Ericson 41 Florida - Norway

[PDX]

Here is a link to a quick primer on teak restoration by Don Casey:

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/29.htm

You definitely need to clean the teak before sanding and then varnishing. You mention having used a "restorer." If that is a cleaner and you are happy with it, fine. If not, Casey's link provides info on how to mix up a cleaner.

Varnish offers the most teak protection. Whether it gives the wood a plastic look is I guess a matter of taste.

Varnishing your toe rails is going to be a problem so long as you have moisture getting into the rails. It will wick up to the surface and then lift off the varnish. I have seen some claims that a product called "Cetol" is water vapor permeable. I have no first hand experience with Cetol and haven't really researched it but you might want to look into it.

 

[Sven]

Careful with Cetol if you ever want to be able to sell.

Regular Cetol lasts almost forever but its orange color is objectionable to some and hides the teak grain. The orange supposedly also seeps into the wood so you have to sand wood off too if you decide it was a mistake.

There is a new "clear" Cetol on the market but I don't know if it lasts as long as the orange kind or varnish.

I forgot to mention in the last post that you don't use epoxy outside for the top coats because it is not UV resistant. You always put a varnish or other coat on top of epoxy.



-Sven

 

[Loren Beach]

Cetol experiences

I have used both the original Cetol and the newer Cetol Light.
The original leaves a very orange-y look to the surface, IMHO.
As to longevity, it can go a couple of seasons easily.
I changed to the "Light" version several years ago to let the natural teak color show better. I do like it.

Have not tried the "clear". I understand that the original formula used a suspension of iron oxide particles in it to block the UV. Could be an urban myth. Anyone know for sure?

One difference between this stuff and varnish is that the surviving surface seems harder and more difficult to remove when the time comes to remove it to refinish. I use 80 grit on a palm sander and then smooth it with some 150.

Like varnish, it does get moisture under it from any interface with the deck or where it butts up against hardware.

No great imparting of "knowledge" here, but I can assure you all that when or if we ever have to replace our attractive teak had rails, it will be with SS!


LB

 

[Glyn Judson]

Cetol warning.

Svein, Following what Sven and Loren observed, Cetol imparts an orange cast and if applied too thickly or from too many coats, almost hides the look of the wood beneath. It's sort of like thin deck paint if you're familiar with that. Add to that, it's miserable to remove. When I bought our boat a previous owner or owners (we are the fifth to own) used it as a quick way to cover the exterior teak and I wanted nothing to do with it. I literally spent thousands of dollars paying to have it sanded off, a near two week ordeal, before the teak was ready for varnish. Never again in this boy's lifetime will my boat even get close to a can of Cetol. Cheers, Glyn

 

[sveinutne]

This is a fantastic forum,
People here are so friendly and helpful. Now I feel I know a lot more about what to do.
The clear Cetol might be something to look for, but in Norway the sun is not so hard on the teak, so maybe normal varnish will hold a year. In the cockpit, I have already oiled the teak, but that was last fall, so now it needs some attention again. I think I will just sand it light and varnish it, but I will wait till I have finished the sanding of the fiberglass, so it will stay fine when it is finished.
On the toe rail, I will put a layer of epoxy and then varnish. I am building a bowsprit in teak, and it is glued together of many small 1/2” x 1” pieces of teak. On this I put epoxy as a coating, and it looked OK. But it might not be UV resistant, so I will varnish it before it will see sunlight.

 

[Special K]

Cetol Natural Teak

I used the Cetol Natural Teak, followed by the Cetol gloss on the hand rails and the hatch boards last year. One year in, and I am very happy with the results. Practical Sailor just did a favorable review as well. I will take some pictures and post.

 

[Mort Fligelman]

"in Norway the sun is not so hard on the teak,"

Svein:

For many years in the Northern climbs of Lake Michigan I tried all of the aforementioned procedures...... I reasoned that since the boat was only uncovered from Mid May to Mid October, then covered again, If I simply kept the teak cleaned with a foaming amonia (if it was not available, one ounce of dishwashing detergent to a quart of amonia) applied with a fine Scotchbrite pad kept it looking clean and neat the majority of the time.....

You probably have a shorter season so my thinking might just be of use....

For what it's worth

Regards

Mort

 

[Emerald]

Hi,

be very careful if you decide to varnish over epoxy on old teak. If the teak is not fully dry, or can suck up water from underneath, I'm afraid the epoxy and varnish will lift over time. Regarding your new work on the bowsprit, I think you are in much better shape, since it sounds like you have been able to encapsulate the new teak in epoxy when you built it. I think the problem is more with old wood that has absorbed moisture or if you can not completely encapsulate it. You will need to stay on top of any nicks in the finish and seal them to keep water out. You might find this older thread of interest:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=8656&highlight=epoxy+varnish

I personally feel like keeping teak looking great is a full time job, but well worth the effort. Just be happy you don't have bronze port lights (like the E31 has) to think about polishing bright

 

[sveinutne]

Glyn Judson send me some pictures of a nice bowsprit, I thank a lot for all the nice pictures, but then when I look at my boat, it is all a different league. I cannot even get close to this. It will be interesting to see how good I can get the toe rail you see in the picture below. I tested the fit of the unfinished bowsprit today, and hope to glue on the missing parts later today. If I am lucky we might get plus 10 degrees tomorrow, and then I might be able to glue it to the boat. It will also be bolted down, and there will be a steel plate underneath with a rod to the steel plate in the bow.

