Looking at Ericsons

Arthur

New Member
The wife and I have been looking at sailboats to purchase. We have found a 1970 Ericson 30. It is sitting on the hard, and the hull is in excellent condition and ready for new paint. The deck has been refinished and painted, the wood trim is in need of refinishing but is in good condition. The interior is a work in progress, but no real problems. Sails are old. The diesel is a Ducati, 10 HP. That I see as a concern. I think the lines of the boat are really beautiful. If I would have to repower, what would be the way to go and how much investment would I be looking at?
Any and all advice would be appreciated.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
I think you are considering a boat that I saw on Yachtworld recently. The ad indicated that the owner was doing the work to renovate it--if so, I would have it surveyed independently to ensure that the work is done well (either way a survey is a good idea, but especially if it may be an "amateur" repair job; maybe you'll be lucky and the owner is a professional tradesman....)
There are lots of people knowledgeable about 1970 era E30s to give you their opinion, and what to watch for.
Good luck!
Frank.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hmmm.
Must be the one at a brokerage at Pt Townsend. Low hours on the engine, and they say it is a diesel.
Parts might be hassle someday... but with only 200 hours, "someday" might be quite a while off. I would wonder if the engine was sourced from a local distributor in BC.

Isn't that the Mk1 model, designed by.... William Crealock? I know that he designed the E-26-1.
Real Pretty boat, anyway.

There is another one for sale in that area, but with a Yanmar and for more money.
For the sake of comparison, it looks to be the same general size as the later Ericson 29, if one were seeking an Ericson in that size and price range. The 29 might be a bit roomier, FWIW.

Let us know what you decide, and we look forward to a tour at the '07 Rendezvous.

Loren in PDX
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Arthur, in partial answer to your question about the cost of repowering, a friend of mine recently had a new universal diesel engine installed on his Catalina 30, and felt he got a good deal at about $8,000. Canadian. It would pay to shop around, but I think it would be in this range.
Frank.
 

windjunkee

Member III
When we bought Voice of Reason, the engine wasn't working and the PO thought we might have to replace it. We bought her with the idea we were going to have to replace the engine. (We ended up rebuilding the engine and its all good) It has an A-4, gas powered engine. We looked into repowering the boat with a diesel and with the engine, transmission, rebuilding the engine footpad, changing the fuel delivery system, etc., and including all parts and labor, it was going to be about $10,000.00 when all was said and done.

Good luck.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Seems like a pretty small engine for a 30 foot boat.

Seems like a pretty small engine for a 30 foot boat. I have a little Yammer 8 hp in my E-27 and I am a bit under powered when I try to motor up wind in any thing above 16 knots. I rarely even try to do that but it would be nice to have more power at times. My boat displaces about 7,000 lbs. I think something like 18 hp would be better for me but I am in no position to drop that kind of cash. I give my little Yanmar a lot of TLC to keep it alive!
 

Arthur

New Member
Ducati diesel

Thanks for the replies,
I also feel that even if the engine runs well it is small for this boat, especially up here in the tidal waters of Washington. If the cost of a larger diesel is factored in, the low asking price is not such a great deal. It is one of the nicest looking sailboats I have looked at so far.
If I proceed with this boat, I feel a survey would be something to consider next. Thanks for that advice.
 

polackrm

Member I
Repowering

Arthur,
In July of 2005 I purchased an E-29 in Port Angeles, WA., one of the first things that I did was to repower with a 2GM20 Yanmar. (Not sure if they make that motor any longer) It is a 16 hp diesel and powers my 29' with no problem, I did put a 3 blade prop on it after I had the prop matched to the engine. I run it at about 1800-2000 rpm, just to keep the engine under load. The cost ran about $8,000.00 complete. If I had the time I might have looked for a used motor as they seem to come up fairly regularly, ebay etc..., I'm very happy with this motor on my boat and would tend to worry about having an underpowered boat trying to run with these currents and tides up here. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Bob Makowski E-29 "Pegasus" Port Angeles, WA.
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
2GM20, just under load

Bob, That engine is a good match for your E29 but you might want to consider operating it at much higher speeds. Consult your manual and you'll see that the engine should be run at sustained speeds no lower than 3,000 RPM and no more than 3,400 RPM. The propellor should be matched to the engine such that it can achieve a maximum of 3,600 RPM but should not be run at that speed for more than one hoour or overheating will result. To operate your engine at lower speeds will, among other things, cause the exhaust elbow to carbon up MUCH faster and of course, will decrease the engine performance and power. Although I don't have an E29 (mine's an E31), my 3-blade prop is 13 X 12 1/2 RH. You might want to seriously think about pitching yours close to those numbers at least as a starting point. It took three iterations of my prop to get it to that size that now delivers the 3,600 RPM target speed. Just to be clear, I never operate my engine at 3,600 RPM but always operate it near 3,400 RPM for sustained periods. These are high speed engines unlike diesels of decades ago. It's not true that "babying" the engine at lower speeds will prolong its life, quite the opposite is true. Run your engine at higher speeds and it'll serve you much better and last a lot longer. Regards, Glyn Judson E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
 

polackrm

Member I
2gm20

Glyn, Thanks for the advice, I looked it up and indeed the manufacturer recommends a higher rpm. At my 50 hour service I had my mechanic check out my prop to engine match and he said that it was about as good as it was going to get. The engine max's out at 3,600 rpm but I can only get it up to 3,400 rpm at full throttle. My mechanic says that this is a good match as it now has a built in governor. The prop is 3 blade 12X14 RH. I guess from now on I'll have to run it faster and keep that engine healthy, thanks for the advice. Bob E-29 "Pegasus" Port Angeles, WA.
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Engine loading

Glyn - I have been thinking about your response since I first read it and have been trying to get some confirmation for the benefit you claim for running at the maximum continuous rating (-200 RPM). I have found multiple references to the "-200 RPM" and "-400 RPM" cruising speeds, but always in terms of maximums. I also find references to engine life being a function of RPM: "Typically the higher the speed, the shorter the engine's life will be."
http://www.frontierpower.com/service/enginelife.htm

I have a copy of the Yanmar 2GM20 manual and can find no reference to 3000 RPM other than not to exceed it during break in.

