Purchasing a 1987 38-200: The Refit Begins!

[Christian Williams]

Yes, that is/was gelcoat all right. Generally when it wears the layer beneath appears dark gray or even black.

Polishing unfortunately won't bring it back, but might add shine.

My transom was showing -- I mean my boat's transom -- and I had it painted with Awlgrip. The color was a very near match, and new Awlgrip really shines. Might be an idea for that section.

Here's my cabin house

 

[Drewm3i]

Good to know!

 

[CSMcKillip]

On our old boat - A Capri 25, I masked the area off where the non skid was, cleaned the area very well with Acetone, took gelcoat that was already pre color matched, (See color matching below) and using a 3" long mini super fine nap roller applied the new gelcoat over the non skid. I was able to do the full section in under 2 min. I then sprayed the full section with PVA to seal it and let the gel cook. The next day I washed the PVA off.


Color matching - I spend about an hour to get the beige color to match. I would mix in small amounts yellow, red, black and blue to get a bit darker brown color, then add back in the white Gelcoat to match exact the beige color.

This can all be done the same with the white section you are showing. I have to do my transom and when it gets a bit cooler I will dive into this project. I will also redo our nonskid.




The gelcoat has held up for 8 years now.

Chris

 

[Drewm3i]

Chris, I think that is the way to go! Gel is so much easier to apply and can be buffed to shine! I honestly don't care if it's a bit off. I just don't want beige poking through!

Christian, I was watching your sail on the 381 to Hawaii and noticed you retrofitted chainplates? Why? Did the tie bars give bite the dust? I would like to keep mine if they are okay.

 

[Drewm3i]

Update!

We closed and the boat is on the hard. Rig has been pulled down, pressure washed, sanded, primed, and painted with EZ Poxy white. It is not perfect, but looks good, albeit a little rough in texture. I will get pics next time I go to the boat. The rigger is going to replace all of the standing rigging after I pull the chainplates for inspection.

So far I've been sanding the bottom and the ablative Micron 66 is burnishing. Going to try a vacuum scraper instead. The hull and rudder have lots of tiny blisters that look like previous repairs done with a poor polyester fairing putty. I plant to fill these with epoxy after scraping.

Though the keelbolts look fine with just surface rust from the bilge, I am noticing rust dripping down the keel from the fairing area. I am going to have the keel dropped to re-bed and repair any damaged bolts. I will seal the joint with 5200 on the bolts and epoxy at the fairing joint.

I picked up a like new Maxwell Windlass to install! Trying to figure out how to mount it...

Priorities I know, but the new NMEA 2000 B&G Triton 41 Wind/Depth/GPS Instruments from Defender are in!
https://www.defender.com/product.js...nd-gps-pack&path=-1|619045|1970782&id=4510353

I also ordered the new NMEA 2000 B&G v20 VHF which will be in soon. Going to pair this with a Vesper AIS receiver/transponder/wifi unit and a B&G Vulcan chartplotter/3g radar combo when I can find them on sale!

I installed a new Sony stereo and 4 new speakers to replace the ancient ones.

All in all, we are moving forward. I will get pics next time!

A few questions/concerns:

1) Does anyone know how Ericson bedded the keels? Am I being paranoid or is dropping the keel wise?

2) Ditto on the three amidships chainplates...no visible corrosion on the u toggle bolts and there are no internal leaks under them. Leave alone or take the whole interior apart to check what is 99% likely fine? The backstay and forestay chain plates, however show rust and will be checked and replaced if necessary.

3) Getting a perfect painted finish in an outdoor and dusty boatyard is impossible. Hence I am going to try to use Spectrum gel coat repair or a gel coat finish coat to repair the areas on the boat that need it as I mentioned above. My philosophy is to repair, not rebuild and change this boat too much.

4) Sails...I have Mylar 170 and 150 head sails, an asymetrical spinnaker, the original mainsail and 150 Genoa, and a newer 135 Genoa. Does anyone know what dacron fabric Ericson used? The main is in above average condition per the survey and to my eye the fabric looks really good, but is dirty/faded in spots. The sail is fully battened in four places, indicating it is stretched out. Thinking about sending it to sailcare.com for cleaning, repair, and resin treatment versus buying new as we are pouring cash into this project right now! A new sail can be had for $1,300-$1,800 depending on quality of materials/features. Should I also consider some sort of re-cut? Leave alone? Thoughts? For cruising the East Coast and Bahamas I am thinking just the main, 135, and spinnaker would suffice.

