FX vs Ullman sails

[gabriel]

Hi all,

Im shopping for a new main sail and have two prices so far, one from Ullman the other from FX.

FX is about half of what Ullman is charging, so I was wondering if anyone had ever bought from either company. Both are for cruising style cross-cut Dacron with the same features. Any advise or tips appreciated, this is my first time buying a sail.

Thanks!

 

[Christian Williams]

A local sailmaker, big brand or not, comes to the boat and measures, and is therefore responsible if something goes wrong.* They also give good advice, and therapy, regarding use, lifespan, materials (not easy to choose on your own) and especially design. High clew? Value of a Code Zero? Do I need third reef? They remain a sort of consultant on the boat, and a valuable relationship. For racing, reputation really matters--the winner's sails are the ones you want.

But price is price, and in my opinion, if the budget is tight and the boat a project, cheap trumps everything else. All you really want is white.

As I understand it nearly all sails are made in Asia. The difference is proprietary design, detail and service.

*Sails often arrive flawed.

 

[Loren Beach]

"Flawed".... yup.
Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I was representing a loft located in Seattle. One time i was hoisting the new main for a customer and it looked great, until.... we pulled on the leach line. It kept emerging, without stopping, until xx number of feet -all of it- was out, laying in the cockpit! Turned out that when finishing some stitching up near the head board someone drove a needle right thru it and severed the leach line.

Loft manager was embarrassed &had me ship it back fa$t and they repaired and returned it, fa$t. No other problem, and customer was quite content -- he accepted that the response to a problem was as important as the problem itself.
That sail was built/sewn in Seattle, also... back in the those days.

 

[Don Smith]

I'm a day sailor/coastal cruiser and agree with Christian's comments, but I think he omitted one important thing. The sailmaker should deliver the new sail to your boat and go with you for a half hour sail. That way if there's a minor deficiency in the new sail the sail maker can observe it in action, rather than relying on the customer's description.

Don Smith
E26, Gitana

 

[Rocinante33]

In my area, Ullman Sails has been a premium loft with excellent service and very knowledgeable. Gary Swensen may have retired (or not?), but he has been the boss there for many years and knows the product and also the boats he services. I know that Seth (our own EYO sage of sails) had spoken highly of him and his loft in the past, knowing him from back in the day when sailing/racing Ericson factory boats. I imagine that a good dose of that knowledge base still resides in that loft even if he retired. BTW His picture still is on the Ullman website as, "owner, Ullman Sails Ventura."

I don't know anything about FX sails, though.

Which sail are you buying? A main or a genoa/jib?

 

[billie williams]

In my area, Ullman Sails has been a premium loft with excellent service and very knowledgeable. Gary Swensen may have retired (or not?), but he has been the boss there for many years and knows the product and also the boats he services. I know that Seth (our own EYO sage of sails) had spoken highly of him and his loft in the past, knowing him from back in the day when sailing/racing Ericson factory boats. I imagine that a good dose of that knowledge base still resides in that loft even if he retired. BTW His picture still is on the Ullman website as, "owner, Ullman Sails Ventura."

I don't know anything about FX sails, though.

Which sail are you buying? A main or a genoa/jib?

Gary Swensen is still the boss at Ullman Sails in Ventura. He's great - his loft built our beautiful genoa a few years back and just last week they did some repairs on our old main. We will use him to build a new main this fall.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This is truly you get what you pay for , I have made a few mistakes buying low and always regretted it , I stepped it up and bought some well made Hood Sails in 1995-1996 and just replace then two years ago, they were still serviceable but at my age it was now or never to get the best out of new sails . I went with North 3di polyester . Very well made and great shape and performance.

 

[bgary]

I don't know anything about FX sails, but I've done business with Ullman for years (decades?) and I'm a big fan.

IMO, the *best* lofts are the local-and-locally-owned ones. Ballard Sails in Seattle, for example, has a great reputation for quality and service. When you call, you're talking to the people who will actually be building your sails, not just taking an order and unpacking a box from offshore a few weeks later.

At the other end of the spectrum... some of the big name-brand ('fast rags come in blue bags") seem to be uninterested in small and one-off orders. If you're buying a whole $uit of sails for a high-end racing program, you'll get their attention. On the other hand, if you're buying a single sail and it isn't a "big order", in my experience it can be hard to get them to return your calls.

Ullman is at a sweet-spot in the middle. The lofts are locally-owned and locally-run, while part of a large network that includes top-level sail design, cloth choices and such. My most recent (2017) purchase was an A2 spinnaker. After getting quotes from UK, North and a few others, I went with Ullman... primarily because they provide a great experience (walking through the choices of sailcloth, size, shape, etc), through measuring the actual boat and installing the sail when done, and have built a great reputation for service even after the check has cleared.

All things being equal, any competent loft (local or online) can buy some cloth and build a decent sail. What you're paying for, in a good local-loft deal, is a "relationship" - you're paying for people who will come to the phone, pay attention to your concerns, and take care of the details. To me.... that's worth the extra cost.

