In the middle of constructing a couple of centerboards (E-23 and E-25) incorporating encapsulated lead, I began wondering how larger encapsulated lead keels are attached to the boat. Are they supported and held onto the hull totally, primarily, or just partially by the plies of glass that sheathe them? Are keel bolts used, and if so, what part of the weight of the lead do they carry?
Keel construction
- Thread starter Bob in Va
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- construction keel
Keel format
Bob, My experience has been with only 2 types of keel formats. My E23 has a fully encapsulated lead keel that was "built in" to the hull. In other words, they built the hull around the 1100 lbs of lead so that it is fully integrated with no seams or keel bolts. The other format is to build up a keel trunk into the bottom of the hull with reinforcing laminations and sometimes a stiffening grid of stringers and crossmembers to tie the trunk to the rest of the hull. Then the keel with bolts embedded in it is bolted up to the trunk with some bedding compound in the gap. The gap is then (usually) fiberglassed and faired to the keel and trunk. Sometimes the entire keel is glassed in and sometimes it is not. Just primered and painted. My experience is that the fully integrated keel is much stronger. I have grounded my E23 several times in the shallow Great Salt Lake with only a couple of scuff marks to show for it. After one grounding with a Catalina 25 with the keel bolt configuration, some pretty serious cracks developed at the junction point between the keel and the trunk. It required grinding out the crack and tightening the bolts and then refiberglassing the keel. The trunk and bolt on keels are by far the more numerous configuration. Hope this is informative for you.
Bob, My experience has been with only 2 types of keel formats. My E23 has a fully encapsulated lead keel that was "built in" to the hull. In other words, they built the hull around the 1100 lbs of lead so that it is fully integrated with no seams or keel bolts. The other format is to build up a keel trunk into the bottom of the hull with reinforcing laminations and sometimes a stiffening grid of stringers and crossmembers to tie the trunk to the rest of the hull. Then the keel with bolts embedded in it is bolted up to the trunk with some bedding compound in the gap. The gap is then (usually) fiberglassed and faired to the keel and trunk. Sometimes the entire keel is glassed in and sometimes it is not. Just primered and painted. My experience is that the fully integrated keel is much stronger. I have grounded my E23 several times in the shallow Great Salt Lake with only a couple of scuff marks to show for it. After one grounding with a Catalina 25 with the keel bolt configuration, some pretty serious cracks developed at the junction point between the keel and the trunk. It required grinding out the crack and tightening the bolts and then refiberglassing the keel. The trunk and bolt on keels are by far the more numerous configuration. Hope this is informative for you.
Building the lead mine
As far as encapsulated keels go in the early Ericsons (pre tfg) the
lead casting was lowered into the completed hull while still in the mold
via overhead crane. After being deposited in the keel recess, it was then
glassed over. There are no keel bolts.
Martin
E31C
As far as encapsulated keels go in the early Ericsons (pre tfg) the
lead casting was lowered into the completed hull while still in the mold
via overhead crane. After being deposited in the keel recess, it was then
glassed over. There are no keel bolts.
Martin
E31C
briangsmith
Member II
keel on a '78 E-25??
not sure what 'pre TGF' means- (newbie here)
i'm looking at a ericson 25 (not plus) for sale-
1978- what would be my keel configuration/
means of attachment??
thnx,
bgs
not sure what 'pre TGF' means- (newbie here)
i'm looking at a ericson 25 (not plus) for sale-
1978- what would be my keel configuration/
means of attachment??
thnx,
bgs
Newbie,
TFG stands for triaxial force grid. This was a structural grid first designed
by David Pedrick and implemented in Ericsons in the 80's. This provided
for a stiffer hull while reducing laminate schedules and therefore weight.
Most "early vintage" Ericson models had encapulated keels.
Martin
E31C
TFG stands for triaxial force grid. This was a structural grid first designed
by David Pedrick and implemented in Ericsons in the 80's. This provided
for a stiffer hull while reducing laminate schedules and therefore weight.
Most "early vintage" Ericson models had encapulated keels.
Martin
E31C
briangsmith
Member II
let me just reconfirm that then...
...i am not going to have access to keel bolts on
this E25.. because there are no keel bolts to corrode,
shear, loosen or come off on the E25... is this right??
thnx all- putting her back in the water tuesday-
don't want any unpleasant surprises this summer...
(and how important is that sacrifical zinc starboard
up next to the centerboard slot??)
bgs
...i am not going to have access to keel bolts on
this E25.. because there are no keel bolts to corrode,
shear, loosen or come off on the E25... is this right??
thnx all- putting her back in the water tuesday-
don't want any unpleasant surprises this summer...
(and how important is that sacrifical zinc starboard
up next to the centerboard slot??)
bgs
E-25 Keel Bolts? Naaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
I've got a 1974 E-25 w/ a full keel (and, apparently, the tall mast) and, yes, there are *no* keel bolts.
