Furling line clutch/cleat?

[Phr3d]

Harken 7402 ratchet carbo block on the pushpit and we use a standard cleat mounted on the top of the cockpit combing.

Hello folks-

I just installed a new furling line... is a lot smoother/more slippery, and probably a bit narrower

When I went to a slimmer line (173% drifter needed more on the drum), I changed to the same Harken 7402 rachet block Nick uses on the pushpit just aft of the cleat. It takes away the effort of holding the line and makes cleating much easier.

I also changed to the "outside" style 7404 blocks (like John?)

thru Harken stantion blocks

(as they were recommended in the Harken catalog along with the rachet block) and I was really looking into reducing effort. Furling has stopped being any kind of issue.

 

[phildogginit]

I'm considering replacing the furling line cam cleat on my lower deck with a single inline rope clutch, because it's difficult to lock the line off when it's under load. Has anyone done this or planned it or have experience with it? (e34-2).

 

[Christian Williams]

I would be afraid that the clutch would foul at any kink in the line and be generally "one more thing."

You might consider a cam cleat like this one, with a stanchion mount, which allows a good and firm disengagement, or insertion, of the line into the cams.

In extreme conditions, when a runaway unfurling genoa would be an issue, I cleat the furler line tail as a backup (with some slack between cleat and cam cleat.) It's nice to know, when being thrown around the cockpit at night, that if you mishandle the furler line it won't run out catastropically).

 

[phildogginit]

I would be afraid that the clutch would foul at any kink in the sheet and be generally "one more thing."

yes and a commitment to drill more holes in the boat.

You might consider a cam cleat like this one, with a stanchion mount, which allows a good and firm disengagement, or insertion, of the line into the cams.
View attachment 55162

I have an unused cam cleat sitting in a box... i'll try it

 

[N.A.]

I use a clutch (the Garhauer linked below), which attaches (no holes to be drilled!) to the outer jib/genoa track on my E350 (basically an E34-2). Like anything else track-mounted, you can slide it to different positions.

It replaces a kulge that a prior owner did with a different clutch. I liked the general approach enough to repeat it with a properly mounted clutch.

Christian is right that a kink in the furling line can hang it up, but this has happened to me maybe twice in 5 years; not something that seems to be a real issue. Of course, I tend to flake the line down before unfurling, so maybe that's why it almost never happens (the bigger issue, when I don't do that, is a big tangle of improperly uncoiled line hanging at my hand (I have a hand on the line pre-clutch)... but that would affect even the ratchet-blocks, etc.

I have a turning block (stanchion mount) after the clutch to route the line to the winch. It's not optimally placed right now (new addition; used to just have the clutch), and so I am likely to move them both back a bit. along the rail. But I've been happy with the clutch.

I have been less happy with the ease of furling the foresail when there's wind -- it just almost never works for me without the winch, and a new furler (from Harken Mk IV Unit 1 to the next size up Schaefer) has not fixed the issue. I am experimenting with halyard tension now... but do not want to leave the jib luff under strain. Anyway, somehow this works for everyone else -- Christian seems to be able to do it by hand with a 120% in 25 kts. I have no idea how that works -- I'm lucky if I can do it by hand in 10 kts (apparent, downwind and blanketed by the main; upwind it'd have to be even less). I definitely get why some serious sailors prefer hank-on jibs. But none of that is about securing the furling line.

Link: https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop...ope-clutches/track-car-rope-clutch-11-11-oc2/

 

[Christian Williams]

For what it's worth, I just head up a little and let the genoa luff, or relieve tension on the sheet. I doubt many people try to furl a jib while full and by--that's hard on the mechanism.

 

[Loren Beach]

I have been less happy with the ease of furling the foresail when there's wind -- it just almost never works for me without the winch, and a new furler (from Harken Mk IV Unit 1 to the next size up Schaefer) has not fixed the issue. I am experimenting with halyard tension now... but do not want to leave the jib luff under strain.

FWIW, I was told by a rigger to try to have the furling foil straighter for furling, i.e. apply some backstay tension. This seems to work for us, although it's still better to ease the sheet enough not to have too much resistance. I also ease the halyard at the dock, and add more halyard tension when sailing.
Back at the slip we always reduce the pressure from 1K + to maybe a couple hundred #. I am not comfortable with having a slack furled jib oscillating in the breeze at the dock.

 

[N.A.]

I tried Christian's 'heading up' approach today, but... with my 130% in 16 kts, it was flogging and there was enough pressure the winch was still required.

