!!

 

[Kyle]

I have a 39b with similar arrangements and going to have to go through everything you have outlined . We were due to pull the mast out early this year and deal with the rusted Mast step along with the forward steel support . Unfortunately we had water intrusion from a really bad windlass installation that had degraded the foredeck core . We had to rebuild the foredeck (doubled its thickness 75mm) . We are about to start our Summer down here in New Zealand and we want on the water time . Will have to wait till next fall to have another crack at it.

 

[TJG]

Good Day Kyle,
Do you know what the steel support forward of the mast is for? I am trying to determine if this repair can be put off until 2023 winter. Have you done any inspection on the chain plates for the outer shrouds?

 

[Kyle]

Good Day Kyle,
Do you know what the steel support forward of the mast is for? I am trying to determine if this repair can be put off until 2023 winter. Have you done any inspection on the chain plates for the outer shrouds?

I believe the support is just that a (support) for the floor section, some are tabbed/bolted into the hull and some are not. Its forms part of a rather rudimentary grid floor section , mine from what i can see is not tabbed into the forward bulkheads in anyway. I put one of those flexible cameras up under to view around, couldn't make out much due to the corrosion. We have had it in its current state for two years and are happy with coastal cruising until we get it sorted. I will add some pics of our chain plates when i get back on the boat , as just doing them now. They are a variation of yours . We are also removing our inner stay for our Cutter rig , for Coastal cruising its not really necessary. We have brand new main and genoa for this season very excited to get them up.

 

[Kyle]

Good Day Kyle,
Do you know what the steel support forward of the mast is for? I am trying to determine if this repair can be put off until 2023 winter. Have you done any inspection on the chain plates for the outer shrouds?

chain plate data which may help you.

 

[TJG]

Kyle,
Thanks for the info! It is a big help. Please keep me posted on your chain plate inspection. I am guessing that the chain plate / shroud attachment point would be the biggest concern. Unless there were major issues I find it hard to believe that the hull to chain plate area would ever fail. What a great design. Thoughts?
Thanks

 

[Guy Stevens]

The Cap Shroud and aft lower chainplates are partial ring frames (or large Knees depending on your perspective), which penetrate the deck. I would remove the outer covers, then remove as much fiberglass around them using a dremel tool, (Do not nick the aluminum ring frames. ((A good way to prevent this is to wedge a sawsall blade against the ring frame before using the dremel tool on the deck.). Remove only enough fiberglass and old bedding as is necessary to get a look at the aluminum where it passes through the deck. Chances are that it will be fine, you are looking for signs of excessive corrosion.).
The forward lower chain plates should be replaced along with the rig. I highly recommend contacting John Franta at Colligo Marine and having them fabricated out of CERTIFIED TI. Tell him I sent you. This is superior in all ways, and about a 10-25% higher cost. They will then outlast the remainder of the vessel.
When rerigging replace the ss chainplate covers with some that you have made of G10. Fill the holes that the old ss chain plate screws penetrated the deck. Bed the new G10 chainplate covers with Sika Flex 291 using a binder clip if necessary to hold them down overnight. Do not screw them down.
Ask questions as necessary here or PM me. We have done this project on 39's and 46's both.
Guy

 

[Guy Stevens]

I have digital drawings from Bruce King for a lot of the e-39 production, and have Bruce's permision to distribute them. (I thought I put most of them here in the file section. ).

 

[TJG]

The Cap Shroud and aft lower chainplates are partial ring frames (or large Knees depending on your perspective), which penetrate the deck. I would remove the outer covers, then remove as much fiberglass around them using a dremel tool, (Do not nick the aluminum ring frames. ((A good way to prevent this is to wedge a sawsall blade against the ring frame before using the dremel tool on the deck.). Remove only enough fiberglass and old bedding as is necessary to get a look at the aluminum where it passes through the deck. Chances are that it will be fine, you are looking for signs of excessive corrosion.).
The forward lower chain plates should be replaced along with the rig. I highly recommend contacting John Franta at Colligo Marine and having them fabricated out of CERTIFIED TI. Tell him I sent you. This is superior in all ways, and about a 10-25% higher cost. They will then outlast the remainder of the vessel.
When rerigging replace the ss chainplate covers with some that you have made of G10. Fill the holes that the old ss chain plate screws penetrated the deck. Bed the new G10 chainplate covers with Sika Flex 291 using a binder clip if necessary to hold them down overnight. Do not screw them down.
Ask questions as necessary here or PM me. We have done this project on 39's and 46's both.
Guy

Guy,
Thanks for the reply! The information you provided is extremely valuable. I will move forward with your recommendations.
I wanted to get your thoughts on the forward bulkhead water damage I have. Is the correct repair complete replacement or can just the top of the bulkhead be replaced?
Thank You Sir!

 

[TJG]

Guy,
Thanks for the reply! The information you provided is extremely valuable. I will move forward with your recommendations.
I wanted to get your thoughts on the forward bulkhead water damage I have. Is the correct repair complete replacement or can just the top of the bulkhead be replaced?
Thank You Sir!