 

[CaptDan]

The original leaves a very orange-y look to the surface, IMHO.
As to longevity, it can go a couple of seasons easily.
I changed to the "Light" version several years ago to let the natural teak color show better. I do like it.

I started using the 'Natural Teak' formula three years ago. Haven't looked back. Though it may not be as rich and deep as Epiphanes, it's very attractive in its own right and has far less of that infamous Cetol orange cast. I've managed three seasons on my coamings and handrails, with only a few repairs and annual spring top coat of the Gloss product.

A LOT less maintenance than anything I've tried so far, and I've tried a lot of different things.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

 

[sveinutne]

I started early this morning, and sanded the bowsprit. As you can see on the picture we still got some snow. Melted snow and sawdust from teak makes a real mess. When my wife got up the terrace looked like a mess, and I was making a lot of noice. Instead of complaining she asked if I wanted some coffee and some chocolate with orange taste. Then I realized that life was not so bad.
Did some testing and made some final adjustment and sanded the bowsprit before putting on a layer of epoxy. Teak looks so much better with a layer of epoxy or varnish.
Now I will let it set for 4 hours before I try to glue it in the bow.

 

[Sven]

Looks really nice !

Are you using it for anchor roller support or are you also going to use it to attach an asymmetric spinnaker ?

That looks like big gorgeous pieces of teak. Must have cost a fortune. I almost hyperventilate whenever I start a new cut because I see the dollars shredding before my eyes

We'll have to start a new discussion thread so you can tell me about where to cruise the Norwegian fjords and how (are they as deep as they look ?).



-Sven

 

[sveinutne]

Hi Sven
It is only for anchor roller and support roller. The teak is made of 32x10x2000mm
http://www.biltema.no/no/Bat/Teak/List-og-Spiler/Teaklist/
It cost NOK 100 or about USD17 but you need a lot of it, so it is expensive, but when you add all the hours you have to put in, I wonder what it would cost if you should buy it finished. But I think it is something special when you make it yourself. It might not be as nice as something factory made, but you have made it yourself, and that makes it priceless in a way.
My plane is to get her on water in the end of July and sail it during the vacation in August, but we will see. I have already moved that date one season, so I might have to do it again.
Than I can tell you more about the fjords, up till now I have only sailed in Trondheim fjord and Oslo fjord, but I hope it soon will be a lot more.

 

[sveinutne]

Hi Sven
I have been so busy, so I have not looked at other thread in EricsonYachts before now. Then I found your posts about Senta II. What a buty, and you have started a around the world trip. it is fantastic. I will follow you on.

http://www.grenander.com/


Thanks
Svein

 

[sveinutne]

I have been recommended to use a 50/50 mix of Muriatic acid and water to clean old bronze and brass that is green and need to be worked on. I have only used sandblasting before, but that ruin the smut surface, so it need to be polished, and it is a lot of work.
If some got some experience with this I would like to know. From Wikipedia I find that Muriatic acid is 20-30% HCl, and the rest water. So a 50/50 mix of Muriatic acid and water should be the same as 10-15% HCl and 85-90% water?

 

[sveinutne]

We have HCl at work, but I read true the data on handling this acid, and it is not childs play. I think I need to buy some more protective gears before I even will think about using it. If someone here got some experience with it, I would like to know before I dive into this.

 

[PDX]

My experience with muriatic acid was using it to etch stone. It is definitely nasty stuff. Do you really need something that aggressive? Have you tried boiling the bronze fitting in TSP?

 

[sveinutne]

Wow, knowledge is power. I have just tried the HCl (Muriatic) with 50% water. It is fantastic. It changes the green color and turn the bronze back to it natural gold like color in minutes. I did not sandblast the frames and now I know how to make them look good. This is fantastic, but yes it is nasty stuff and you need to use protections and wash off with water when done. I will show some picture later, but I have to run to a party I am already late for. Bye for now.

 

[sveinutne]

My wife needed some minuet to get ready, so I have time to post this pictures showing before and after 2 minutes of brushing. The problem is that the parts are so full of oil and grease, and the acid does not remove this oil. So I think I need to clean it for dirt and then give it a second wash in acid.
Glyn, thank you so much for this idea with acid, I also got your package today. That was very fast.

 

[Emerald]

At risk, I can't help but make the observation that it doesn't matter where in the world you are, but wives/girlfriends seem to always take a few more minutes (at great benefit to ourselves)

You will also find the muriatic (HCl) solution is good to flush out the salt and mineral deposits in the engine block if sea water cooled. You should do this in the water where you can then run the engine with a good supply of seawater to flush out the acid. Of course, if your engine is fresh water cooled, this is not the same issue (I'd take my heat exchanger on a fresh water engine to a radiator shop instead of flushing this way with acid).