Hove to Speed and Direction [and Reef Considerations]

[p.gazibara]

As mentioned, jib sheet hauled tight, main eased, and she should settle right down with the tiller/wheel lashed.

We found that without the main eased Cinderella could sail right through the backed jib and get underway again. It’s also much better if you are canvased appropriately, too much sail for conditions and you can expect a bit of fore-reaching.

The speed through the water hove-to or fore-reaching is dependent on the wind speed and canvas hoisted. We found that under third reef and storm jib we still managed about 2kn hove-to off the coast of Nicaragua with papagayo winds 12kn gusting 40+. The following day in the same conditions we managed over 5kn going downwind under just the storm jib.

-p

 

[Vtonian]

We should discuss the lead of the reefing line. It needs to attach to the boom first, then up through the cringle, then back to the sheave.

The reef line starts with a (small) bowline with the line led through it, so that when tightened the loop cinches the boom.

When winched in, the reef line then pulls the clew down to the boom as well as aft.

View attachment 49880
Kenyon booms came with cars on tracks for such connections. They work, but the loop is elegant and simple. The loop works with loose-footed mainsails, and also with slugged foots. In the latter case, Moderator Guy Stevens says, the correct position of the loop needs to be found by observation, as the loop cannot position itself as it does on a loose-footed sail.

Arf! good point. The car on that reef was badly mangled and I'd just grabbed one off ebay and popped it in place where the other was, then when I was setting up the reefs at the dock the day before, I'd made a mental note to adjust when raised. But, mental notes, you know, they seem to blow away in the wind.

I'm also making check lists for everything while I learn the boat for just this reason. I'll add check the car positions, thank you.

Previous car must have been on an adventure:

 

[Christian Williams]

Both my Ericsons have had external boom tracks and those sliding reef cars. And both also have internal reef lines with sheaves at boom end.

I just don't understand the redundancy.

Those cars are what we used when booms didn't have sheaves. On small boats the reef line went through the cheek block and ran along the outside of the boom to a cleat on the boom near the mast. On larger boats, there was a winch mounted on the boom instead of a cleat. You could have "slab reefing," or roller reefing with a crank to spin the boom. Very high class and I hated it. Awkward to crank, needed a spinner at the end of the boom, and a typical sail developed a big bloomer belly when rolled. We used to toss towels in as we cranked.

The cheek block has no use with internal reefing. Is all that gear there just to be able to position the reef line?

Anyhow, the loop system is today's standard for slab reefing. These cars, for all I can see, are useless fossils and the first thing I removed from the boat. I;d have taken off the track, too, except for the line of holes it would leave behind.

 

[bigd14]

Curious, How is your clew going to be attached to the boom ? Strap ?

There is an outhaul car.

 

[Christian Williams]

If there's no car, a simple Dacron strap holds the clew down. My sailmaker provided one for the 32-3.

 

[Vtonian]

"I just don't understand the redundancy."

Pretty sure it's common practice to always have redundancy built into your sailing systems, you just never know...

 

[southofvictor]

I’ve always thought this page that looks ”added” to the owners manual was helpful. I don’t have a cunningham but still feel like I can get plenty of luff tension. The angle between the reef cringle and the end of the boom and maintaining good outhaul tension is what’s key. This is going to require trial and error to figure out how to rig, since the cut of your main and the placement of the reefs will determine the best placement for the boom loop.

What do others like to see for the angle of the line coming up from the boom? Too acute an angle and it’s pretty hard to get the last bit down tight against the boom, as can be seen in the first pic from @Vtonian. Too vertical and it might be hard to get the outhaul tension you want. How do you like to see it?

 

[Christian Williams]

That's a really old drawing. It's for a boat without internal reefing lines, and no provision for leading reef lines back to the cockpit, as is common nowadays.

A Cunningham was/is for moving the draft of the mainsail. It really would be awkward to try to use it for the reef luff. Did this boat not have a halyard winch, and need a tackle to retighten the luff? The boom shown doesn't even have the reef horns that were common even back then.

Re the angle of the reef line, I don't think there's any doubt it should be vertical. That why the cars were moveable. But the bowline-loop falls in place automatically, or can be moved there with a finger.

Those sketches were a work of art, no? Lovely to look at. I find this one really confusing.

 

[Dave G.]

There is an outhaul car.

Hmm, interesting does that have a slug that fits the rope slot or ? Do you know who makes that ?

 

[Dave G.]

Those sketches were a work of art, no?

Yes they are & the calligraphy is just superb !

 

[bigd14]

Hmm, interesting does that have a slug that fits the rope slot or ? Do you know who makes that ?

Looks like its Kenyon part #K-43009. Not needed if you use a strap around the boom (post #25).

Boom Outhaul Slides for Integral Track

Sorry to OP for thread drift...

