Removing the forestay with roller furling.

[Kenneth K]

West Marine does have various regional rigging centers. I just called the one in Seattle and was able to speak someone immediately--he was very helpful.

He said to put tape on the top of the turnbuckles to mark the current position I have set, then bring each individual shroud/stay into a store. He would make the new cables very slightly shorter, to account for stretching of the new cable once installed. The end result being, after a time, that the turnbuckles will eventually be set very close to where they are now.

 

[Gaviate]

I replaced my standing rigging last spring with mast up and the boat on the hard. I used a lift to get to the top which provided easy access to everything, a stable work platform and rented for 1/3 the cost of crane and operator. I discarded my furler (beyond help it was) and switched to hank on head sails. A local rigger agreed to assemble stays using my measurements and coached me to be sure to use a steel tape (no stretch) and measure center of pin on mast, to center of pin on chainplate. He then adjusted for dimension of new turnbuckles, which he also provided.
I measured (using lift) Friday morning, picked up new rigging Friday after 1400 and installed everything Saturday morning.
Removing the furler, I took bottom loose first, then went up top and had helper to walk away with bottom as I lowered from above.
I used my 3 halyards to steady the mast whilst stays were being changed. All total, project took about 6 1/2 hours of actual working time.

 

[Christian Williams]

Boom lift or scissor? I looked up rental and around here--looks like 1K-1.5K a week, which I guess includes delivery and pickup.

Or maybe you have special access? Just curious, we have a lot of inquiries about how to do masthead work.

 

[Gaviate]

Boom lift or scissor?

Tow behind boom lift, "Genie" is the brand, I use them for construction often and with 3/4 ton vehicle, rental company will let me pick up and return so no delivery fees. I generally plan work days to minimize time with rental equipment. 1K per week is about right, my last use of 2 days used up 320 boat bucks.
And you're not alone being curious, half a dozen sailors at marina asked if they could use the lift next!

 

[bgary]

He said to put tape on the top of the turnbuckles to mark the current position

Another option is to measure the distance from (e.g.) top of swage to center of pin.

Tape can move.

 

[Kenneth K]

Another option is to measure the distance from (e.g.) top of swage to center of pin.

Tape can move.

He'll have the actual (removed) lengths of shrouds/stays to measure the overall length from.

I likely misspoke in post #21 above ["The end result being, after a time, that the turnbuckles will eventually be set very close to where they are now."] I think the likely purpose of marking (or measuring) the turnbuckle extension is so that that the new wires can be sized for "centered" turnbuckles. I.e., if an existing setting had the turnbuckle fully tightened, you'd want the new wire to be made shorter than the original.

Good point about the tape slipping though. Maybe I'll use paint, tape, and zip ties.

 

[Frank Langer]

So I know that the new shrouds will stretch a bit once they are tensioned. But if Kenneth re tunes his rigging after a few months to take up that slight slack, will the shrouds continue to stretch once they are retensioned?
I ask because I usually retune my standing rigging annually just to be sure, but after many years, I find it doesn't change much, if at all. Yet presumably, a wire under tension should stretch, no?
Frank

 

[Loren Beach]

I am not sure about the extent of stretch after the initial wire stretches a bit. I also wonder if what we amateurs call "stretch" is less of the actual strands elongating, but rather the whole bundle tightening up after being left loaded, in actual use. (?)

I do not sail my boat hard compared to many, but do find that the rig stays "tight" without noticeable spar geometry changes for 8 or 10 years at a time.

Frank, do you re-tune with something like a Loos gauge? (I have never owned one, riggers all seem to have them.)

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, Loren! I have borrowed a Loos gauge a couple of times many years ago, and they can be useful. But I now follow Brion Toss' advice to have shrouds tight enough so that the mast is straight and the leeward shroud feels just slightly loose but still looks tight when sailing in a good breeze.
I have also used the method he described in one of his books of taping a tape measure to the shroud when the whole rig is slack, before tuning, and tightening each shroud until it has stretched the exact number of millimetres that indicates a 15% working load. That method also worked well.
If I want to grease the turnbuckle lightly to avoid galling (usually an annual job), I count the number of threads visible above and below each turnbuckle, and retension the shroud to exactly that same position, and double check that it all still feels right when I get sailing in a good breeze.
When I had my forestay replaced last year the rigger commented that my mast looked straight and the rig tension felt right. This was echoed by UK Sails staff when they measured for new sails.
Frank

 

[Kenneth K]

If I want to grease the turnbuckle lightly to avoid galling (usually an annual job), I count the number of threads visible above and below each turnbuckle...

The West Marine rigger said the turnbuckle bodies are silicon bronze (which is why they're so expensive). I believe the threaded ends of the turnbuckle are stainless steel and that this combination of metals is made to prevent galling.

I thought about lubricating the turnbuckles when I first got the boat, but thought it might just attract debris. So I've never lubed them but I brush off the threads before making any adjustments. They turned very easily when I adjusted last summer.