Mind you, I don't know how common the full-keel E-25s are (%age of production, for instance) since most of the documentations I have seen (especially here) has implied that the centreboard version was, for the most part, the "default" and a full keel was "special".
There are times when I'd've liked a centreboard... but the full keel (and all the lead in it) reassures my wife that the boat won't flip over in a 15mph breeze.
Mind you, she still gets a bit anxious when we get hit with a gust, but, hey... *that's* the _fun_ part. (Just like a motorcycle on a winding road; leaning is the _fun_ part.)
I've got a 1974 E-25 w/ a full keel (and, apparently, the tall mast) and, yes, there are *no* keel bolts.
Mind you, I don't know how common the full-keel E-25s are (%age of production, for instance) since most of the documentations I have seen (especially here) has implied that the centreboard version was, for the most part, the "default" and a full keel was "special".
There are times when I'd've liked a centreboard... but the full keel (and all the lead in it) reassures my wife that the boat won't flip over in a 15mph breeze.
Mind you, she still gets a bit anxious when we get hit with a gust, but, hey... *that's* the _fun_ part. (Just like a motorcycle on a winding road; leaning is the _fun_ part.)
Joe Benedict
Member II
Almost Encapsulated Keel
This just a warning from someone who is facing this issue. While it is true that the keels are encapsulated (including my E29) that doesn't mean they won't leak. The fiberglass on my boat wore through at the bottom of the keel due to the previous yard placing the keel directly on the steel cradle for the previuos owner. When the boat got launched, water found it's way up the keel and through imperfections in the top of the "encapsulation." When the problem was discovered the next day, there was a foot of water in the cabin. It took a week to drain the water out of the keel (not the hollow part)in order to enable the fiberglass to be repaired. This process included vacuum bagging. I'm negociating a touch up repair this year but the current yard is reluctant to get involved with the old repair. So, take care of the keels both in the water and on the hard.
This just a warning from someone who is facing this issue. While it is true that the keels are encapsulated (including my E29) that doesn't mean they won't leak. The fiberglass on my boat wore through at the bottom of the keel due to the previous yard placing the keel directly on the steel cradle for the previuos owner. When the boat got launched, water found it's way up the keel and through imperfections in the top of the "encapsulation." When the problem was discovered the next day, there was a foot of water in the cabin. It took a week to drain the water out of the keel (not the hollow part)in order to enable the fiberglass to be repaired. This process included vacuum bagging. I'm negociating a touch up repair this year but the current yard is reluctant to get involved with the old repair. So, take care of the keels both in the water and on the hard.
Keel fountaines and the rest
Last few weeks, I've been busy removing about 8 -10 coats of bottom paint from my E32-2 Keel, which is encapsulated lead. The lead is in the forward half and goes down towards the bottm. However, towards the back third portion of the keel it's fairly hollow and as I discovered a small pinhole leaked H20. Since I had all the paint stripped off and was going to barrier coat I decided to do some exploratory drilling. Eight holes later, about two 10 gallon pails of H20. Most of the water had entered from the bilge which received water leaking down from the repaired deckover the past year.Now my bilge is finally drained dry!
I am going to install a few Garboard drain plugs ( with flange), and epoxy /patch all the drain holes--this weekend. More fun. Barrier coating follows.
Last few weeks, I've been busy removing about 8 -10 coats of bottom paint from my E32-2 Keel, which is encapsulated lead. The lead is in the forward half and goes down towards the bottm. However, towards the back third portion of the keel it's fairly hollow and as I discovered a small pinhole leaked H20. Since I had all the paint stripped off and was going to barrier coat I decided to do some exploratory drilling. Eight holes later, about two 10 gallon pails of H20. Most of the water had entered from the bilge which received water leaking down from the repaired deckover the past year.Now my bilge is finally drained dry!
I am going to install a few Garboard drain plugs ( with flange), and epoxy /patch all the drain holes--this weekend. More fun. Barrier coating follows.
paul culver
Member III
Keel encapsulation
I'm a new owner of a 1977 E29 and found what looks to be an elongated fiberglass dome in the bottom of the bilge above the keel. Could this be the upper part of the keel encapsulation or something else (perhaps sinister)?
I'm a new owner of a 1977 E29 and found what looks to be an elongated fiberglass dome in the bottom of the bilge above the keel. Could this be the upper part of the keel encapsulation or something else (perhaps sinister)?
Hi Paul,
If the FRP bulge is behind the main keel area and behind the engine, it would be where the strut is glassed into place on the inside. If elsewhere, an owner of a similar model will have to help us out...
Loren
If the FRP bulge is behind the main keel area and behind the engine, it would be where the strut is glassed into place on the inside. If elsewhere, an owner of a similar model will have to help us out...
Loren
Joe Benedict
Member II
Attached is photo I took through the aft inspection cover - the trickle of water is what happened when the encapsulation got breached. There are actually two groves - one along each side - that run the length of the keel. Hope this helps.