 

[Loren Beach]

Our boat came with a bronze 'slug' slider that fits in the boom track. There is a cast loop on top of that slider, and the clew is shacked to it and the outhaul eye is attached to it with a separate shackle, Not fancy but it works fine,

 

[Vtonian]

@bigd, no worries, I love the meander.

Just got back from 2nd take with reefing. First tried adjusting the cars and the tracks are not even close to where they'd need to be for 15%/30% reef points, so took the 5 minutes to tie in bowlines, then spent 30 minutes trying to reroute the lines between stack pack zippers, lazy jacks, the bail on the top of the boom, etc, etc.
Didn't help that the the very first we did (I had crew, yay) was block the helms view while futzing around and ran her right over a crab pot set with a half mile of floating line in the middle of the harbor where there hasn't been a crab in 40 years but I digress.

Cut the pot loose, somehow kept the line off the prop and only got it wrapped once around the rudder, which after a timid slink back to the dock we freed with little convention. Take 3.

I think the horns are a bit silly as currently rigged. I've got the dog bones but the first reef falls off easily and the 2nd reef doesn't come close to the horn.

What's the simple elegant solution to tacking them down? Seems like there should be a dyneema pendant with a loop and a little bungee keeper or something. Maybe just a simple loop (one less splice) plus a keeper...?

From racing, I like the concept of being able to tighten the main from the bottom, pulling down with a cunningham rather than stretching the head trying to improve shape at the tack. But Im not racing and it seems like a lot of tackle for something that should be doable with a lashing.

Also, a cunningham alone wouldn't relieve stress on the lowest slide from the outhaul.

 

[Christian Williams]

Dog bones, my favorite topic.

You can make your own out of anything--line or webbing. Just make a loop the correct length using a square knot, and put a ring on each end using a lark's head (luggage tag) knot. If no ring handy, a couple of old snap shackles will do temporarily. Sew webbing loop for neatness when you get around to it.

When attaching dog bone to a horn, a bit of halyard tension keeps it on. Easy to do at the mast if you have a cam cleat there. And a cam cleat there will change your life.

E32-3 - Halyard Cams on the Mast, Thelonious

Cams on the mast are an easy solution to an issue created by halyards led back: how does one person work the halyard at the mast? As you may have noticed, hauling up the main on the cabin house leaves a pile of halyard at your feet. But the line...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Vtonian]

Dog bones...
You can make your own out of anything--
And a cam cleat there will change your life.

Brilliant! Simple, elegant and inexpensive, plus multiple bonus benefits on top of making an awkward task efficient.
Thanks, professor.

 

[Dave G.]

Also, a cunningham alone wouldn't relieve stress on the lowest slide from the outhaul

Curious what this exact issue is ? Presuming you are referring to the lowest luff slide or ?

 

[southofvictor]

Christian’s mast cam cleat has been a game changer since I installed it. All that’s needed to keep the ring on the horn is tension the halyard a bit after fitting it on. Then back to the cockpit to tighten it on the winch. One of the most useful simple changes I’ve made on the boat.

I‘d guess that the advent of slippery sail track systems has made the use of cunninghams a thing of the past for most cruisers. When we installed ours it cut the number of slides almost in half so tension from the masthead is a lot easier to carry all the way down the luff.

 

[Vtonian]

Curious what this exact issue is ? Presuming you are referring to the lowest luff slide or ?

Napkin engineering but I'm thinking the horns hold both downward and lateral strain on the cringle/horn connection, whereas a 3ft long cunningham mounted on the mast collar wouldn't without being routed behind some other fixture nearer the boom, putting most of the strain on the slide. For example, my ignorantly misaligned reef line, where most of the strain was pulling the clew out and very little down.

Just thinking, if reefing is for high wind, and compounded mistakes amplified the outward load, I'd rather rely on the well reinforced cringle than the slide, although I don't seem to have any pics handy of that to check.

I also have a vague memory of reading somewhere of a main ripping off a mast like tearing open a shirt, popping buttons off easily one at a time, once the tack parted.

Do you see it differently?

 

[Vtonian]

Christian’s mast cam cleat has been a game changer since I installed it. All that’s needed to keep the ring on the horn is tension the halyard a bit after fitting it on. Then back to the cockpit to tighten it on the winch. One of the most useful simple changes I’ve made on the boat.

I‘d guess that the advent of slippery sail track systems has made the use of cunninghams a thing of the past for most cruisers. When we installed ours it cut the number of slides almost in half so tension from the masthead is a lot easier to carry all the way down the luff.

Yes, it did occur to me that at the very least I should lubricate what's there. Probably hasn't been done in years.

 

[Vtonian]

...And a cam cleat there will change your life.

As I was ordering these, I ran across a comment that cam cleats won't hold dyneema. I'm thinking as this is just a temporary grasp and not a full tension hold, that probably doesn't matter. Anyone able to comment on whether this would be an issue with dyneema halyards, like it doesn't hold at all? I know on the self tailers, the dyneema always requires an extra wrap and sometimes some hand tension as well, although the clutches seem to hold it well enough.