Ericson 32 leaking stuffing box?

[Slick470]

That's right... I forgot that Maine sail mentions that same wrench in his article. It's in that link I posted in reply #2.

For the flax size, take a look at the Ericson 32 manual posted in the documents section on this site. They mention 1/8" packing for an E32. Otherwise, once you get the stuffing box apart, you can measure the gap with a caliper. The packing should be snug.

 

[Christian Williams]

Here's the link:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Stuffing Box

It is refreshing to see a photo of a stuffing box exposed for a repack. Our 28+ stuffing box is impaired by a bulkhead, steering cables, plumbing pipe, it is in a dark spot etc etc. We read about mechanics that replace their packing "in the water." I marvel at the thought. I stumble with the wrenches in the back yard with plenty of illumination. My best effort at a in the water repack would result in a marine salvage. C:
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+ Chips

 

[Alan Gomes]

It is refreshing to see a photo of a stuffing box exposed for a repack. Our 28+ stuffing box is impaired by a bulkhead, steering cables, plumbing pipe, it is in a dark spot etc etc. We read about mechanics that replace their packing "in the water." I marvel at the thought. I stumble with the wrenches in the back yard with plenty of illumination. My best effort at a in the water repack would result in a marine salvage. C:
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+ Chips

Pat,
On my E26, my very small bilge pump easily keeps up with the flow when I am changing out the packing. Assuming my bilge pump didn't decide to croak suddenly, I could let it leak all day and it would not sink the boat. In the unlikely event that the electric bilge pump decided to go belly up in the middle of a repacking job, I'd just tighten the nut and pump out the bilge with my manual pump.

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Stuff Repack

Hi Alan... The picture and your confidence make me more optimistic. (But) I hired a fellow to do a complicated plumbing job that required 8 hours worth of work on one valve. The location was tight and complicated but the illumination was very good. He had to stop the flow of material and I'm told that he had few leaks while he moved a lot of tangled hoses. He had loads of help. Replaced one valve and used 4 inches of plastic pipe. Charge was $165K but insurance paid for most of the heart surgery. I wouldn't have the surgeon do the stuff repack in the water. Maybe I could do the repack in the water if I practiced as much as he did? If I had watched the operation I bet I would be a more confident plumber!
Thanks for your counsel. It is very helpful, always.
Pat
1981 E28+ Chips

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hi Alan... The picture and your confidence make me more optimistic. (But) I hired a fellow to do a complicated plumbing job that required 8 hours worth of work on one valve. The location was tight and complicated but the illumination was very good. He had to stop the flow of material and I'm told that he had few leaks while he moved a lot of tangled hoses. He had loads of help. Replaced one valve and used 4 inches of plastic pipe. Charge was $165K but insurance paid for most of the heart surgery. I wouldn't have the surgeon do the stuff repack in the water. Maybe I could do the repack in the water if I practiced as much as he did? If I had watched the operation I bet I would be a more confident plumber!
Thanks for your counsel. It is very helpful, always.
Pat
1981 E28+ Chips

Pat,
My E26 has fairly good access, so normally the job would not take very long on my boat. But the last time I did it I was redoing the job that the previous owner's mechanic had done, and he jammed in packing that was one size too large. (My stuffing box requires 1/8" and, based on paperwork I found on board, he installed 3/16".) I had a #$%&^% of a time getting it out! I'm sure I spent well over an hour with the packing gland nut completely pulled forward, struggling to remove that old packing with various dental picks. Once I got the old stuff out putting in the new, properly sized packing took maybe 10 minutes. I'm sure that the next time I have to do the job it will go much more quickly, granting that the packing is now a proper fit.

And speaking of the right fit, the packing should fit snugly but you should not have to hammer it in or anything like that. If it's too loose it will be obvious and will leak like a sieve. Properly sized, there will be a certain amount of friction inserting it but if it's a big struggle you probably have packing that is too large.

 

[Christian Williams]

Charge was $165K

We have the same boat mechanic.

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Stuff Box

Charge was $165K

We have the same boat mechanic.

Expensive but high value. Like a Ericson.

 

[mfield]

Before you go into full scale repacking mode it is good to remember that you might just need to tighten the nut up a little to stop the leaking (back off the locking nut). I found the aforementioned wrenches useful, Westmarine also sell them. I was a little afraid to use a channel lock because the nut is a soft bronze. One wrench and a channel lock seemed to work. I tighten the packing gland a little and it stopped dripping in my E35 for long enough for me to find an excuse (new bottom paint) that I could get the boat hauled out and the gland repacked on nice dry land.

 

[photobug]

Before you go into full scale repacking mode it is good to remember that you might just need to tighten the nut up a little to stop the leaking (back off the locking nut). .

Thanks I have been too busy to get to the boat but contacted a mechanic to come take a look at it. Hopefully it will be less than $165k.

