Marina ice coverage

[Puget sailor]

I would expect freshwater cooling system in the engine to be using anti-freeze just like a car. Assuming that's true, it should be fine.
As for seawater that circulates through heat exchanger etc, that's more complicated. Puget Sound is salt water, so it will freeze, but not with conviction of fresh water, and not until lower temps. If in the river down in Portland, perhaps there is more circulation which might mean higher surface water temps and potentially more radiant heat coming up through the hull? I'd look for any evidence of freeze damage in anything with water in it, especially engine heat exchanger and raw water pump, hoses, through hull, etc. You might get lucky. I think part of the challenge with my boat is transom cowl vents facing wind. I did put blue tape over my dorade vents last trip to the boat to cut down on cross ventilation of cold air. I'd also suggest after checking boat, running engine, etc, hang around for half an hour after shutting it all down and look for leaks before taking off. Water lift muffler is another thing to check before starting the engine if in fresh water. Hopefully it's low enough to benefit from hull temp, plus it's not contained water, so it could freeze without breaking potentially. Don't forget the head too.

 

[Frank Langer]

I’m screwed I think. I haven’t been able to get to the boat for awhile and certainly not when I needed to right before this extremely cold spell. I have a Caframo dehumidifier placed in the engine compartment which keeps it warm but not too warm and has worked great for years, and I do not winterize the engine. I may regret that now with lots of power outages and really cold temps.
When I am able to get to the boat are there specific areas should I look out for freeze damage? I’ll check the whole freshwater cooling system but are there some areas more susceptible than others? I emptied the drinking water tank and system so hopefully that’s ok.

Doug,
We all worry when it gets this cold, and often the boat can withstand some cold. But caution is definitely advisable.
I wouldn't try to start the engine until either your heaters or the weather temps thaw it, in case it's frozen.
I would first gently check all seacocks to ensure they work properly and show no cracks or leaks. Check the raw water strainer to see if it's frozen, cracked. Avoid running bilge pump or water pressure pump until you're sure they aren't frozen. Check under the engine for any fluid leaks and for a possible popped freeze plug from the engine, if it has them.
I would check battery voltage and ensure they aren't frozen before trying to start the engine.
If all looks ok, I would then start the engine, let it warm up well, watching for more smoke than usual, which might indicate a head gasket leak, and any other possible coolant leaks. If it all looks and sounds ok, I would check the oil for any milky appearance, which could indicate a problem.
I'm not a mechanic, so others may have better ideas, but that's what I would do. Good luck, fingers crossed.
Frank

 

[Loren Beach]

O34 - Coupler, Shaft Seal, and Antifreeze

I was having some discussion with another owner about this part of the drive train. Since we were down at the moorage today with camera in hand.... Here it is pictured with the recent-install split coupler. Also visible is the PSS shaft seal. The...

ericsonyachts.org

We have a newer engine than when this blog entry was composed, but the procedure and the amount of pink antifreeze needed stays the same.
Introducing the antifreeze at the hull intake valve protects the whole raw water circuit all the way to the transom exhaust fitting.

 

[Kenneth K]

I’ll check the whole freshwater cooling system but are there some areas more susceptible than others?

The end of the heat exchanger that has the clean-out cap and rubber washer is exposed to raw water and subject to freezing. When I got my boat, that end was dimpled and bent out-of -square. I had to have a machine ship grind the end of mine to re-square it and stop the washer from leaking.

I've found a simple way to winterize things is to use a long hose with the proper sized plug-fitting (fashioned crudely with multiple wraps of electrical tape). Force the plug into an opening (sink drain, sink spigot, scupper, strainer, etc) and blow through the hose until you hear air bubbling out of the thru-hull, then quickly close the thru-hull. Once the line is purged, you can then add RV antifreeze (if desired) without the worry that it will be diluted by water in the hoses.

 

[Dave G.]

are there specific areas should I look out for freeze damage?

First and foremost IMHO would be thru hulls as those can sink the boat. Next would be the raw water cooling system and then your head/holding tank system. Cold air sinks to the bottom of the boat so it will freeze stuff fast. I presume your engine has antifreeze in the closed cooling system ?

 

[bigd14]

O34 - Coupler, Shaft Seal, and Antifreeze

I was having some discussion with another owner about this part of the drive train. Since we were down at the moorage today with camera in hand.... Here it is pictured with the recent-install split coupler. Also visible is the PSS shaft seal. The...

ericsonyachts.org

We have a newer engine than when this blog entry was composed, but the procedure and the amount of pink antifreeze needed stays the same.
Introducing the antifreeze at the hull intake valve protects the whole raw water circuit all the way to the transom exhaust fitting.

Yeah I’m gonna change my ways. Winterizing from here on out!

 

[bigd14]

Thanks everyone. Hopefully no major damage that will sink the boat before I can get down there after the thaw. Sounds like I have a lot of careful inspection ahead of me. Spring inspection and examination will happen early this year…

 

[Kenneth K]

Cold air sinks to the bottom of the boat so it will freeze stuff fast.

That's somewhat geographically dependent. February average water temps in the Puget sound are about 45 Deg F. Things at/below the waterline are protected. Get a foot or two above that, with freezing air temps, and it starts getting cold.

 

[Dave G.]

That's somewhat geographically dependent.

