Running Rigging Layout - Mast vs. Cockpit

[KS Dave]

While I have my mast down for some refurbishing, I've been contemplating my running rigging and seeing if I can improve the efficiency of my setup and the control lines running to my cockpit. Maybe I can bounce some ideas around to those of you more experienced for your thoughts?

Here's my current layout:

Port
Jib Halyard - furling; internal mast
Whisker topping lift - external
Reef #2 outhaul - internal boom (Jiffy)
Main outhaul - internal boom; fixed foot main

Starboard
Main Halyard - internal mast
Reef #1 outhaul - internal boom (jffiy)
Vang - run through block and back to cockpit through organizer
Main sheet - internal mast

Ideas:

1. Move the whisker topping lift to be internal and still route it to the cockpit. Setting a whisker pole is a 2-person operation for my boat, and that other person is typically in the cockpit already.
2. Add an internal masthead line that can be used as either safety line for mast ascent or spare halyard.
3. The jib halyard gets used 2-4 times per year. It seems like overkill to have that running to the cockpit. Any reason I shouldn't relocate that to the mast, add a rope clutch or cleat to tie it off there, and store it in a bag attached to the mast until needed?
4. I almost never adjust the mainsail outhaul. Is that common, or should I be doing it more? My main is pretty blown out, so I'm not sure how much magic sail shape could actually be accomplished here. I currently have to put some strong tension on my first reef line (leech) to improve sail shape today.
5. Other lines handy for the cockpit? Reefing downhauls? Boom topping lift?

Along with a few years using my current setup, this old thread has me thinking about it more seeing how others have theirs setup. Open to any and all thoughts or to some threads I might have missed on this topic.

Thanks!

 

[Christian Williams]

I can say how I'm rigged, and why, but i wouldn;t call it recommendation.

1. For me it's a one-person job, so I want the whisker pole lift on the mast. There is a lot of messing with it when adjusting telescope length, raising pole out of the chocks and so on.

2. Good to have a spare jib halyard, yeah. Also good to have the whisker pole lift at its mid-mast sheave, beause a whisker pole lift at masthead (often that's a spare jib halyard) can get wrapped up in the sail when furling the jib in heavy air.

3, You could. I find it handy to have on a clutch available from the cockpit, only because I try to remember to slack off jib halyard tension when at the dock, and tighten again before sailing.

4. I almost never touch the outhaul, which is cleated on the boom. Any slab reef put in adjusts the outhaul automatically.

5. I almost never touch the boom topping lift, which is on a cleat on the boom.

5a, I like my reef tack downhauls, which go to clutches on the cabin house. No need to go forward to attach tack to horn. With a steady crew, probably not necessary. If you sail with guests, and tend to do everything yourself, they are invaluable.

 

[bigd14]

On my 30+ I have as follows on the cabin top:

Port, out to in on one ST winch: Reef 1 downhaul in clutch, Reef 1 Outhaul in clutch, Main Halyard in clutch, Mainsheet with Cam Cleat.

Starboard in to out on one ST winch: Vang with cam cleat, Reef 2 downhaul in clutch, Reef 2 Outhaul in clutch, spare jib halyard in clutch.

Main jib halyard lives on the mast. Outhaul is on the boom and rarely adjusted. Traveler lines are run through the dodger and are outside of the clutches.

I really like having the reef downhaul and outhaul next to each other especially next to the main halyard and mainsheet on port for Reef 1. Makes reefing super easy in less than a minute. Head on a close reach, release mainsheet, release main halyard (while hanging on to it!) and lower sail while pulling downhaul until tight, retension main halyard, tension outhaul and mainsheet and off you go. Easy peasy.

 

[Loren Beach]

Regarding the topping lift line for the boom. Our previous 26 footer had one, and it liked to snag on a batten pocket. The Olson came with a rod vang and if I had known how pleasing this would be, I would have converted the prior boat!

 

[Christian Williams]

the topping lift...liked to snag on a batten pocket

That must be what irritates people so much. On my E38 that doesn;t happen--the aspect ration of the mainsail is high, with not much roach.

 

[peaman]

The Olson came with a rod vang

Is that like a Tylaska Boomkicker or similar, or something different?

 

[KS Dave]

Excellent so far - thank you! I appreciate the details on the 'why'.

1. For me it's a one-person job, so I want the whisker pole lift on the mast. There is a lot of messing with it when adjusting telescope length, raising pole out of the chocks and so on.

Good points, here. Still a two-person for me because I have a tiller. No autopilot or tiller-tamer (on a lake, so things happen more quickly, too). So far, it's a rarity to use the whisker pole because most of the time, it's easier/safer to reach when running downwind-ish. Or, by the time I got it all set, I'd need to make a big change. Lower wind days make it more practical.

2. Good to have a spare jib halyard, yeah. Also good to have the whisker pole lift at its mid-mast sheave, beause a whisker pole lift at masthead (often that's a spare jib halyard) can get wrapped up in the sail when furling the jib in heavy air.

I'm adding a small exit sheave mid-mast to replace the blocking hanging there for whisker pole lift and adding an exit block at the top for the 'extra' line. Being a fractional rig, the existing jib halyard isn't great as a safety line so you kind of put your eggs in one basket with the main halyard.

3, You could. I find it handy to have on a clutch available from the cockpit, only because I try to remember to slack off jib halyard tension when at the dock, and tighten again before sailing.

I'm not in this habit nor was I really aware of the benefits of it. Thank you.