Bruce

 

[Christian Williams]

Now of course if you want sails made by humans you can visit as they're being sewn, there's always Carol Hasse and Port Townsend Sails. Superb workmanship, lots of it by hand.

I got a quote, and then couldn't swallow for a long time.

Port Townsend Sails - new sails and repair for all sailboats

 

[gabriel]

In my area, Ullman Sails has been a premium loft with excellent service and very knowledgeable. Gary Swensen may have retired (or not?), but he has been the boss there for many years and knows the product and also the boats he services. I know that Seth (our own EYO sage of sails) had spoken highly of him and his loft in the past, knowing him from back in the day when sailing/racing Ericson factory boats. I imagine that a good dose of that knowledge base still resides in that loft even if he retired. BTW His picture still is on the Ullman website as, "owner, Ullman Sails Ventura."

I don't know anything about FX sails, though.

Which sail are you buying? A main or a genoa/jib?

Thanks for the replies,

I’m looking to replace the main ASAP. Jib is in ok shape but the main is terrible and keeps tearing. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the original.

I spoke with both companies over the phone and they both seemed to use the same measurements which I also verified myself on the spars. Both sails include 1 reef point, loose footed, Cunningham crinkle insignia etc end battens.

ullman $1200 will call their loft.
FX sails $700 FOB my door tax included.
4-6 weeks lead.

I asked about colors and the the guy at FX said colored sail material is lightweight used on dinghies (so its ok on my e25 ).

 

[David Grimm]

I just purchased a 120 Genoa for my 38-200 from North Sails. The quality is remarkable as well as the fit and shape. However I paid almost 5 times as much as your top price. I have no regrets.

 

[Rocinante33]

Thanks for the replies,

I’m looking to replace the main ASAP. Jib is in ok shape but the main is terrible and keeps tearing. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the original.

I spoke with both companies over the phone and they both seemed to use the same measurements which I also verified myself on the spars. Both sails include 1 reef point, loose footed, Cunningham crinkle insignia etc end battens.

ullman $1200 will call their loft.
FX sails $700 FOB my door tax included.
4-6 weeks lead.

I asked about colors and the the guy at FX said colored sail material is lightweight used on dinghies (so its ok on my e25 ).

As far as your last comment, colored sail material used for dinghies may not be sturdy enough for your E-26. Your boat may not be the biggest Ericson, but at 5250 pounds (plus gear), it ain't no dinghy! Make sure you verify you will get a sail which is what you need and is up to the task before you order it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Please look at the Manufacture of the cloth , the weight of the cloth, the quality of the cloth or you will end up with a $700 bed sheet. The main should be 6 to 7 Oz. unless it s an exotic material

 

[bgary]

The main should be 6 to 7 Oz. unless it s an exotic material

Agreed - unlike headsails, which you can change as needed, we generally only have one mainsail, and so it has to be built for whatever conditions the boat is likely to be used in. Too light may be fine in light air, but when it blows you want it to be solidly made.

 

[Christian Williams]

Also, Dacron outlasts everything exotic. And weight, which is not desirable for racing, makes Dacron further impervious. I have a 9.1 ounce mainsail, which is so heavy it barely folds. But bulletproof.

 

[gabriel]

Please look at the Manufacture of the cloth , the weight of the cloth, the quality of the cloth or you will end up with a $700 bed sheet. The main should be 6 to 7 Oz. unless it s an exotic material

FX specs this material on their inshore series:

Challenge 5.53 oz. Premium High Modulus Dacron. Opinions?

I couldn’t find any info on what Ullman uses for their Navigator series from the web or the quote sent. I’ll call their sales guy back tomorrow.

 

[Mark F]

As far as I know Ullman Sails are made in South Africa. I have an Ullman mail on my E27 and it works fine.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Challenge 5.53 oz. Premium High Modulus Dacron. Opinions?

I looked on challenger web site and that material is for a 15-20' boat, have them quote the 7.03 oz material. You will be much happier when your not buying a another new main in 3 years, A good main that has good shape will make sailing much more enjoyable , less heel and more forward drive . My experience is flatter shape is better on my Ericson 26-2

 

[gabriel]

I looked on challenger web site and that material is for a 15-20' boat, have them quote the 7.03 oz material. You will be much happier when your not buying a another new main in 3 years, A good main that has good shape will make sailing much more enjoyable , less heel and more forward drive . My experience is flatter shape is better on my Ericson 26-2

Thanks good idea!

I think I might do that, but so far I’m leaning toward Ullman mainly because they’re local to me and if something goes wrong there’s an actual shop. FX is on the east coast.

 

[bgary]

Ullman mainly because they’re local to me

Where are you located? If on the west coast, the guys who own the Newport Beach and San Diego/Anacortes lofts are good friends of mine. Happy to make an introduction....