Looking at 1983 E381, needs work or a mid-nineties Catalina42 mkll? any input appreciated

[Lifs2shrt]

I owned a (1974?) Ericson 29, 25 years ago in MDR (Christian's neighborhood/ Thelonius 2) and I liked the boat a lot. Well built and sailed well, but what did I know at the time and what do I know now. Now I want to sail again and have been researching and looking and prefer an E38 (which reminds me of the E29 but stretched) but also considering a Cat 42. The 38 I found would be around 36K purchase price but has 2 soft spots on the front most part of the raised cabin. Also rigging (standing and running) would probably need replacing and a few areas TLC here and there. It also has the original Universal diesel. Haven't had a survey yet but before I do that I wanted feedback on if it's better to go this route and be into the boat for 36K + 10-15K more for updates, or buy newer '95, '96, '97 Cat42 @$90K , that needs less immediate upgrades. Is the construction of the 1983 381 equal to or better than a '95 Cat42 and even though it's 12 years older? I've read many threads on the boat construction but still don't understand how it compares to 12 years newer by Catalina and now we're about 39 years since it was made. Anyway, I hope I've conveyed my thoughts and concerns. I have an emotional connection to the Ericson brand, but I don't want to make an emotional decision. I've also watched many of Christian's videos on YouTube and his 1984 381, and he's done amazing things with his and it gives me inspiration, but of course he knows a lot more than I do. I'm 54 and looking to sail here in Southern California, Channel Islands, perhaps down the Mexican coast one day.
Thanks for any input

 

[Christian Williams]

The 5432 diesel is no problem, they have aged well.

A Catalina 42 has approximately 117 times more room below than an E38, which makes everybody happy. And they sail, too.

Twelve years of boat age doesn't matter much to me, it's about the condition of each specimen. But 12 years in design terms can make a huge difference in accommodation, owner's cabin, and spouse-pleasing elements that may make family cruising more palatable.

If you have 90K, spend it. If you're willing to give up what everybody else now wants in terms of comfort and storage, the E38 series still lights a fire. And although it's very hard to spend $90K on the purchase price of an E38, the refurbishment will get you there soon enough.

 

[Loren Beach]

I have done an overnight passage on a Cat 42. Their engineering is was below the E-38. In a normal seaway - 5 footers - the boat was flexing enough to cause drips around nearly every port light and hatch base. Nothing came apart, but the construction is too flexible for my taste. That wide interior that is nice at the slip was hazardous to navigate without crawling around -- problem was that if you fell you would travel 13 feet plus before hitting something.
The E-38-200 I did a delivery on had a better motion at sea and was a LOT more solid.

I guess it always gets down to what you intend to use it for. And if you are hoping please a non-sailing spouse, I have seen that idea fail, painfully. For "gracious dockside living" the big Catalina is a great choice.

(Just my .02 worth, and only a cent on some days.)

 

[Lifs2shrt]

I appreciate the input, thanks a lot. Before I "give up" on this E381 I thought it wouldn't hurt to attach some photos of anything I thought was a "negative" or "red flag", I stuck my nose in as many places as I could. Gel coat worn on the top of the transom, some water (or other) damage in a spot, a little mildew on the headliner inside the cabinets, keel bolts (surface rust or need replacement?). And yes, the survey (should I decide to move to the next step) will tell me a lot more, but my .02 question is; from what we can see here (rigging aside, which I assume is around $10,000) does this example of an E381 look like I would need to spend an additional $10K or $20K to be safe and comfortable at sea? Or are most of what's shown, "minor/cosmetic(ish)" jobs/issues that can be tackled myself weekend by weekend for awhile?
Thanks again

 

[Christian Williams]

The big cosmetic issues are upholstery/foam replacement (4-10K), the cabin sole (2-6K), and damage to veneer from leaking portlights or hatches. Rebedding and lens change of portlights and hatches is a labor job, many of us have done it ourselves. This boat has a replacement sole and let's say the cushions are OK.

Most keel bolts show rust and there is often pitting under the nuts. Whether this bothers you or not depends on your analysis of redundancy and overdesign of the keel bolts. Experienced opinions vary. Keel bolts don't worry me, others put replacement high on the list. $5-10K around here.