Wonder what most owners do?

 

[southofvictor]

We replaced a damaged headstay and foil sections on a Morgan 384 at the dock in October. Not a big deal. Ran two halyards forward one to an inner stay pad eye and one to the windlass and tensioned them. Felt comfortably solid. Backed off the backstay then the headstay turnbuckle, went up the mast, knocked the pin out and lowered the headstay with a tagline I brought up with me while two guys walked the bottom end down the dock. Rigger came, put the whole thing on his trailer and had the new one back to us the next morning. Reversed the process and we were good to go. Paid the rigger for putting together the new headstay and foil sections, but didn't have to pay him to go up the mast twice. Seemed worth it.

The late Patrick Childress has a pretty good YouTube video showing the process but with a Profurl.

 

[G Kiba]

Tom,
The Richmond store closed last month! I heard that they did not renew their lease. Now there is no marine store in Richmond open on the weekends except for Whale Point on Saturdays. KKMI's chandlery only opens on the week days.

 

[G Kiba]

The West Marine rigger said the turnbuckle bodies are silicon bronze (which is why they're so expensive). I believe the threaded ends of the turnbuckle are stainless steel and that this combination of metals is made to prevent galling.

I thought about lubricating the turnbuckles when I first got the boat, but thought it might just attract debris. So I've never lubed them but I brush off the threads before making any adjustments. They turned very easily when I adjusted last summer.

Wonder what most owners do?

I use a dry lubricant like SailKote.

 

[goldenstate]

Tom,
The Richmond store closed last month! I heard that they did not renew their lease. Now there is no marine store in Richmond open on the weekends except for Whale Point on Saturdays. KKMI's chandlery only opens on the week days.

That’s good. It was a terrible location in an impenetrable strip mall. The West Marine in Sausalito is much better, but mostly I like Defender and Whale Point.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Anyone ever drop their roller-furling covered forestay? Is it possible to do without pulling the mast or using a crane? I'm trying to formulate a plan of attack for changing out the standing rigging, but can't get my head around the forestay.

Is there a turnbuckle inside the roller furler? It's a Harken:
View attachment 41041

How would you lower the forestay without bending the furler foil?

That is a twice recalled furler.
The Harken MkI with the roll pins was first recalled because the roll pins are prone to failure resulting in the sail being unfurable (is that a word?).
Way back then 80's they would send you a new set of foils with the newer style links and all the materials to redo them at cost. They are long out if them now however.
Then the furler was recalled because the bottom toggle was incorrectly machined resulting in the toggle eye having insufficient metal in the sides of the pin hole. The replacements had a red dot painted on them to signify they were the replacement part. That was a free recall available to all that showed proof of having a non conforming part. These too are no longer available.
As many have pointed out sending a furler to deck is doable at the dock with correct halyards and a knowledge of safe aloft techniques.
However if the mast has not been out if the boat since the furler was installed in the 1980s, this would be a good time to pull it and inspect all of the components. Some components cannot be correctly inspected while the rig is in the boat.
Guy

 

[Kenneth K]

@Guy Stevens

The mast was removed in 2016 for transportation. The PO kept the boat on a trailer so I think they pulled the mast periodically. However, it doesn't look like anything has been replaced. Thus, my interest and redoing all the standing rigging.

Interesting about the recalls on the Harken furler. But what's a casual owner to do at this point? It's been working fine for me. Once the head stay has been replaced, it doesn't seem worth preemptively replacing a furler that's still working and will likely continue to do so. No?

 

[Guy Stevens]

Two dangers. One the roll pins fall out or break and you can't fuel or unfurl or lower, as the sail is pinched in the fool joint that now moves.
2 the part that is the bottom of the forestay (Harken mk 1 the drum assembly is the turnbuckle), is one of the recalled parts. If it breaks down comes the mast.
Guy

 

[Frank Langer]

Two dangers. One the roll pins fall out or break and you can't fuel or unfurl or lower, as the sail is pinched in the fool joint that now moves.
2 the part that is the bottom of the forestay (Harken mk 1 the drum assembly is the turnbuckle), is one of the recalled parts. If it breaks down comes the mast.
Guy

Is the Mark I the only Hearken furler that's been recalled? The Harken ll looks similar, so was it also a problem?
Frank

 

[Kenneth K]

If it breaks down comes the mast.
Guy

I can live with the first hazard. For the second, perhaps I can take the lower fitting off to show the rigger. Maybe he can replace it with something sturdier.

 

[Loren Beach]

Back in 2018 I had the 1995 headstay and Harken mk 2 replaced. It had seized up during last windy fall sailing day, and our rigger said that some parts are no longer. While I know that these units were well designed and do have a long life, I figured that worrying about repairs, after a couple of decades, was just not something we wanted to do. All that said, if a person is handy and can substitute time for money, and of course is patient, older parts can often be repaired.