No not really, it's just science. Cold air molecules are moving slower so more of them pack into a space (higher density); the denser air sinks. Conversely warm air rises because the molecules are moving faster so they expand and there are fewer of them in a given space.

 

[Kenneth K]

No not really, it's just science. Cold air molecules are moving slower so more of them pack into a space (higher density); the denser air sinks. Conversely warm air rises because the molecules are moving faster so they expand and there are fewer of them in a given space.

Yes, of course. My point is that the hull is being heated to 45 deg.

 

[reginaldobaker]

Was supposed to help a friend haul out a Catalina 22 yesterday - despite our best efforts of breaking up the ice we couldn’t barely get out of the slip! Think the hull would’ve been fine through the ice but not enough thrust to make any progress with the 6hp outboard.
Would have been tough to make it through the main fairway regardless

 

[Loren Beach]

Looks kinda like Shilshole breakwater to me. Perhaps?

 

[reginaldobaker]

They look basically identical but this is the des moines marina. Turns out there is some freshwater ingress to the southern parts of the marina which may account for much the ice, the boatyard mentioned this is pretty unusual though

 

[southofvictor]

I hope everybody has weathered the cold OK. I got onto Quincy Monday night and with the ceramic heater my dockmate had turned on for me over the weekend found things all OK. Ran the diesel heater for a bit then it quit on me but I think it was just a sooted-up flame sensor. Fingers crossed it'll keep running now that I've cleaned the sensor. I Ran the engine this morning it seems fine as well. Only potential leak I found was around the head basin faucet handles. Generally, I've found this type to be self-protecting so if leaking from freeze it's just a matter of taking them apart and putting them back together again.

 

[Tooluser]

Blaine harbor! And more wind on the way.

 

[bigd14]

Finally got to the boat the other day. No obvious signs of freeze damage but I didn’t have time to run the engine. Fingers crossed…

 

[bgary]

^^^ glad to hear it!

The power system on my dock failed the day *after* the last freezing night... probably as a result of all the heaters running full-time. When I called the marina to ask when power was going to be restored, they said they'd had people working on it but had to divert them to other priorities... notably, the three boats that sank in their slips that night. Ugh.

When I left on Sunday the power was still out (!), so I ran a propane heater long enough to get the interior temp up above 45F, and ran the motor long enough to at least give the batteries some modicum of extra charger before having to leave for the airport. I left the boat completely unplugged from the dock, figuring that would hopefully protect it from any weird spikes or surges while they were messing with power. Beyond that, boat is completely "dead: - everything is "off" except the bilge-pump circuit.

Got word last night that the power has been restored... 8 days later... so hopefully when I get home I can get things back to normal. long-range forecast says it'll probably be below freezing again the first weekend of Feb.

B

 

[Christian Williams]

Why'd they sink? When you hear, please let us know. Apparently cold-related....

 

[Loren Beach]

Why'd they sink? When you hear, please let us know. Apparently cold-related....

I helped save a sinking *sailboat in our marina in '17. Same freezing cause. What happens is that a thru hull is left open feeding a hose or pipe or sometimes an engine block. After a week of temps in the 20's or teens, the interior of the boat stays well below freezing and any water inside freezes... and expands.
And the ice inside a hose or other solid containment expands and splits/breaks it. No problem apparent until the thaw happens when the now-breached hose starts allowing water inside. The sinking may take a few hours, and if someone is checking they can get aboard and close a thru hull and get a pump rigged. We see a few power boats, especially, sink after an extended freeze, when their raw water cooled engine and cracked piping lets the water leak in.
* that boat had an old OEM near-inaccessable ice box drain hose to a hidden thru hull... that the current owner was not aware of. When a couple of us noticed how low it was, it was about 15 minutes or so away from going under. Close call. Our club has a large gas-power pump and it was vital.

 

[Bolo]

Anyone who owns (or owned) a E32-3 will know that the two scuppers closest to the center line of the boat are plumbed together with hose and then run, as a single hose, to a sea cock under the galley sink. The outer scuppers are always open and above the water line when the boat is level. I always close the sea cock under the sink (as I do with all my sea cocks) when leaving the boat and of course do that when the boat winters in the slip in Annapolis. While it takes a lot to freeze the water around the boat because of the relatively warmer water, any hose that's not treated with anti-freeze inside the boat is subject to freezing and that includes the line that runs from the center scuppers to that thru hull under the galley. One spring I opened up that sea cock and in no time at all I could heard the bilge pump running intermittently which got my attention. As you may have guessed the line from the scupper to the sea cock was not winterized and this cause a break due to freezing. Good thing the sea cock was closed because that could have sunk the boat if the bilge pump failed. So now, as part of my winterization, I first open the sea cock to let out as much water as possible in the line. Close it and then fill the center scuppers up with anti freeze and then open the sea cock once again to get as much anti-freeze as possible down the line toward the sea cock. Then I close the valve, top off the scuppers with more anti-freeze and "seal" the scuppers with a double layer of aluminum foil between the scupper and the strainer plate to keep any rain/melted snow water from intruding and to prevent evaporation. This keeps that vulnerable line freeze free during the coldest winters eliminating hose fractures. I do just rely on the outer scuppers to drain the cockpit but that seems to be OK even after the occasion snow accumulation. I also check on the boat at least once a month after a two hour drive.