ericson 29 suitability

[maggie-k]

Hi Seth my concern was the tension on the forward lowers when loading the backstay if the forward lowers have been preloaded for curve at a neutral position , The aft lowers would not be a problem, it's a very stiff mast for-aft . On a tapered fractional rig you can work wonders with and adjustable backstay but on a stiff masthead rig like the e-29 it pretty limited in comparison , I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. Great description of the effect of backstay tension Seth.
Your dead right about not wanting you mast to invert. Aluminium unlike stainless steel fatigues when brought past a zero point such as the straight position of a mast. This is one reason why many rigger insist on a bit of precurve as to invert the mast your first have to push threw the curve to straight , a very hard thing to do. It's the same reason aircraft parts are put together stressed so the never pass the zero point. As well as toggles failing I have seen more often clevis pins cut clean threw by the movement of sloppy stays .

I couldn't find a source for the Johnson handilock??

I would not recomend shortening a backstay as a DIY project. Stalock Norseman ect fittings require a degree of expertise to work properly Unless you are really confident don't do it and risk the loss of your stay. If you do use one tighten it and then open it up and make sure the button is done correctly I have seen many of these when on disassembly were not done properly and were held together by sikaflex and the grace of god. Best to take the stay to a rigging shop and have a swaged fitting put on .
This is a great site thanks to all for the great information.
Eric

 

[Loren Beach]

Here it is

http://www.csjohnson.com/us/marine/page26.html

Here is the link for their backstay adjuster.
The less said about their web site design, OTOH, the better.


Loren

 

[maggie-k]

Thanks Loren
Eric

 

[Seth]

Still not sure

Glad to help Eric! I hate to nitpick, but I still don't understand what you are getting at with your fwd lowers concern.

The BS adjuster on a thin frac rig is primarily for control of mainsail shape, and the running backs control headstay. If the boat was swept back spreaders and no runners (like the newer boats-beneteau 36.7, etc), then the upper shrouds do most of the work for the headstay, and the BS adjuster is primarily for the mainsail, but offers SOME small amount of effect on the hs as well.

On a stiff masthead rig like yours the BS adjuster is MOSTLY for HS sag, yet still gives a small amount of mainsail control in that you can get 1-2" of bend-which will make a difference in the sail shape-provided the mainsail matches the way you have the rig set up. But the biggest impact will be on the HS.

On bendy masthead rigs-even the newer 35's and 38's-certainly the RH 36's, it becomes more complicated. depending on how you have the rig tuned, in general the BS adjuster will bend the mast-which will flatten and depower the main as expected, and also tighten the HS..BUT-in rigs like this which can have 8-12" of bend, you get to a point where you have bent the mast so much that you begin to LOSE HS tension (imagine the "bow" of a "bow and arrow"-the distance between the top and bottom of the bow decreases as you pull back). To correct this, you will use the running backstays (which usually attach between the sets of spreaders-unlike frac boats in which the runners attach at the hounds) to restrict the amount of bend, yet allow lots of tension-this is how you can get a tight headstay, yet keep the main powered up when conditions dictate. You can think of it this way: the BS is used for headstay, and the runners are used to fine tune mainsail shape.

But I have digressed. Generally with a rig like the 29 (with fwd and aft lowers), the aft lowers serve to restrict bend, and the fwd lowers serve to ADD bend. Let's assume you have pretty full mainsail, so full that in heavy air you can't seem to get it flat enough, and you have set up the mast very straight. The solution is to ease the aft lowers and take up correspondingly on the fwd. lowers, which will induce some bend, which is called "prebend" because this is now a more or less permanent mast shape (unless you go adujst the lowers again). Lots of owners will just make adjustments to the fwd and aft lowers for the daily conditions: straight mast for light air and bent for breezy days.

Now, if you add a backstay adjuster to the mix, you want the fwd lowers set so that the middle of the mast cannot go aft of dead straight, and the aft lowers looser-so that the mast can bend as you add BS tension. The point at which the aft lowers become tight will be the limit of the amount of bend you can get (besides the limitations of having a telephone pole for a mast!). The looser the aft lowers, the more bend you can get, and vice versa.

I hope this was not too redundant, but I wanted to try and tease out what it is you were trying to say with regards to those fwd lowers. So, if I have not clweared anything up for you, please let us know again what it is you were concerned with.

