Modern equivalent of an Ericson cruiser/racer?

[Dave G.]

I doubt that Bene would even get close to you upwind or down.

 

[Teranodon]

Please note the difference in price: a factor of four or five. You could put a LOT of money into a used Ericson, and still come out ahead.

New boats are a mixed bag. There are a lot of things that you end up buying. Plus you can't assume higher reliability. Paradoxically, new stuff often doesn't work, at least not right away. My view is, unless you absolutely have to have something special (carbon fiber this or that, twin wheels/rudders, freestanding rig, open transom, whatever) buying a new boat just doesn't make sense.

 

[Rocinante33]

Performance wise, maybe something like this, but there are few performance cruisers out there:

https://3brefc126v633i9r4zk9q3p5-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Xp38-Brochure_NEW_February2019_ONLINE.pdf

base price €269K ($325K). But then, you should add carbon fiber mast, etc., etc. Oh and the cruising version is evemore than this performance yacht,if you want that.

maybe you could save a few euros by taking delivery in Denmark, cruise Europe for a while before crossing the pond to bring her back to America, Canada, Or wherever

 

[Christian Williams]

buying a new boat just doesn't make sense.

But it's easier. Buyers are also considering a vacation home, so it's also cheaper. A sailboat and a weekend retreat! I remember a broker (Arnie Gay in Annapolis) telling me that every boat over 45 feet* ought also to have a captain. Owners just couldn't keep up with maintenance schedules even on a new boat. Huh? says I. How hard can it be? Arnie laughed. "You're not in my market."

*At the time his clients, some of them new to sailing, were snapping up Hunter 45's as their first boat.

 

[goldenstate]

Please note the difference in price: a factor of four or five. You could put a LOT of money into a used Ericson, and still come out ahead.

New boats are a mixed bag. There are a lot of things that you end up buying. Plus you can't assume higher reliability. Paradoxically, new stuff often doesn't work, at least not right away. My view is, unless you absolutely have to have something special (carbon fiber this or that, twin wheels/rudders, freestanding rig, open transom, whatever) buying a new boat just doesn't make sense.

Stefan - I agree with pretty much everything you say. I recently crashed my Ericson and am on the precipice of effectively re-purchasing the boat for a number in the healthy 5 figures so this isn't an entirely academic discussion for me. I'm muddling through a decision tree.

Christian's observation is correct too, based on my observations. I find that in the SF Bay area, one can buy a new boat, or one can buy a boat that is at least 15 years old or older. There are very few five or even 10-year-old boats for sale. (Plenty of younger boats in the Mediterranean where they have all been chartered pretty hard, I gather). The new boat buyer isn't interested in maintenance and after 15 years that starts to be an issue.

But once one buys a 15+ year old boat, he winds up as a boat maintenance guy who sails occasionally. I'm exaggerating a bit, but I'm sure you know the feeling.

Even if there are some tweaks to be worked out, I would assume the first 5 years of a boat's life provide more sailing time and less fixing time than years 30-35 of a boat's life, (where I am now).

Supposing a 5-year hold time I think the math is something like

Ericson: Buy for 30, Spend 30 in upgrades, "Basis" = $60K, worth 30-35K after 5 years --->Depreciation cost of fun: -25K
New boat: Buy for $180K, spend 10K in upgrades "Basis" = $190K , worth $140K after 5 years ---->Depreciation cost of fun -50K

The Ericson case demands more attention and time from the owner. That's probably for the better in terms of sailing competency, mastery etc.. But it's a bit more of a commitment.

Maybe this will all help me make peace with dumping a bunch of money back into the hole called my boat

 

[K2MSmith]

So after a little more searching I have a couple of candidates that I think would be relatively close to my 32-200:

Boat	Ericson 32-200	Beneteau Oceanis 30.1	Hanse 348
Length Over All (Sailboat Data)	32.5'	31.27'	32.78
Length at Waterline	25.83'	28.38 feet	31.33
Displacement	9,800lbs	8807 lbs	13,889
Ballast	4,200lbs	2145lb	5071lb
Sail Area	496sf	425sf	630
"I" measure	42feet		44.62sf
Deep Keel Draft	6.04 feet	6.17 feet	6.4 feet
Beam	10.83 feet	9.81 feet	11.48
Price	30K and up	135k and up	155k and up

They are modern production boats so the build quality will be different from the quality of our production boats of yore.

The Oceanis 30.1 is interesting in part because the designers are the same as those who drew the Pogo 30. It's a corner chine planing-hull design that would slap in the waves, but probably go faster than my Ericson downwind all else equal.

