• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Sail Pack, Lazy Jacks or Nothing ?

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Traditional sail covers are open along the bottom (I had to add mesh to mine to keep the birds out). I suppose a Stack-pack would eliminate the bird problem, but it seems like it wouldn't provide any ventilation like an open-bottomed sail cover does. I wonder if Stack-pack users have more problems with mold (especially in damp climates)? Also, not crazy about the appearance of the pack when the sail is raised.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
Traditional sail covers are open along the bottom (I had to add mesh to mine to keep the birds out). I suppose a Stack-pack would eliminate the bird problem, but it seems like it wouldn't provide any ventilation like an open-bottomed sail cover does. I wonder if Stack-pack users have more problems with mold (especially in damp climates)? Also, not crazy about the appearance of the pack when the sail is raised.
Ken, Not seen on in the photo of my lazy bag are mesh vents along the bottom. I’ll try and get better photos of it next time.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One thing Bob's Stack Pack eliminates is rainwater running down the lazy jack lines and under the sail cover. There's no way around that if you choose a traditional slotted cover, which also, as I complained earlier, has an awful lotta snaps.

1-IMG_3957.JPG
 

ddoles

Member III
On various boats I've used lazy jacks, stack packs and dutchman systems. They all have pros and cons, as have already been described. On my current boat, I go the traditional route and use nothing. The sail goes up and down easily. When it comes to flaking it, I can manage that single handed without much trouble. The autopilot and some sea room helps. And there's nothing that makes you feel like a sailor more than flaking the main in high wind and seas. If I was a racer with ample crew I would keep it simple and go traditional.
 

gadangit

Member III
Tides track, lazy jacks, traditional sail cover. I rarely adjust the lazy jacks when raising or dropping the main. Sail cover fits just fine.
20200605_123241.jpg
 

shepherdsond

Member I
Tides track, retractable lazy jacks, & traditional sail cover on my E33RH. Works well for me when shorthanded, you quickly learn a few tricks for getting the battens past the lazy jacks.
 

K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
Tides track, retractable lazy jacks, & traditional sail cover on my E33RH. Works well for me when shorthanded, you quickly learn a few tricks for getting the battens past the lazy jacks.
I think this is the approach I’m going to go with . The tides track is coming next week. I’ll have a traditional sail cover made and I’ll research the retractable lazy jack setups afterwards . I do have a tiller autopilot , so I may be able to get my act together well enough on the flaking to take my time on the lazy jack setup..
Are able to hoist your main on your 33 without a winch with the tides setup ?
 

shepherdsond

Member I
I can just get the main up without the winch but I do it at the mast so I can use my body weight. I have a cleat near the base of the mast (on both sides - I use them for spin halyards also when single handing) so I can temporarily cleat it there before I go aft and take in the slack through the clutch, the halyard snaps out of the mast cleat when tension is put on it from the cockpit. Having said that I often take in the last few feet on the winch, I have a heavy main. When raising, if the top batten is not lined up between the lazy jacks I can usually just push the boom a few inches while I pull on the halyard to get it past, the other battens are not a problem. I have a wheel and I usually use my AP set on 0 degrees apparent wind during this process (if I am single handing).
 
Last edited:

Gaviate

Member III
Whist changing all rigging an my E27, I added cheek blocks to mast and led some 1/8" line to enable lazy jack install in next couple of weeks. I am definately opting for a retractable design which basically just requires extra line at the cleat to be able to "lower" the jacks (would this be a halyard for lazy jacks?). I'm going to rig the legs of the jacks with butterfly knots rather than blocks or rings, thinking that there is little strain to worry about when deploying or retracting and when doing its job (catching the main) its pretty much in a static position. Anxious to see if it works....soon.
 

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
IMAG1737_1.jpg
I couldn't find a good picture of the lazy jacks deployed, but here's one of the thimbles I used from the control lines to the cradle (probably not the right term, but close enough). I thought about splicing an eye in the other end of the control lines just below the cheek blocks then attaching a single line down to the cleat. It would make it easier to deploy and stow, but you wouldn't be able to adjust each side individually (for better or worse).

I got the basic design from a set http://www.porttownsendrigging.com/ sells. I spoke to them at the Seattle boat show a few years ago and he sold me on the design then said "you can probably do it yourself, save some money, and learn how to splice", so I did.