Cheers,
S

 

[maggie-k]

Hey Seth it's great to someone as knowlegable as yourself on the list, Many thanks on the food for thought . I hope to talk with you in Sydney

Eric

 

[Seth]

No worries

hey-Glad to help!

Not looking too good for Port Sydney as of yet, but anything could happen.

Always open for questions,
S

 

[MAJr]

I have owned a 1976 E29 for some 8 years and often singlehand her. I lead the lines to the cockpit and added a simrad autohelm (the best thing I ever did) as it frees me to trim the jib easier, adjust lines, grab a drink, use the head, etc., and it is particularly good with people on board who dont know sh#t about sailing, but get in the way. You ask the guests to grab a line and they look at you with a blank stare, so I click the autopilot and do it myself. I have the tall rig and adjustable backstay, and you should get an adjustable backstay as they make a huge difference on the 29, tightening it when going to wind. I also extended the rudder, as the rudder gets narrower as it gets deeper, and with the 4'6" draft, the more the boat heels, the less control you have--especially over 15 knots. Otherwise the boat is fast and dry, and feels much bigger than its size.
Neal

If you are still reading replies, would you kindly provide additional information on "extending the rudder" on your e29? Thanks

 

[Mark F]

Hi marjr87,

Here is a diagram of a rudder redesign. I don't know if Lawdog used this design but it seems to be the "go to" for some '70s Ericsons rudder upgrades.

 

[toddster]

IDK. My understanding is that the swept back angle was to provide yaw damping. Maybe more important if you're steering by tiller? Dunno.
I suspect that the "small rudder" problem is mostly a red herring that distracts new owners. (It did me.) Possibly, it's really a signal to put some more study into your sail balance and reefing practice.

This old thread does have some timely information for me though, as I've been experimenting with a backstay adjuster that I added when I replaced all the rigging last year. I am beginning to suspect that when the stays are tightened up to the recommended tension, per the Loos guage, the E29 hull may be flexing along with the mast. A pattern of gelcoat cracks near the backstay suggest that the transom could use some reinforcement. And when things aloft get "pumping" in a blow, you can feel it in the settee backs near the shrouds.

 

[MAJr]

Hi marjr87,

Here is a diagram of a rudder redesign. I don't know if Lawdog used this design but it seems to be the "go to" for some '70s Ericsons rudder upgrades.View attachment 33397

Thank you for the reply and the drawing!

 

[Lawdog]

I have owned a 1976 E29 for some 8 years and often singlehand her. I lead the lines to the cockpit and added a simrad autohelm (the best thing I ever did) as it frees me to trim the jib easier, adjust lines, grab a drink, use the head, etc., and it is particularly good with people on board who dont know sh#t about sailing, but get in the way. You ask the guests to grab a line and they look at you with a blank stare, so I click the autopilot and do it myself. I have the tall rig and adjustable backstay, and you should get an adjustable backstay as they make a huge difference on the 29, tightening it when going to wind. I also extended the rudder, as the rudder gets narrower as it gets deeper, and with the 4'6" draft, the more the boat heels, the less control you have--especially over 15 knots. Otherwise the boat is fast and dry, and feels much bigger than its size.
Neal

 

[Lawdog]

I attached a few pictures showing the original rudder and 2 of the extended rudder on my Tall E29. The rudder extension made a huge difference in being able to carry sail before reefing from about 15kts, to about 20 kts, and also much better downwind control! With the original rudder, the more the boat heeled, the more likely a broach, even with my backstay pulled tight. After the extension, almost no broaching. Make sure you also have a controllable backstay going to windward on a 29 Tall for more control when the wind picks up.

 

[MAJr]

Hi Lawdog!

Do you have any drawings or schematics for the upgraded rudder design? Did you do it yourself?

Thanks in advance.

 

[frick]

Greetings
I have sailed my E 29 for the last 18 years.
She is a great boat and still competative in prhf racing.
Jib is a 130 and my mail has slab reefing.
I also have a tiller.
The helmsman sits forward and the trimer sit aft.
This boat is built like a tank. The keep is fully encapsulated so there are zero issues with keel boats.
get a proper survey.. and go sailing.

Rick
sailing the great South Bay of Long Island