Universal M-25XP specs recommend "Cruising Range (Approx.)" of 2100 - 2600 RPM with a "Maximum RPM" of 3200 RPM.

Caterpillar recommends the -400 RPM, saying "However, for operation at 400 rpm under rated power or at “maximum continuous cruise,” you will find not only a satisfactory boat speed, but compounded benefits of lower noise, less engine wear, longer engine life..." compared to "maximum cruise" -200 RPM.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/securedFile/displaySecuredFileServletJSP?fileId=88871&languageId=7

Does anyone have a good reference to minimum loading to maintain manifold temperature to avoid carbon problems?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Ducati diesels (?)

In looking around the 'net for info on Ducati diesels, so far nothing pops out. The main factory site is all about motorcycles.
I think that I would have the broker provide exact info about the age and source of the engine. Alter all, the present owner will have this info and be eager to provide it in order to facilitate the sale.

It may be that they have a marine division after all, and it's just a matter of knowing who/where to contact.
After all, BMW used to sell a well-regarded line of marine diesels in the US...
;)

Best,
Loren in PDX
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
2-3GM(D)(F)(20)(30) engine speeds.

Tom and others, I found reference to the maximum operating engine speed of 3,600 RPM on page 3 of the smaller Yanmar Service Manual (green first page) at the back of the way larger Yanmar Service Manual I have. I can't put my fingers on the recommended 3,000 to 3,400 operating RPM information but know for a certainty that to operate for sustained periods at less than 3,000 RPM is not recommended by Yanmar. Avoidance of carbon build up in the elbow is the main reason for the higher engine speeds. I can also state from almost personal experience that operating the engine at 3,600 RPM for more than an hour will for a certainty overheat the cooling system and send the red light and sonalert ablazing. Years ago there was a period of time where Marilyn was single handing our boat to Catalina and back 32 NM each way and would have engine cooling troubles. By the way, she still single hands over, as recently as about a month ago. Typically she'd back out of our slip on a Friday around noon in order to catch the afternoon winds that would carry her to the island. She'd then motor off the mooring at the island around 1000 or 1100 on a Sunday morning to begin the passage home. With predictability the engine overheat about an hour out and she'd have to shut down the engine and catch what wind she could in order to get home. When nearing the south entrance of Marina del Rey she try the engine again only to have it indicate an overheating condition within minutes. Well, it should have, given that the'd boiled off all the coolant earlier in the morning. She'd then call Vessel Assist who would meet her at the south entrance and take her on the hip back into our slip. A few days later I'd check the coolant level, replace what had been boiled off and declare that I couldn't figure out what had happened to make the engine overheat. I need to say here that it never happened when we went over together or when I sailed alone, only when she single handed. As you already know, the problem was that I'd never exceed 3,400 RPM but had never told her about that limit. She would simply put the throttle all the way down to 3,600 RPM when needing the engine in the lighter, late morning winds off the island and end up cooking the coolant out an hour later. Finally I rode along with her one passage over and back with the understanding that I'd do nothing to assist, I'd just observe. The trip over went just fine given that she only used the engine for about 20-30 minutes to get the boat out of the marina. Then came the Sunday return and after close an hour, it dawned on me to look at the engine speed. There it was, 3,600 RPM and the cause of all her woes was evident. We reduced speed immediately and the engine's never overheated since. I'll look around a bit more to see if I can find the 3,000 to 3,400 RPM I quoted earlier today. Stand by (I hope), Glyn
 

wurzner

Member III
Doing the math, 3400 on a 3600 RPM engine is just under 95%. Everything I've ever read suggests a cruise of 70~80 of the max redline. I've never read about the Yanmars, and that is also based on the lower turning engines that have a max redline of 3000. None the less, I seriously doubt that any diesel engine or conventional engine (perhaps with the execption of a turbine or rotory) are designed to operate at the level. Also, I'd be seriously concerned about the transmission as well since they not designed to operate continously at the max HP of the engine. I run my engine at 2100 and it maxes out at 3000 and have no soot (an indicator of carbon buildup) at the exhaust. I'm cruising at 6.5 at that RPM and that is fine. I can go quicker if I put it up to 2600, but she feels real goog at 2100 so that is where I keep it.

Shaun
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
It's hard to argue with the manufacturer

I've never read about the Yanmars... None the less, I seriously doubt that any diesel engine or conventional engine... are designed to operate at the level.

Best tell that to the people who write the Yanmar Operation Manual. Trust me, it says 3400 RPM for "Continuous rating output". Also the author of the Caterpillar guide I quoted and referenced yesterday.

The reality is that the these engines are governed so WOT is a controlled speed, not necessarily a red line. "Conventional" engines like outboards and lawn mowers are normally operated continuously at WOT.
 
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