Ericson 32 leaking stuffing box?

[goldenstate]

Bumping an old thread.

I'm replacing the prop shaft packing material in my 32-200. I have a one inch diameter prop shaft.

The owner's manuals (for the 34-2 and the 32-3) call for 1/8" flax packing. I bought some 1/8" flax packing.

I pulled out my old packing yesterday (with no small effort) and found three wraps of what has to be at least 1/4" flax.




What's the wise call here?

Follow the owner's manual with 1/8"?
Replace what I found at 1/4"?
Split the difference and buy some 3/16"?

The 1/4" was really wedged (especially the top/innermost wrap).
However, I suspect 1/8" will be too loose/sloppy.

 

[Rocinante33]

My 1” shaft and packing gland seems to like 3/16” yes, it really gets crammed in there by the nut tightening it into place.

 

[Rocinante33]

Btw if anyone needs to replace their 1” stuffing box, this is the place to do it. Good service, original Ericsson supplier, afaik. Marine Hardware in Seattle.

Welcome to Marine Hardware

www.marinehardware.com

Buck Algonquin doesn’t supply 1 5/8” hose boxes

 

[bigd14]

Marine Hardware also has patterns for casting struts for most of the Ericson models. I got my replacement strut there. Great people to work with.

 

[goldenstate]

My 1” shaft and packing gland seems to like 3/16” yes, it really gets crammed in there by the nut tightening it into place.

Thank you Keith! I just wanted some validation from one happy customer.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Interestingly, I just changed out my packing two days ago....

Anyway, when it comes to things like this, assume nothing. Don't waste you time reading the owner's manual. I will say that 1/8" sounds improbably small if you have 1" shaft, but that depends on the particular stuffing box in question. I use 1/8" packing but the shaft on my boat is 3/4". It's a baby engine with a baby stuffing box.

The best thing to do, until you determine for certain the packing size, is to purchase a couple of different sizes to see how they fit.

So how should the packing fit? It should not be floppy loose but you should not have to beat it in, either. It should fit snugly but not be crazy tight. I know that's a bit subjective, though I'm not sure of a better way to describe it. Realize that your old packing may be swollen and deformed, so measuring it could be misleading.

You've already gotten the old packing out, and that is in many ways the worst part of the job. What I find works best is a small diameter straight awl. I come in at an angle to the shaft, which is necessary because if you come in above and parallel to the shaft, the stuffing box hose is going to get in the way of the handle on the awl. So, coming in from the side, I press in the awl until it penetrates the packing and then push the awl to the side so that the end of the packing comes out of the nut. Then I hold that end and rotate the packing nut so that the packing unwinds and comes easily out of the nut. I hope this makes sense.

To replace with new: I add one ring at a time, screwing down the nut to press the ring to the front of the nut. Then I unscrew it and add the next ring, and then the next for a total of three. I stagger the cuts as best I can, though it's anyone's guess as to where the cuts really wind up after pressing them in as I've just described.

I'm using the GoreTex "virtually dripless" packing. The ideal adjustment, if you can get it, is for it to weep slightly when the shaft is rotating and to not drip when the engine is off. That's ideal, but if it drips occasionally even when the engine is off that's no big deal. Don't make it overly tight, though, as it might run too hot.

I've had some times where getting out the old packing was a bear, but when I did it on Monday the job went very smoothly for some reason. Maybe that means the next boat job is going to go horribly awry, so as to bring the universe back into equilibrium. It took me about 45 minutes to cut the rings, remove the old packing, and then insert the new ones. Then I ran the engine for a bit to play with the adjustment.

By the way: On my boat, at least, there was no issue whatever with doing this in the water. I have a tiny automatic bilge pump but it easily kept up with the flow.