I am racing on another boat on Saturday. I can get down there early and try to crank the nut down. Confirm If I can get two wrenches on each nut, I just crank the wrenches to apart to tighten the gland? I had planned on spraying some PB Blaster on the nuts to get them loose for the mechanic's visit. Hopefully I can just tighten it down and go racing, save the $165k.

 

[Christian Williams]

Since you have a 1972 boat (meaning ongoing projects), and are a photographer, let me pass on an idea that works for me:

Photograph every piece of gear on the boat: engine, electrics, bilge, head, cleats, through-hulls, panel, fittings--everything.

We all need advice on projects, and photos posted here get the best response.

Often an idea will come up at home, and the photos help think it through without a trip to the boat.

Frequently familiar problems come up as forum topics, and photos show your own version or similar issue.

Believe it or not, it can be difficult to remember your own boat. Where is the seventh keel bolt? How is the "T" fitting rigged? Does my quadrant have a spacer?

A photo file of the yacht today also is a record of all the changes you make.

 

[photobug]

Since you have a 1972 boat (meaning ongoing projects), and are a photographer, let me pass on an idea that works for me:

Photograph every piece of gear on the boat: engine, electrics, bilge, head, cleats, through-hulls, panel, fittings--everything.

We all need advice on projects, and photos posted here get the best response.

Often an idea will come up at home, and the photos help think it through without a trip to the boat.

Frequently familiar problems come up as forum topics, and photos show your own version or similar issue.

Believe it or not, it can be difficult to remember your own boat. Where is the seventh keel bolt? How is the "T" fitting rigged? Does my quadrant have a spacer?

A photo file of the yacht today also is a record of all the changes you make.

Thanks Christian,

Will do so. I am one of many owners on this boat but am the managing/maintenance partner of the boat. Fortunately my schedule has allowed me to work at least one day a week recently onboard. I am also rebuilding a trailers sailor in my driveway. So one day a week of woodworking and trailer sailer work and one day at the marina working on the Ericson. I do have a lot of photos but not the details. I am still in the process of learning what are the details. THis is my first boat with a solid keel, inboard, more than basic electrical system. Up till now i have done mostly woodworking, rigging and some electrical work. I have been spending time on the Atomic 4 website learning about the engine.

I like the idea of a library. My day on the boat is usually followed by a week of researching online on how to tackle my next challenge on the boat at the next visit. Lots of detailed photos would indeed help my research.

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Stuffing Box Picture

Thanks Christian,

Will do so. I am one of many owners on this boat but am the managing/maintenance partner of the boat. Fortunately my schedule has allowed me to work at least one day a week recently onboard. I am also rebuilding a trailers sailor in my driveway. So one day a week of woodworking and trailer sailer work and one day at the marina working on the Ericson. I do have a lot of photos but not the details. I am still in the process of learning what are the details. THis is my first boat with a solid keel, inboard, more than basic electrical system. Up till now i have done mostly woodworking, rigging and some electrical work. I have been spending time on the Atomic 4 website learning about the engine.

I like the idea of a library. My day on the boat is usually followed by a week of researching online on how to tackle my next challenge on the boat at the next visit. Lots of detailed photos would indeed help my research.

I texted this picture to all my friends and family. I was very happy when I got this busted open, it was the third weekend of trying (E32-III stuffing box, the area is cleaned up now too):

 

[TakeFive]

So, the more I look at the photo you provided, photobug, the more I am concerned about the condition of the rubber hose. It appears to me that perhaps this might have experienced some severe heating. If you look at the area where the arrow points to in the photo below, you will see what I mean. I think you may want to have a close look at the condition of it. It might be time to replace this. These need to be replaced every now and then anyhow. Just a thought.

I noticed the same thing. Clamps look corroded as well. At next haul out the shaft should be pulled and everything should be replaced.
Not something I would do in the water. If owner is extremely lucky, a turn on the packing nut will stop the leak.
Turn it too much and you can add to your troubles. I'd just put up with the leak until haul out.

 

[photobug]

So, the more I look at the photo you provided, photobug, the more I am concerned about the condition of the rubber hose. It appears to me that perhaps this might have experienced some severe heating. If you look at the area where the arrow points to in the photo below, you will see what I mean. I think you may want to have a close look at the condition of it. It might be time to replace this. These need to be replaced every now and then anyhow. Just a thought.

Thanks,
Feel free to point out anything not right you guys see. I am assuming everything done on this boat was done wrong.

This boat has many partners and many other partners over the years. All the work I have seen was done poorly or really wrong. Example I had to re-do the bilge pump wiring the previous skilled electrician/owner had used a high end crimp fitting but a cheap tool to crimp it. Instead of heat shrinking the ends he squirted silicone into the openings of crimp unit.

Now as to replacing this rubber hose. Does this need to happen out of the water? never mind TakeFive answered this.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Now as to replacing this rubber hose. Does this need to happen out of the water? never mind TakeFive answered this.

The shaft has to come out to replace the stuffing box hose. This has to be done with the boat out of the water, as has been mentioned.

