Solar Panels

John Wressell

Member II
I'm interested in adding a solar panel to my 1983 35, Mark III. Looking for it to do trickle charging to the two batteries. Would be interested in suggestions as to maker, etc. Thinking of mounting it on the forward hatch. The Kyocera model KC65T looks interesting.

Many thanks.

John Wressell
 

NateHanson

Sustaining Member
If all you're looking for is a trickle charge for your batteries while the boat is sitting idle, then you can get away alot smaller than 65w. That's a pretty decent sized panel. Something like that can contribute to your charging while cruising, which is nice because it means less engine-running just to top off the batteries. But if all you really need/want is trickle charging, then something in the 20w range is probably plenty.
 

valentor

Member II
John;

Several years ago, I redesigned my electrical system and added a 5W panel to trickle charge the batteries. I swore by it because my batteries maintained a very near full charge even when sitting on the mooring for several weeks. In the winter, I would attach the collector to the cover to keep the batteries charged. I assumed the collector was working wonders.

Then one winter, I started storing the boat inside. To my shock and awe, the batteries retained a near full charge all winter with no collector. The batteries were left on the boat with the loads disconnected.

The next season, I left the collector at home and had no apparent need to trickle charge the cells.

Admittedly, the system has two 105AH AGM house batteries as well as a small starting battery, very large wires, a smart regulator, monitor, and a large alternator. I put a lot of thought and research into the system. But I rarely have access to shore power to use the charger and yet the casual engine use seems to be enough to maintain the batteries.

Regards;

-Steve
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Steve what are you using for an alternator? I have the identical setup as you with the exception of 105 AH Gels. I upgraded all the wiring, run an echocharge combiner for the starting battery and use the monitor and smart regualtor. I have an older 80amp alt. that I am thinking of replacing. Looks like I can go up to 100amp with the 3/8" belt that my engine runs. If I shoot for 40% of battery bank as an ideal alternator I should be looking for 84 amp alt. Curious to see what you run. My bank stays pretty full with rarely plugging in as well. I will sometimes use the charger after a lot of night sailing with little engine use. I try to keep the boat unplugged as I dont have a galvanic isolator and my heat exchanger zinc is a PITA to change.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Hi Ted,
I have stuck with the factory 50 amp (55?) Moto alternator, on the theory that its output should be about 25% of the battery bank. My house bank is about 235 AH, and we never run it down very far.
More alternator amps and external control would certainly lead to shorter engine run times, I must admit.
I suspect that there is more than one valid method for determining this charge vs storage ratio for each boat and its type of use.
:rolleyes:

If you ever travel to my area, lets go sailing and talk about all this interesting electrical trivia...
(Our wives will probably flee to the nearest mall!)
:)

Cheers,
Loren in PDX
 

rgoff

Member III
I've had a small panel, about one square foot, on my E27 for over 20 years. It provides around 0.4 to 0.5 amps charge at max (under 10 watts). I have it mounted on the split backstay, which points it due south.

I have 2 group 24 batteries and they are always at full charge when I come down to the boat. Location is sunny Southern California, which helps.

One advantage to staying with a small panel like this is that you don't need a charge controller. Not enough output from this panel to overcharge the batteries. Downside is that if you want some charge while cruising to make up for battery usage, you don't get much.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Not knowing much about the solar route I wonder at what size panel do you get into the need for a charge controller? I would not mind adding a solar panel for some charging help but would want to keep it as simple as possible.
 

rgoff

Member III
I'm not sure of the "crossover" point. The more batteries you have the more amps you could put into them w/o a charge controller. With my 0.5 amp panel, I've never seen the battery voltage get over about 14.1 volts, which is about the limit. I charge 2 batteries in parallel.

Here's a reference re this:
http://www.solar-electric.com/charge_controls/solar_charge_controllers.htm

You're not taking about big bucks for a simple controller. This one is $30 for up to 4.5 amps. Very simple to install. Two wires from solar panel connect to controller input and 2 controller outputs connect to battery.

http://store.solar-electric.com/sg-4.html

BTW, this place is a pretty good source for solar stuff (and info). I bought a 125w (7 amp) panel and hi-tech controller from them for my RV. Very happy with it.
 
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Captron

Member III
Solar Charging

You can get a small solar charger at Harbor Freight Tools for about $12. I put one on my camper to maintain the battery while it's in storage ... works well.