 

[KS Dave]

To affirm what others have said, the 'Packing Gland Adjustment Guide' posted in the 'Resources' section says this:

Ericson Document - Packing Gland Adjustment Guide

Packing Gland Adjustment Guide

ericsonyachts.org

 

[goldenstate]

To affirm what others have said, the 'Packing Gland Adjustment Guide' posted in the 'Resources' section says this:
View attachment 37923

Ericson Document - Packing Gland Adjustment Guide

Packing Gland Adjustment Guide

ericsonyachts.org

Thanks Dave! Great reference. I didn't know that document was available.

 

[Kenneth K]

FYI, I had a similar issue when repacking the rudder stuffing box. The manual says 1/4" flax, but the old stuff was obviously 5/16, so that's what we replaced it with.

 

[KS Dave]

There's a guide here for that, too. Is this different from what your manual said, Ken?

Ericson Document - Rudder Stuffing Box Guide

Rudder Stuffing Box Guide

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Kenneth K]

Yep, that's what the manual says:




Here's what it looked like for real with 5/16" flax:

 

[Rocinante33]

Tom (and all you random packers in Ericson universe),

A cool trick when repacking the prop shaft gland is to get a short (~2 1/2” is good) piece of PVC pipe of the correct ID to fit you prop shaft (1 1/4” works for me for my 1” shaft ???) and cut it lengthwise so that you remove about 120 degrees of the circumference. You are left with a piece of pvc which will snap over the prop shaft. Then as you put each ring of packing material in, snap the pvc “tool” onto the shaft and use it to push the material up into place and seat it into the packing gland. You can even tap the pvc in to snug the packing in place. Then repeat with the next ring of packing until done.

works well for me.

 

[goldenstate]

Yep, that's what the manual says:

View attachment 37927
View attachment 37928

Here's what it looked like for real with 5/16" flax:

View attachment 37929

Jeez Ken, with all of this clear information you're really going to make me feel guilty about trying to ignore the replacement of my rudder flax too...

 

[Christian Williams]

If you drop the rudder, by all means replace the rudder packing gland flax.

But short of that, packing the rudder tube full of grease is often all that's required. I concluded that the rudder gland isn't in the same class as a stuffing box, because the typical Ericson rudder-post gland isn't designed to compress the flax. When repacked, it just holds the flax in place so as to seal off the top of the rubber tube. It can't be progressively "tightened" the way a stuffing box can.

To beat this to death, since it once beat me nearly to death, if there's water spurting out from the rudder tube under some conditions, it may be that the entire gland has broken free of the tube, which has happened to a few of us. Yeah, that can be fixed. But otherwise, if the gland is just leaking, grease administered through the tube Zerk can be the simple answer. (And a frozen or rusted out Zerk indicates it has not been greased in many a year)

 

[goldenstate]

If you drop the rudder, by all means replace the rudder packing gland flax.

But short of that, packing the rudder tube full of grease is often all that's required. I concluded that the rudder gland isn't in the same class as a stuffing box, because the typical Ericson rudder-post gland isn't designed to compress the flax. When repacked, it just holds the flax in place so as to seal off the top of the rubber tube. It can't be progressively "tightened" the way a stuffing box can.

To beat this to death, since it once beat me nearly to death, if there's water spurting out from the rudder tube under some conditions, it may be that the entire gland has broken free of the tube, which has happened to a few of us. Yeah, that can be fixed. But otherwise, if the gland is just leaking, grease administered through the tube Zerk can be the simple answer. (And a frozen or rusted out Zerk indicates it has not been greased in many a year)

Christian: Did the zerk you installed penetrate the bronze sleeve or just the upper fiberglass sleeve?

 

[Christian Williams]

Upper sleeve, to provide path to gland. Pix in this blog.

 

[goldenstate]

Yep, that's what the manual says:

View attachment 37927
View attachment 37928

Here's what it looked like for real with 5/16" flax:

View attachment 37929

Ken - When you replaced your rudder packing gland, did you:

First insert the new packing into the stuffing box and then slide the rudder post back into place
-or-
Put the rudder post back in, then fiddle the packing up and in around the shaft and tighten the stuffing box over it

I think it will be a snug fit and it would be easy to knock the flax out of alignment if I pack the box first.
I guess if I raise the rudder little by little with a hydraulic floor jack, I could get a couple of inches of the post exposed and then snug the box with already-inserted packing around the post.