Worn gel coat, showing black underneath, is cured by painting the decks with Awlgrip or similar. An E38 next to me here in SoCal was painted in the slip for under 3K.

If the gelcoat wear is confined to the transom, the solution is to paint only the transom, which you can do yourself. Cost me $300 by a freelance boat painter. Color match is easy because the transom and hull are always seen in different light angles, which tricks the eye..

The 381 doesn;t have any famous or particular weak spot which surveyors look for first.

I'd say a 381 surveyed as "above average" condition can be expected to require 10-20K in the first few years of ownership. Stuff gets discovered as you go, rigging may only need partial replacement, prop shaft may need work after 35 years, new sails are typically wanted, bottom job typically needed unless the former owner did it, and so on.

But that's true of any '80s boat. I think if you are drawn to the 381 this seems at first glance like a candidate. And although the haulout and survey may be $1000 or a little more, it really educates you for the boat search.

Asking prices for the E381 seem to vary greatly by region and run $20k to $85K. Pricing often doesn't reflect the value so each specimen needs computation.

 

[Mr. Scarlett]

Great analysis/advice Christian, this would be useful to anyone looking at a boat.

But what else can you tell us about a $3000 in-the-slip paint job? I've never heard of either.

 

[Christian Williams]

Page through this thread, lots of specific information about the $3K deck job.

Ericson 38 Deck Paint

My new dock neighbor, Hank Toles*, is refinishing his decks with two-part paint. He had some minor gelcoat wear. As usual the effect is new-boat shiny, and a reminder that old boats can gleam again. *Update September, 2023: Hank Toles died a few weeks ago and I don't think anybody has...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Loren Beach]

One caveat, the more parts you remove from the deck the better finish you can achieve. It's probably way past time to re-bed the hardware anyway.
A good time limit for re-bedding is 30 years on well built boats, maybe 20 or less on lesser products.

 

[Lifs2shrt]

Christian, thanks again for the info on what the E 381 would likely require. But just because the Cat42 is 12 years newer, it would surely require some additional investment as well, or am I wrong? And isn't it true that the E 381, even though it's 38 years old might be better/stonger built (deck-to-hull joint specifically) than the mid-nineties Cat42? or did those 12 years made a big advance in strength of construction (with Catalina)? Anyway, still looking and weighing the pros/cons but and am looking to schedule a survey soon. Any suggestions for good sailboat Surveyors in LA and San Diego?

The big cosmetic issues are upholstery/foam replacement (4-10K), the cabin sole (2-6K), and damage to veneer from leaking portlights or hatches. Rebedding and lens change of portlights and hatches is a labor job, many of us have done it ourselves. This boat has a replacement sole and let's say the cushions are OK.

Most keel bolts show rust and there is often pitting under the nuts. Whether this bothers you or not depends on your analysis of redundancy and overdesign of the keel bolts. Experienced opinions vary. Keel bolts don't worry me, others put replacement high on the list. $5-10K around here.

Worn gel coat, showing black underneath, is cured by painting the decks with Awlgrip or similar. An E38 next to me here in SoCal was painted in the slip for under 3K.

If the gelcoat wear is confined to the transom, the solution is to paint only the transom, which you can do yourself. Cost me $300 by a freelance boat painter. Color match is easy because the transom and hull are always seen in different light angles, which tricks the eye..

The 381 doesn;t have any famous or particular weak spot which surveyors look for first.

I'd say a 381 surveyed as "above average" condition can be expected to require 10-20K in the first few years of ownership. Stuff gets discovered as you go, rigging may only need partial replacement, prop shaft may need work after 35 years, new sails are typically wanted, bottom job typically needed unless the former owner did it, and so on.

But that's true of any '80s boat. I think if you are drawn to the 381 this seems at first glance like a candidate. And although the haulout and survey may be $1000 or a little more, it really educates you for the boat search.

Asking prices for the E381 seem to vary greatly by region and run $20k to $85K. Pricing often doesn't reflect the value so each specimen needs computation.

 

[Christian Williams]

Ericson construction is better. (Axiom: Manufacturers who went broke cut fewer corners)

In this case the boats are so different comparison is theoretical--it comes down to personal appeal and intended use. Another way of saying there is no perfect boat, or either would be fine, or a bird in hand is worth more than one in chimney.