BENETEAU Oceanis 30.1 | The best little robust smart sailboat cruiser

The Oceanis 30.1 is easy to sail but lively to helm and promises new experiences and thrills. This robust little smart cruiser is small enough to trail, opening up endless possibilities for sailing on lakes and rivers, as well as coastal sailing and high sea adventures.

www.beneteau.com

The Hanse is a smidge larger (probably sails more like an E35, given the waterline etc.) and has in common with the Beneteau a wide beam carried aft.

Hanse 348 - Model Range | Yacht Sales | Hanse Yachts

hanseyachts.hr

The Oceanis has an open transom, which I suppose one gets used to, and is good for water sloshing out, but the idea makes me a little uneasy.

The Hanse has a nice little fold-down swim platform that serves as a closing transom when not in use. It also has helmsmen seats perpendicular to the path of travel.

Both boats have twin wheels and rudders, which seem silly on smallish boats, but would make it easy to move about the cockpit.

The Oceanis has a prop-shaft drive, perhaps easier to trailer than a saildrive. The Hanse has a saildrive.

Of the two new small cruisers, I think the Hanse is closer to my 32. The Oceanis is trailer-able, which could be nice depending on one's needs, but I want a boat that will live in the bay year round. A couple of reviews mention that the 30.1 might have benefitted from stability with a wider beam, like the Pogo.

The Hanse comes with a self-tacking jib, which probably seems un-racy for a lot of people, but would make single handing-really easy.

The Beneteau dealer in the SF Bays says they are selling the Oceanis 30.1 like hotcakes. The sailing school in my marina has at least two. The dealer has sold four others this year and have two on order, with a spec boat coming in March.

I get the sense that the Jenneau boats enjoy a slightly better reputation than the Beneteaus, but the smallest Jenneau (The Sun Odyssey 349) is nearly 34 feet. Hanse also has a sister line called Dehler that is more race-oriented.

I think the Hanse would be the boat, but I have not seen any of them in person.

I had fractional lease partnership ( SailTime ) on an Oceanis 38.1 just prior to buying my old Ericson last year . Sailed it for about two years average of twice per month mostly day sails but overnight to Catalina several times . It was a nice boat , only 2-3 years old with saildrive , bow thruster, battened main with an electric halyard winch and self tacking jib . The thing practically sailed itself . The interior laminates are very IKEA-like . Looks nice but kind of flimsy . The dual rudders and helms are nice but almost required with a boat that is that beamy in the stern . No weather helm . Steering in reverse under motor with dual rudder requires a bow thruster to turn after leaving the slip .
in terms of performance, my Ericson 33 is faster ( not by a lot ) and upwind performance is much better with my boat / fractional rig. The cost of the 38.1 new ( loaded ) was 320+K with a code 0.

 

[Navman]

Passport ( 42) always had a good name for seaworthiness along with comfort and speed. I don't like the new style with the European design cat eye fixed port lights but the quality is still inherent with the boat. Was considering selling my E=38 this winter so I could get a Passport 42, 1990 I believe. Very pretty boat.

 

[K2MSmith]

If one had an their goals set upon an ocean crossing, you might also consider what AP options are available and your backup plan for rudder failure. Most of the newer boats (including the beneteau 38.1 I was a sailtime partner on) have fragile dual (exposed) rudders. The one that breaks is usually the one you need on the tack you are on . Also, do you want vane steering ? Have not seen one installed yet on a wide body dual rudder boat yet. (?)...

 

[G Kiba]

Last time I asked about the price of a new boat it didn't include sails or electronics. It was a Sydney 38 the boat was over 375K.

 

[Loren Beach]

Last time I asked about the price of a new boat it didn't include sails or electronics. It was a Sydney 38 the boat was over 375K.

And that was a major reason for our recent re-fit to create a 'new' 1988/2021 Olson 34. We got a functionally new 300K boat for about a third of that. I would have done the same for a Ericson 33/34/35.... same logic. Might be flawed logic, but it works for us.
Rationalization, you say?
Um Yup.

 

[bgary]

I wouldn't even know where to look in new boats. In my boat search, the only other makes that turned my head were Canadian Sailcrafts and C&Cs.

Same here. I looked at a number of C&Cs during those dark days when I hadn't yet found my Ericson.

Of the same vintage, if I'd found a Islander 34-2 (later Nordic-34) I would have given it a close look. Good boat, but not many of them built. (I will confess that the last boat that really caught my eye is a bristol-condition dark blue C&C-44 that popped up recently on an end-tie in the central marina. drool.)