I would add that you should replace this with a hose made specifically for stuffing boxes and not something like exhaust hose. The wall thickness of stuffing box hose is considerably more than standard hose. Take a look at this site: http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/hose-clamps/packingbox-hose

Depending upon the condition of your stuffing box, you may want to replace it also at this time. The main expense will be the haul out itself and probably the most difficult part of the job will be removing the shaft from the transmission coupling. Replacing the hose and perhaps the stuffing box are easy once the shaft is out. So I would say that if your stuffing box is at all buggered up, go ahead and replace it and be done with it.

Oh, and while you are at it, take a look at the condition of your cutless bearing. Generally speaking, those are easier to change with the shaft removed. (There is a tool, though, that allows you to remove/replace the bearing with the shaft in place.)

 

[photobug]

Here's an update to this. Eventually one of the partners was able to get the nuts tightened.

We are now looking at bottom painting the boat and at the time replace the rubber hose portion of this gland.

According to the prices it at http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/h...ackingbox-hose It is $26 to replace the hose and $75 for a new packing gland. For $125 I could replace both the packing gland and cutlass bearing. Since I am looking at $500+ in labor to pull the shaft does it make sense to replace both these at this time?

When pulling the prop shaft on E32-2 does the rudder get in the way? Because if it does I will have to pull the rudder also and this whole thing gets a lot more expensive.

I am hoping there are no issues with blisters, keel joint or rudder on haul out.

 

[Loren Beach]

Hoses and Shafts and Bearings, oh my

Here's an update to this. Eventually one of the partners was able to get the nuts tightened.

We are now looking at bottom painting the boat and at the time replace the rubber hose portion of this gland.

According to the prices it at http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/h...ackingbox-hose It is $26 to replace the hose and $75 for a new packing gland. For $125 I could replace both the packing gland and cutlass bearing. Since I am looking at $500+ in labor to pull the shaft does it make sense to replace both these at this time?

When pulling the prop shaft on E32-2 does the rudder get in the way? Because if it does I will have to pull the rudder also and this whole thing gets a lot more expensive.

I am hoping there are no issues with blisters, keel joint or rudder on haul out.

Sounds like boat partnerships have their plusses and minuses!

While the boat is out, I too would replace both the stuffing box hose and the cutlass bearing, if it's been a long time or if in any doubt about them. You can easily check the cutlass bearing by just attempting to move the shaft from side to side. That's also the time to carefully inspect the shaft for wear where it runs through the cutlass and through the stuffing. To add insult to injury, as it were, it's not too unusual to find that force will be required to separate the shaft from the coupler. We replaced the old coupler with a "split coupling" last time around, matter of fact.

And then, since labor to haul the boat and remove that shaft is the largest part of this whole procedure, at least consider installing a PSS Shaft Seal. I did that in about '95, and have replaced one bellows at about ten year point. It's nice to have a dry bilge. Modern packing materials are so good at keeping water out and still letting the shaft run cool, that you may not need/want to make this change, so it's not the 'no brainer' it once was.

There has been some past discussion here about which models seem to required that the rudder be pulled in order to back the shaft out. Other owners will have to chime in. I do know that on some boat makes the clearance for the shaft to juuuust sneak by the rudder is so close that yards sometimes remove the cutlass with their "special tool" and that provides just enough sideways movement to get that shaft out.

OTOH, if it's been a really long time since a really good haul out, and it looks like the rudder should be dropped.... do so and have a close-up look at the interface of the shaft and rudder body. i.e. really check it out.
If there's much slop perhaps some shimming is called for in the reinstall.


Anyhow, keep us posted. Pictures are nice.

Regards,
Loren

 

[Alan Gomes]

While the boat is out, I too would replace both the stuffing box hose and the cutlass bearing, if it's been a long time or if in any doubt about them. You can easily check the cutlass bearing by just attempting to move the shaft from side to side. That's also the time to carefully inspect the shaft for wear where it runs through the cutlass and through the stuffing. To add insult to injury, as it were, it's not too unusual to find that force will be required to separate the shaft from the coupler. We replaced the old coupler with a "split coupling" last time around, matter of fact.

Yup, Loren is absolutely correct. But let me add this: If the shaft does not want to come out of the coupling at the transmission, WHATEVER YOU DO, do not let the yard use a slide hammer to smack the shaft out! Some yards have been known to do this and that is an excellent way to destroy your transmission! If need be, carefully cut the coupling off the shaft. Replacing it with a split coupler, as Loren did, is a great idea in case it ever has to come apart again.

 

[photobug]

Sounds like boat partnerships have their plusses and minuses!

More minuses at least as far as that guy. His fix lasted a month. It would have been fixed right before but he took the boat out without telling me sailing the day I had a mechanic lined up to fix it the first time.

The true joy of a partnership is when the boat has to be pulled out of the water and have money thrown at it. Only a fraction of the money is mine.