5a, I like my reef tack downhauls, which go to clutches on the cabin house. No need to go forward to attach tack to horn. With a steady crew, probably not necessary. If you sail with guests, and tend to do everything yourself, they are invaluable.

Noted. Don't always have a steady crew, and honestly this might be a good idea so I could take guests more easily or build my single-handing skills.

Port, out to in on one ST winch: Reef 1 downhaul in clutch, Reef 1 Outhaul in clutch, Main Halyard in clutch, Mainsheet with Cam Cleat.

Hmm. This was my original setup (no clutches originally), but I moved it to a standard clutch and I have a self-tailer winch I usually leave it wrapped on while sailing. Maybe a habit to adjust.

Starboard in to out on one ST winch: Vang with cam cleat, Reef 2 downhaul in clutch, Reef 2 Outhaul in clutch, spare jib halyard in clutch.

I see your patterns - frequently adjusted on cam cleats. Less adjusted on full clutches.

I really like having the reef downhaul and outhaul next to each other especially next to the main halyard and mainsheet on port for Reef 1. Makes reefing super easy in less than a minute. Head on a close reach, release mainsheet, release main halyard (while hanging on to it!) and lower sail while pulling downhaul until tight, retension main halyard, tension outhaul and mainsheet and off you go. Easy peasy.

This setup makes sense to me. Thanks for the detailed description! If I moved to cam cleats (or maybe Spinlock PXR), that could free up some clutches for something like this.

Regarding the topping lift line for the boom. Our previous 26 footer had one, and it liked to snag on a batten pocket. The Olson came with a rod vang and if I had known how pleasing this would be, I would have converted the prior boat!

Haven't had that problem, but a rigid vang is something I'd like to have. I should probably replace my mainsail that looks more like a blown-out bedsheet before I spend on that.

 

[Kenneth K]

my mainsail that looks more like a blown-out bedsheet

Wait. I know how you blow out a sail, but how do you blow out a bedsheet?

Ah, emmm, errr, you know what? Better just forget I asked.

 

[KS Dave]

Wait. I know how you blow out a sail, but how do you blow out a bedsheet?

Ah, emmm, errr, you know what? Better just forget I asked.

Worn-out is probably what I meant... it's been a week.

And of course, it's too late to edit that...

 

[Loren Beach]

Is that like a Tylaska Boomkicker or similar, or something different?

It was a tube with an internal gas pressure cylinder lifter. The tackle would bring it down, i.e. compress it.
Less than a decade after the boat was built it had lost enough pressure that it no longer held the boom very well.

Luckily a member of my YC had designed and started building a spring-return vang, and marketing them. His design is still available, bought up by Hood Systems a long time ago. Here's a link: https://pdf.nauticexpo.com/pdf/hood-yacht-systems/performance-vang/23398-4860.html

I have always heard good things about the BoomKicker, FWIW.

 

[bigd14]

- frequently adjusted on cam cleats

For the mainsheet it’s just to hold it in place in case I need the winch for another purpose but is rarely used. For the vang is cam cleat is all I had space for.

We have a Selden Rod Kicker on the 30+. Very clean install with gas spring and integrated vang. Love it! The new to me 34-2 has a topping lift, which I dont care for. I’ll live with if for now but will probably upgrade to a solid vang soon.

Rodkicker – Seldén Mast AB

www.seldenmast.com

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@peaman @Loren Beach @bigd14
At first blush, I like the Tylaska Boomkicker geometry because it keeps it from interfering with the mid-cabin hatch. Is that even a problem with the rod units? Hydraulic or gas cylinders will eventually leak. I like the simplicity of spring action, coil or sprung rod. Are there other factors I'm missing?

@KS Dave - Back to your question, post #15 in another thread is how our lines are organized. I need to go cabin top to reef the tack, stow the jack lines, adjust the cunningham. Before we got a new main sail, the outhaul was just wishful thinking. With the new sail, we use it regularly. But, part of the way I enjoy sailing is adjusting sail trim. I try to remember to ease the jib halyard at the end of a sail. Then I try to remember to tighten it when we go out. Sigh. - We sail in different conditions so I don't know how relevant any of this will be.

 

[bigd14]

Hydraulic or gas cylinders will eventually leak.

Indeed. I had to replace the gas cylinder and it took me a couple tries to get one with the right pressure. But it’s hidden inside the tube and makes for a really clean install. Everything’s a compromise!

 

[KS Dave]

@KS Dave - Back to your question, post #15 in another thread is how our lines are organized.

Thanks, Jeff! I bookmarked that for reference.

I need to go cabin top to reef the tack, stow the jack lines, adjust the cunningham.

Oh yeah. I have a lazy jack kit to install, too. No cunningham, though...

Before we got a new main sail, the outhaul was just wishful thinking. With the new sail, we use it regularly. But, part of the way I enjoy sailing is adjusting sail trim. I try to remember to ease the jib halyard at the end of a sail. Then I try to remember to tighten it when we go out. Sigh. - We sail in different conditions so I don't know how relevant any of this will be.

I'm still learning, so I'll take any info I can get!

 

[Loren Beach]

At first blush, I like the Tylaska Boomkicker geometry because it keeps it from interfering with the mid-cabin hatch. Is that even a problem with the rod units? Hydraulic or gas cylinders will eventually leak. I like the simplicity of spring action, coil or sprung rod. Are there other factors I'm missing?

Reversing that hatch is quite do-able, if it conflicts with a hard vang. Remove, epoxy the holes, re-drill, and reinstall.
When it opens facing aft there is way less chance of inhaling spray going to weather.