Good Afternoon Sir!
I sent an email to Colligo, attn. to John, requesting a quote for Ti chain plates yesterday.
I have been searching for the E39 drawings you reference above. No luck yet, but I am still looking!
I have attached a pic of the aft lower chain plate frame. Both starboard and port have welded joints. Unless these were field fit at the factory, I am guessing the upper sections have been replaced at some point.
Tim

 

[Jamiem]

Greetings E39 er! I have been working on my E39 for 3 years now and have had 2 awesome summers sailing her. your pick above of the aluminum support frame is not attached to the chainplate if I recall correctly but is a deck/hull support. I will try to supply a picture of where the chainplate is embedded in the hull fiberglass once i get home (day or two)

 

[Jamiem]

The chain plate on the bulkhead is for one of the spreader stays if I recall and I had to replace part of my bulkhead that was rotted similar to yours. I also have two spots in on the deck that I need to remove the rotten core from. If you have not inspected your deck and sanded repainted it, I suggest inspecting closely. I sanded, repainted and Kiwigripped the entire deck to stop any water ingress while I chased down all the soft spots. You mentioned the fordeck having a soft spot on your boat. I suggest checking all the stanchion penetrations for rot as I found one of my soft spots there. I also reenforced the deck where my windlass is mounted to ensure It was structurally sound.

I have a million pictures of the boat inside and out so let me know if you need to see anything to compare to yours.

 

[Christian Williams]

If you ever get the time, create an album to archive your photos of the 39. Albums are especially useful to other members with the same boat, and make a handy reference when needed.

 

[TJG]

The chain plate on the bulkhead is for one of the spreader stays if I recall and I had to replace part of my bulkhead that was rotted similar to yours. I also have two spots in on the deck that I need to remove the rotten core from. If you have not inspected your deck and sanded repainted it, I suggest inspecting closely. I sanded, repainted and Kiwigripped the entire deck to stop any water ingress while I chased down all the soft spots. You mentioned the fordeck having a soft spot on your boat. I suggest checking all the stanchion penetrations for rot as I found one of my soft spots there. I also reenforced the deck where my windlass is mounted to ensure It was structurally sound.

I have a million pictures of the boat inside and out so let me know if you need to see anything to compare to yours.

Thanks for the feedback. You mentioned that you only replaced the rotten section of the bulkhead. I have been trying to determine if I can make the same type of repair. Is complete replacement of the bulkhead the “Preferred” repair? Can you provide pics of your repaired bulkhead?
thanks

 

[TJG]

Thanks for the feedback. You mentioned that you only replaced the rotten section of the bulkhead. I have been trying to determine if I can make the same type of repair. Is complete replacement of the bulkhead the “Preferred” repair? Can you provide pics of your repaired bulkhead?
thanks

I am also considering installing a windlass. Any Guidance and pics would be very helpful!
thanks

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I am also considering installing a windlass. Any Guidance and pics would be very helpful!
thanks

Hi TJG,

Bob ( @Bolo ) installed a manual windlass on his E32 and that’s probably the route I’d go if (when) I put one in.

E32-3 - Installing a Manual Windlass on a E32-3

Why a manual windlass? About sixteen years ago when my “new to me” 1987, E32-3 was looked over by a marine surveyor he said, “What this boat needs is a windlass.” Over the years that followed I looked at many a sailing web site, but mostly this...

ericsonyachts.org

These other threads may be helpful:
2 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/35-3-windlass-install.11286/
3 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/thread...-install-and-chain-storage-for-e38-200.11213/
4 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/e-38-windlass-install.8939/
5 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/anchor-windlass.3511/

When searching I have pretty good luck with a generic search engine (I’m partial to StartPage because they are less invasive than G**gle). I type in - ericson yachts [subject] - and can usually get quite a few hits from this site.

Cheers,

Jeff

 

[Loren Beach]

I wanted to get your thoughts on the forward bulkhead water damage I have. Is the correct repair complete replacement or can just the top of the bulkhead be replaced?

I have never worked on that model, but the "gold standard" for splicing one panel to another where full strength is a must is to join the two sides with a long scarf. Since we use a 12 to 1 slope for glassing work, I would imagine that a long scarf with a epoxy joining would be plenty strong.
Hopefully someone with ship wright experience can chime in.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Good Afternoon Sir!
I sent an email to Colligo, attn. to John, requesting a quote for Ti chain plates yesterday.
I have been searching for the E39 drawings you reference above. No luck yet, but I am still looking!
I have attached a pic of the aft lower chain plate frame. Both starboard and port have welded joints. Unless these were field fit at the factory, I am guessing the upper sections have been replaced at some point.
Tim

They were welded in the boat or next to the boat before everything went together. They are longer than could be cut out of whatever aluminum sheets there were getting at the time.
I'd be more interested in seeing the top, where there could be corrosion from the dissimular metal that the rigging pins going through the al. I have seen most of the 39's and 46's are fine, but a few had some issues there. (There is a way to fix that without ripping out the whole quasi ring frame piece.