Spliced thimbles seem to work best, because they have very little for the sail to catch on but still provide a low friction surface for the lines to run through while deploying or stowing them. Knots can also catch and come undone then you're left climbing the mast to retrieve a control line, but they do provide the ability to adjust the system. If I had to do it over again, the only change I would make is using small diameter dyneema for the lower section. Even easier to splice, less friction to rub against the sail, and you can use a really small diameter line (I had to increase the line size to get a double braid I could splice an eye into)
 
Last edited:

steven

Sustaining Member
I use the permanent hanger line approach, and drop the crib lines vertically instead of at an angle. Only use two verticals, each about 4 inches in from the end of a full batten. This way the battens cannot catch on the vertical crib lines. Does not work on every boat. But if you look at older descriptions of lazy jacks before they were commercialized (1970s or earlier), they were often drawn this way.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
I hate my retractable lazy jack lines on my 911! On my old E27 I had a vinyl flap sewn on the inside of the sail cover to cover the lazyjack openings. Kept all UV out. If that's the only reason to make them retractable, I have several reasons to make them fixed! The extra step of raising and lowering them, trying to stow them within the cover (one or two lines always leak out), the extra line noise at the mast, adjustment for slack when sailing requires a trip to the mast. My fixed setup had the slack length adjustment on the boom. Super easy. These things are history! I am intent on fixing them to be fixed!
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Not likely 59 (8 more than I currently have. Who makes your covers?) and even if it was, it would still be better than this non-sense. I sail maybe 3-4 times a week during the season and I can already tell that retractable is just not going to work for me. Now If i sailed once or twice a month, that might be different.
 

K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
Hood sails will be making the cover . My boom is 14’ so there would be some added complications/fasteners/cost in making a cover to go around fixed lazy jacks. The rigger will be coming by and I’ll see what he has in mind with the retractable design . From what he said , it didn’t sound like a big deal to retract / deploy them using his setup and there are some advantages if they do work . I haven’t made any decisions at this point other than the tides mast track which is going in tomorrow.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
For what it's worth, you can probably have lazy jack slots added to a new mainsail cover later.

However, if you make the new cover with slots (ah, those lovely 55 fasteners), changing your mind means lotsa patches.
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
Never underestimate the power of a 176-year old man ! Thanks for the video Christian. I have enjoyed watching all of them.

I just did a quick check on sailboatdata.com, the E-33 has 303 ft2 of main sail area, well under the 380 for your E381. Sails are UK carbon tape (I think they are 5-10 years old) so not sure how weight of mylar (assuming carbon is negligible) compares to dacron.

At any rate, I am getting very excited about the Tides install coming up next week. I was going to order the parts and do it myself, but the sailmaker has to modify the sail anyway so I'm going to leave it up to a pro. He's coming to the dock and apparently he can do the grommet installation right there. Hoping he can give me some advice while he's at it.

K2M,

Your option #1 With a lazy jack system which is retractable would be the best option, IMHO. That way you don’t need a slotted sail cover And the lazy jacks are only deployed at the time you are dropping the main. Otherwise they are stowed at the mast, relatively out of the way and mostly unseen. That is what I use, although I don’t have the Tides sailtrack, which should be great for your use.
 

K2MSmith

Sustaining Member
K2M,

Your option #1 With a lazy jack system which is retractable would be the best option, IMHO. That way you don’t need a slotted sail cover And the lazy jacks are only deployed at the time you are dropping the main. Otherwise they are stowed at the mast, relatively out of the way and mostly unseen. That is what I use, although I don’t have the Tides sailtrack, which should be great for your use.
Keith, Yes, this is my default solution right now based on what I've read and the info in several threads on this forum. The tides track was supposed to come in today and installed tomorrow but it looks like the shipping tracking shows it coming in thursday and Robin of Hood Sails will install it for me and make necessary modes to the mainsail (mostly adding grommets to fasten the Tides tracks cars) on friday. I'll probably first just have a regular sail cover made and then lazy jacks are next after. I have spoken to a well regarded rigger here in the bay area and he has given me some ideas. He is a fan of a two-line retractable setup. I'll have to see exactly what that means (we just talked on the phone). Me being more of a visual type of person, I need to see a sketch or at least have him explain it to me on the boat.

First experiment after the track install is to see how adept I am at hoisting the main myself with current halyard setup/winch (if needed). (which I need to do as a SH'er). Once that is installed, I'd like to go for a sail again - in which case I'll get some practice flaking the sail myself. Lazy jacks are next on the list.. I have a tiller autopilot which will help but I have to see if I can set it up to talk to my raymarine wind direction instrument. Lots of fun projects !
 

windblown

Member III
Another vote for Dutchman here. With our Tides track, it makes dropping and flaking the main on our 32-3 quite manageable.
 
Top