 

[Joliba]

Keep Drop

I will address your first question concerning the keel. There are several threads on this forum that discuss the question of keel dropping in detail. Perhaps one of the others may locate these for you.
In my opinion, dropping the keel is not only a good idea but for someone who intends to travel far, it is essential. Many Ericsons built between 1986 and 1988 were manufactured with a defect. Someone at the yard omitted removal of the mold releaser wax from the keel root when the hull was separated from the plug. Consequently, the sealant used between the keel and the hull never really adhered to the boat. Eventually, there was water ingress at the junction that led to the problem you are now encountering. Dropping the keel is important in order to inspect the keel bolts, as there could be rust damage. Mine did not have any rust damage when I dropped our keel 10 years ago. The washers in the bilge were completely rusted away, apparently sacrificially, due to a slight difference in the metal nobility. This protected the keel bolts and nuts, though that was likely unintentional. Although you will see a difference of opinion concerning bedding compounds if you explore this forum, I personally would advocate 3M 4200 and would avoid 5200 for several reasons. The 4200 is slightly more flexible and no matter how tightly this junction seems to be made on this particular boat model, there is always a slight bit of flex at the seam. If you coat the junction over with epoxy barrier coat and bottom paint, you will find when hauling the boat in the future that the outer layer cracks because of the slight residual motion. This does not mean that the seal between the keel and the root has broken. Someone very experienced in our boat yard also advised using 4200, as a hard grounding with some damage is not an unlikely event in the future of any cruising boat. If 5200 is used, the next keel removal job could tear away some layers of fiberglass and cause additional unnecessary damage and work. 4200 is just as durable and effective. I was sold by this argument and have been happy that I chose 4200. Maine Sail has called 5200 “the devil’s glue.” Good luck!
Mike Jacker

 

[Christian Williams]

If that really is the original mainsail, you need to throw it away. If just old, have a sailmaker look at it and consider his advice.

An aged mainsail ruins the fine sailing characteristics of Ericsons, which are not designed for the battenless slab horror convenience of sailing RVs not intended to go to windward.

New sails trump most other upgrades in my opinion.

 

[Drewm3i]

Joliba, thanks for the feedback! Glad we aren't just being paranoid!

Christian, yes it is indeed the original main. This boat was babied and used as a day sailer on Charlotte Harbor. After being brought down from Long Island, it never even made it to the Keys and Bahamas. Hence, the main doesnt look new, but it is in great shape with no rips, tears, or damage to the threads. I hate to throw away a good sail...

 

[Drewm3i]

I assume the forum would like some pictures...

Bottom almost completely vacuum scraped





Mast and boom painted withEZpoxy one-part polyurethane

 

[Drewm3i]

 

[supersailor]

Just a quick comment on stoves, I changed from the original CNG stove to a Force 10 propane stove two years ago. Until the change, I didn't realize what a hunk of junk the CNG stove was. The Force 10 is a pleasure to cook with.

Other than that, a 2 1/2 gallon propane tank holds more energy than the two gigantic CNG cylinders did leaving a big storage space open that wasn't there before. The back of the boat is lighter now due to one aluminum tank replacing two 3000 PSI pressure vessels. I believe the 38-200 has two built in compartments for propane tanks.

There are almost no CNG dispensers near where am so I spent 3 days eating crackers when I misjudged the amount of CNG available (the reserve tank was empty and I was in Alderbrook at the bottom of the Hood Canal).

The final nail in CNG's coffin was the supplier in Sidney on Vancouver Island raised the price to $130 a tank and I had to get two filled. The equivalent amount of propane was $1.79.

Most problems with propane come from gross misuse of it eg portable tank heater, portable stove etc. Set up to Coast Guard standards, it is a reasonable fuel to use and it is available everywhere.

 

[Drewm3i]

While I no doubt plant to convert our stove to propane one day, it simply isn't in the cards right now so cng or a portable propane grill/burner on Deck with have to do.

 

[Christian Williams]

Correct me, but I thought you could convert CNG stoves to propane.

New burner jets, sniffer, solenoid--

What makes that undesirable?

 

[supersailor]

For my '87, the parts were totally unavailable. I converted using available parts. Not satisfactory. The stove is not a place to play around. Too dangerous. Blowing myself up was not an acceptable option although others might think differently. All I can say is the CNG/propane stoves in these boats is a piece of junk.