I have just re-routed the line to reduce drag / friction, so maybe that will help next time. But Christian, I know you use a 120% to/from Hawaii... and I doubt you head up to furl that when the wind picks up, just due to the inconvenience from the waves. But I am 2/3 your age and for the life of me I cannot manage this by hand, except in near-calm (goes for my 90% too). Ruling out bites by radioactive spiders in your youth, I figure there has to be something I'm still doing incorrectly.

Other than halyard tension (Loren, I don't have a backstay adjuster) and McLube for the bearings on the blocks routing the furling line, I am not sure what else I could do. Yet nobody else reports this problem..

 

[Captain Pete]

I tried Christian's 'heading up' approach today, but... with my 130% in 16 kts, it was flogging and there was enough pressure the winch was still required.

I have just re-routed the line to reduce drag / friction, so maybe that will help next time. But Christian, I know you use a 120% to/from Hawaii... and I doubt you head up to furl that when the wind picks up, just due to the inconvenience from the waves. But I am 2/3 your age and for the life of me I cannot manage this by hand, except in near-calm (goes for my 90% too). Ruling out bites by radioactive spiders in your youth, I figure there has to be something I'm still doing incorrectly.

Other than halyard tension (Loren, I don't have a backstay adjuster) and McLube for the bearings on the blocks routing the furling line, I am not sure what else I could do. Yet nobody else reports this problem..

I generally try to bear off so the genoa is blanketed by the main a bit, easing the pressure on the sail. This works for me even in heavy air and with my previous boat with a big headsail. It avoids the flogging with frantic noise and still lots of pressure on the sail when you head up. On my 32-3 it came with a ratcheting block, not sure what kind, but it sure makes pulling the furling line in a much easier task as the line generally doesnt slip.

 

[sdwnav]

I tried Christian's 'heading up' approach today, but... with my 130% in 16 kts, it was flogging and there was enough pressure the winch was still required.

I have just re-routed the line to reduce drag / friction, so maybe that will help next time. But Christian, I know you use a 120% to/from Hawaii... and I doubt you head up to furl that when the wind picks up, just due to the inconvenience from the waves. But I am 2/3 your age and for the life of me I cannot manage this by hand, except in near-calm (goes for my 90% too). Ruling out bites by radioactive spiders in your youth, I figure there has to be something I'm still doing incorrectly.

Other than halyard tension (Loren, I don't have a backstay adjuster) and McLube for the bearings on the blocks routing the furling line, I am not sure what else I could do. Yet nobody else reports this problem..

I’ve found that there is still a lot of pressure in bigger winds when the sail is flogging. I’ve had better luck easing the sail until right before it luffs so that the sail is stalled with minimal pressure. You can feel this as the sheets go almost slack and see that the sail is stalled but not flogging. Furl in as much as possible, cleat the furler, then ease the sheet again and repeat. The more sail that you roll in the easier it gets.

Another thought I am having is that the furler line can have a huge amount of tension on it when sailing with a reefed headsail. Set ups with the furler line cleated on a stanchion or bending the furler line 180 deg with a block on the stanchion are imposing big loads on that thin tube. Best is to keep that as close to the deck as possible or find a different place to secure.

 

[bigd14]

I cannot manage this by hand, except in near-calm

So in calm or no wind it’s easy or does it still require some effort? Are you able to easily spin the drum by hand? I’m just wondering if something is binding in the furling mechanism, especially when it’s under load.

 

[Christian Williams]

In the slip the furler should turn fairly easily, albeit maybe with some uneven clunking.

It is true that there can;t be big slop in the forestay, and that furlers don;t like very high jib halyard tension.

But I have no backstay adjuster, so my forestay is never super tight, yet the furler turns on demand even in heavy air.

 

[Christian Williams]

Here are a few minutes of roller furler action on my boat, with attention to angle of control line from the furler. Standard stuff. My Harken furler is 40 years old.

 

[Dave G.]

Here are a few minutes of roller furler action on my boat

Of course once I clicked that link I was hooked and spent 45 wonderful minutes there. Thank you

 

[Phr3d]

The rachet block I put on the pushpit takes all the load when when pressure is on it while I am furling - so cleating is made simple. The block also allows me to pull that line with my body perpendicular to the rail (parallel to wheel). Prior to the ratchet block, it was a nightmare of poor body mechanics and cleating on an impossible-to-reach cam cleat.