On my Ericson 38 which we cruise to the Bahamas each winter for 6 months, we have a Kyocera KC120 120 watt solar panel. I wish I had bought two of them. They're not sold anymore. The jury is still out on whether to add a wind generator.

Anyway, we run a lot of stuff on our boat. Adler-Barbour air cooled fridge, sat phone, sat radio, SSB, VHF, fans, lots of lights, radar, below decks autopilot, computer, TV, two GPSs, vacuum cleaner, various tools, etc. We've replaced the lights we use the most with fluorescents. I get ice in my sundowner every evening.

I also have put a lot of thought into our 12v system and lots of work rewiring everything. I run two Group 31 Gel-cells as a house bank (190 amp hours) and a group 24 gel-cell starting battery. I installed a Xantrex TM-500 battery monitor, upgraded all the cables, use a West battery combiner to charge the start battery, installed a Blue Seas master switch panel, Xantrex 40 amp shore power charger, Xantrex Pro 1800 inverter, Balmar 65 amp alternator with Smart Regulator. The solar panel feeds through a 15amp controller.

When cruising we always motor sail to provide power for everything. When we're anchored we end up running the engine between an hour and two hours a day. Overnight, we typically end up with battery voltage about 12.4-12.6v and the accumulated amp hours used is typically 50 to 70 probably depending on the sun from the day before. Generally I stop the engine when we've recovered the 50-70 amp hours and the voltage is at least 14. The regulator(s) are all set at a max of 14.1 to avoid boiling out the electrolyte.

I have an old spare alternator that's about 110 amps that fits our 5432 installation and I'm thinking about swapping it for the Balmar to reduce our engine run times. The Gel-cells will accept charging rates at up to 50% of capacity (bulk rate) so the initial charging at least could go faster with the big alternator.

I'll likely buy AGM batteries next time around since they offer 105 amp hour capacity in the same size case. The batteries I have are dated 2000 and we've owned the boat 4 years now so I'll likely need to bite the bullet soon. (how can you tell before they fail?)

During the day with bright sun on the panel, the best I've seen on the battery monitor is about 7 amps but that figure is net of whatever is running at the time and of course winter solar angles are lower. By dark when we start using lights, the net amp hours used is typically less than 10 and often is zero. So what that means is that during the day, our solar panel keeps up with our demand pretty much. Consider that we run the engine first thing in the morning so the solar panel is starting from a fully charged (or nearly so) position.

Many people are amazed that we get by with less than 200 amp hours of batteries. Most cruisers I know have massive 400-800 amp hour house banks.

IMHO the only thing they gain with bigger battery banks is that they can go longer between charges. Instead of an hour each day, they can postpone charging for a few days but then they have more amp hours to recover and so run longer. Of course, wind generators and/or more solar panels change that equation.

Uhhh, what was the question?

Oh yeah, if you cruise like we do, a good solar set-up is hard to beat. I wish we had 200-250 watts. If you need more than that, and you sail where the wind blows pretty steady, think about a wind generator. I'm not a fan of wind power ... I think they add complexity, noise, and lots of drag but what do I know. Keep in mind that a wind generator won't be very effective while sailing but then we spend most of our time at anchor anyway.

If you just want to maintain a fully charged battery bank between weekends, go for the smallest, cheapest, plug-in solar panel/charger going.:egrin:
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
The batteries I have are dated 2000 and we've owned the boat 4 years now so I'll likely need to bite the bullet soon. (how can you tell before they fail?)

End of life is usually defined for the warranty as when the battery can no longer maintain 10.5 volts when putting out 80% of nameplate amp-hours. This is not really meaningful for the way we use the house bank.

A more meaningful end of life point is when you have to charge more frequently than you want. If you are worried about catastrophic failure replace them now, or keep the two batteries electrically separated so one failure doesn't take out both. Redundancy is the only safety factor. The starting battery doesn't help much if you are several days away from a replacement source for the house bank. Cold beer is important. :cool:
 

valentor

Member II
Ted;

Sorry for the late reply - I've been spending a lot of time at the boatyard :)

I used a standard Ballmar unit, which is designed for the A-4. I think it is small case, 100 Amp, dual-output unit. It's been 6 years since I installed it, I don't remember exactly which one it is. I didn't change the pully, but had to fabricate a new mounting/adjustment bracket.

-Steve
 
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