Modern boats? No idea. None of the Cata-Bene-Hunte-J-X-blah-blah-blah boats I've seen recently in the marina have turned my head.

I have recently seen the drawings of Bob Perry's "re-imagined 50 years after the Islander-28" 28-footer, looks pretty cool. If he did a similar 32 that might be interesting. But given that the -28 is estimated to go for $175k, plus sails and electronics.... I'm not in the game. I'm not even on the stadium.

 

[Martin King]

Simple for me. If cost was no object and I wanted a daysailer / overnighter it would be the Hinckley Daysailer 42. Of course unless I hit the lottery I could never afford her. https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/hinckley-42-daysailer/

 

[Epenn]

Great discussion! For me it's always a tradeoff between fun to sail (performance) and ease/comfort (cruising). Other factors include seaworthiness, style, accomodations (beds, kitchens, etc), space, and I'm sure others. I really like the tradeoff that my 30+ makes, especially for the price. It has a nice sporty feel and also a nice cabin. In contrast, I often sail Beneteaus and Jeaneaus at a school i belong to, and frankly I hate them. Very ugly and not fun to sail. They are like RV's with a sail attached. If I were to upgrade to a newer boat I'd push for more performance, like maybe a j boat, but that is just because of my intended use, which is fun day sails around the bay.

 

[goldenstate]

Simple for me. If cost was no object and I wanted a daysailer / overnighter it would be the Hinckley Daysailer 42. Of course unless I hit the lottery I could never afford her. https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/hinckley-42-daysailer/

Do you know how many of those daysailers were built? I think Hinckley has given up on sailboat production.

More pretty work by you dad, of course.

 

[Martin King]

Don't know how many they built. I think Jimmy Buffet bought hull #1. I'm sure for the right price, Hinckley will build you one, but yeah the success of the Picnic Boat and her cousins are now the bread and butter of that company.

 

[Teranodon]

Tartans are nice boats: solid, well made, very attractive, and with a turn of speed. I once chartered a 3400 for a week and the only thing I didn't like was the self-tacking jib. They now make a 345. I assume you would have to pay 5-6 times the price of my E34, but if money is no object - why not?

It's too bad that the modern Pacific Seacraft boats are so slow. There are a bunch of them around here, and they are a pleasure to look at.

 

[steven]

I just love my E35-2. But unfortunately it's an old boat.

If I could get an E35-2 hull newly constructed with modern materials and fittings I would seriously consider it.

(Possibly a few 'minor' changes to be more DIY friendly: maybe transom hung rudder, outboard chain plates, standard off-the-shelf ports and hatches. Two alternative headsails on rollers. Maybe hybrid propulsion. No holes at all in the cabin top or deck).

--Steve

 

[Loren Beach]

Probably not a"proper" use of money.... but given the iconic looks of the 35-2, one could argue for buying a "fixer upper" for a couple bucks and remanufacturing it for another 100K. You'd have a WAY nicer 35 footer than the new ones at 200 to 300K.
Resale value? Moot point if you are in it for the long haul..... after all there's precious little logic in owning any sailboat in the first place.


To me it's kind of like restoring a vintage airplane. Do it if it makes you smile.

 

[Dan Morehouse]

Great question and discussion. The fact that we're unavoidably comparing apples to oranges just speaks to what a unique niche Ericsons occupied when they were being built, and how much more unique that niche has become as time has passed. For instance, how many of the proposed near equivalents for Ericsons under discussion have glassed hull/deck joints? How many have built up interiors tabbed to the hull? How many have full-on teak interiors, and layouts as fit for offshore as for entertaining dockside? How many resisted the urge toward flat hull sections that pound, shamelessly tubby beams, or too free use of freeboard? For that matter, how many of Ericson's contemptoraries used a structural grid to spread rig & hull loads? Plus, how many of the makes under discussion would still be likely to warm your heart as you look back on them at a distance from your dinghy 40 years after they were built? I doubt any of the Beneteaus, Hunters, Bavarias, Jeaneaus, Bavarias, Hanses, or Dehlers are going to have the legs our Ericsons have shown. Seems you'd at least have to look among the Najads, Malos, Hallberg-Rasseys, Tartans, Passports, post 80's Valiants, etc to get closer to the design pedigree & build quality mark.

Dan Morehouse
1981 E-38 "Next Exit"

 

[Dan Morehouse]

Hmm. I chartered a Bavaria 34 once and liked it fine. The fact that I cited Bavarias twice doesn't mean I have a brief against them...it just means my proofreading skills are on the wane.

Dan Morehouse
1981 E-38 "Next Exit"