 

[racushman]

Bumping an old thread.

I'm replacing the prop shaft packing material in my 32-200. I have a one inch diameter prop shaft.

The owner's manuals (for the 34-2 and the 32-3) call for 1/8" flax packing. I bought some 1/8" flax packing.

I pulled out my old packing yesterday (with no small effort) and found three wraps of what has to be at least 1/4" flax.

Tom,

My experience is also that 3/16" flax for 1" shaft packing glands is correct.

While you are in there though... and while the boat is still out of the water I assume... take a look at the age and condition of the hose that connects the stuffing box to the boat. Unless you sure it has been recently replaced, I would strongly recommend replacing it. Also, there is a very particular type of hose sold by Buck Algonquin for this application that should be used (not just wire reinforced exhaust hose). I say this because if this hose fails, you sink. Not something you want to think about on your way to Hawaii.

FWIW I've also found that if you use the PTFE flax like you are planning to... and pack it carefully... you can effectively tighten the gland until it just barely stops dripping and run it like that as a "poor man's dripless" shaft seal. I had another boat that I did this with for 20 years and it worked fine. Just pay attention to the temp of the gland while you are getting it adjusted. It should be warm, but not hot to the touch. Initially it will be warmer while the flax seats, and then it runs cooler after a couple hours. I actually think this is a better solution than the new dripless seals because there is little to fail in the old style glands. (full disclosure, my O34 has the PSS, but if the boat didn't come with it I would have stuck with the old style like you have).

Also if they end up pulling the shaft, have them replace the cutlass bearing in the strut. Do these things and you won't have to think about it again for 10 years.

Rob

 

[Alan Gomes]

Tom (and all you random packers in Ericson universe),

A cool trick when repacking the prop shaft gland is to get a short (~2 1/2” is good) piece of PVC pipe of the correct ID to fit you prop shaft (1 1/4” works for me for my 1” shaft ???) and cut it lengthwise so that you remove about 120 degrees of the circumference. You are left with a piece of pvc which will snap over the prop shaft. Then as you put each ring of packing material in, snap the pvc “tool” onto the shaft and use it to push the material up into place and seat it into the packing gland. You can even tap the pvc in to snug the packing in place. Then repeat with the next ring of packing until done.

works well for me.

I tried this technique, which I recall having seen on MaineSail's excellent site several years back. It didn't find that it worked well for me. It could be because I only have about 1.5" of exposed shaft with which to work. Or maybe it was just me. It certainly sounded like a good idea worth trying, and apparently it works well for some people.

I've had no problems just screwing in each ring, one at a time, by using the nut itself. But the PVC thing is a cheap and easy idea to try, and maybe works better where the clearances aren't so tight. Or, maybe it was just my technique. It's a <$1 experiment and always worth a try!

 

[Kenneth K]

Ken - When you replaced your rudder packing gland, did you:

First insert the new packing into the stuffing box and then slide the rudder post back into place...

Yep, I did it (the yard did) when the rudder was out. Also had cutlass bearing replaced and prop shaft shortened 2".

Posts about it here:

Repacking Rudder Stuffing Box

Anyone ever re-done their rudder stuffing box packing? I had never seen one up close before last night, but since my rudder is off, I got a good look at mine. The 3 rings of flax add up to about 7/8" of width so I'm guessing it's 3 layers of 5/16" or 3/8" wide flax that's been...

ericsonyachts.org

Ericson 35-3 rudder post leak

Hello everyone, I woke up to a considerable amount of water in my bilge this morning. I tracked it down to the bottom zerk fitting on my rudder post leaking. I had my boat hauled out this summer, and there was very little play in my rudder, and my steering has been smooth as butter. I elected...

ericsonyachts.org