 

[Drewm3i]

Correct me, but I thought you could convert CNG stoves to propane.

New burner jets, sniffer, solenoid--

What makes that undesirable?

You are right and this is the route we will eventually take.

 

[Loren Beach]

For my '87, the parts were totally unavailable. I converted using available parts. Not satisfactory. The stove is not a place to play around. Too dangerous. Blowing myself up was not an acceptable option although others might think differently. All I can say is the CNG/propane stoves in these boats is a piece of junk.

I Agree, and then there is the age and condition of the whole stove or range assembly after 30 years of salt air. I have seen vintage stoves that still ran - pressure alcohol, CNG, and propane - many of them were pretty close to their end-of-life. Some were scary.

Quite a few were painted metal and others had low-quality "stainless steel" and were never more than re-labeled lightly-marinized RV items when new. Not just EY boats, but most other makes of boat as well.

About the only widely-distributed brands from the 80's that endure are the Force 10 and the Origo line. Both were and are relatively expensive. Just an opinion, mind you, and certainly YMMV.

There were some imported up-scale ones like the Broadwater (from AU) in the 90's, but they disappeared from our stores.... always wondered what happened to them.

There are the stock ones that European boat builders have been installing like the Eno and a French company whose name I forget. SS frames, but again, time takes its toll on all.

For all the touted safety pluses of CNG, around here it's really difficult to get a tank refilled. Really difficult. Like any high-pressure tank, you have to test/recertify them after xx years, too.

While propane is fine (used it for ten years on prior boat), we are happy with the Origo. No hoses and electrics to maintain. Twenty years of use now, and counting.
Worth noting is that if you have any pressure gas system all of the hoses are due for replacement after XX years. I read where they mandate a replacement in less than a decade throughout the UK, for instance.
(Having visited the still-floating hull after an LPG explosion blew the whole deck off the evening before, years later I can still recall the sight clearly.)

 

[u079721]

I've mentioned this before, but pretty much everything about the use and filling of the CNG tanks kind of scared me. I used pressurized gas cylinders at work, so I knew what kind of precautions ought to be taken with any of them, let alone ones filled with flammable gas. These cylinders didn't even have a cap on them to protect them during transport! (I used to wonder what would happen if I had a traffic accident while driving a full tank out to the boat.)

I found an alternate fuel filling station about 50 miles away that offered CNG for buses. I then found an adapter online that allowed me to fill up the tanks from the filling stations. But the stations had two different pumps, one at 3000 psi, and one at 4500 psi, and there was nothing to keep you from filling our small tanks - meant to use the 3000 psi level - with the higher pressure of gas. There was also no requirement that my tank be pressure tested prior to filling up at the pump. To be safe I did find a way to get mine tested at a local dive shop every few years. About the only good thing was the cost, since filling the tanks myself cost all of $0.47 a tank at the filling station.

Had we kept Rag Doll much longer a conversion was definitely in our future.

 

[Tom Metzger]

Correct me, but I thought you could convert CNG stoves to propane. New burner jets, sniffer, solenoid-- What makes that undesirable?

Twenty years ago it was not a problem. The stove on Xanthus was built by Seaward Products, labeled as Gas Systems, or something like that. Seaward products had a bunch of parts in a kit that made the conversion to LNG easy.
The propane orifices are smaller than natural gas so it is not as simple as just drilling them out. The oven regulator was something I didn't want to deal with so I bought the kit.

Back when I did it there was a market for CNG tanks... I doubt it exists any more. I've tried a couple of times to sell the regulator on sailing sites with no luck.

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Twenty years ago it was not a problem. The stove on Xanthus was built by Seaward Products, labeled as Gas Systems, or something like that. Seaward products had a bunch of parts in a kit that made the conversion to LNG easy.
The propane orifices are smaller than natural gas so it is not as simple as just drilling them out. The oven regulator was something I didn't want to deal with so I bought the kit.

Back when I did it there was a market for CNG tanks... I doubt it exists any more. I've tried a couple of times to sell the regulator on sailing sites with no luck.

Maybe because the regulators usually don't break. My CNG works great, and I have a bottle filling station in Plymouth Meeting PA and Coatesville PA. Filled my tank last time for less than $2.00.

It all depends on the availability of CNG in your area. The CNG systems work. Propane is much easier to get worldwide though.

CNG Bottle fill station - http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/album.php?albumid=311