Standing rigging estimates?

[Loren Beach]

I will restate that 17K is a very hefty sum for this type work

Only if you can't afford it.

The cost for having 'stuff' done on boats is somewhere around $150./hour. Give or Take (probably depending on where you are, as well). It does not matter to the worker if they are wrenching/glassing/painting/wiring a clapped out cheapie or your well-maintained Ericson.

I find that whether I put in my time (inefficient and wasteful as my labor tends to be) or my money for someone else to do my boat work..... it costs me. Having owned and worked on sporty-ish cars back when I was rallying and auto crossing, the basic math always applies. From the comments of friends with aircraft, my hobby is ten cents to their dollar, so I guess I am having as much fun as I can afford... !
Most of us here seem to enjoy being very hands-on, luckily!

 

[Bolo]

It was tongue-in-cheek, but I am quite amazed at the price tag nonetheless. That's basically half the price of what a nice 32-3 costs--especially in this economy where boats are starting to sit for years!

For 17K (or a little more), I would hope to buy a new mast and all new rigging. Last time I re-rigged a boat was in 2019 and it was an 1987 Ericson 38-200 in Southwest Florida. It cost me about $2,100 for all new wire and swaged fittings and the rigger did the work in the yard on the ground. I believe he was supplied by Hayn and he made everything on-site, in his work van. He also came to the boat after to tension the rig in the water.

For what it's worth, I ran a mobile marine repair business (including some sailboats) in the Annapolis area for three years from 2021-2024 and charged $145/hour by the end, so I do think I have a handle on how much things can and should cost in this area.

I will restate that 17K is a very hefty sum for this type work, depending on how exhaustive. My bet is that yards to the south and north of Annapolis like Herrington Harbor would do it for substantially less--I bet even Jabin would have been much less since they have competition between contractors. I push back because I think you paid much above the going rate and I don't want it to scare other Ericson owners from doing this type of work--even those in the Annapolis area.

Did that price include painting I hope? Did it include removing and rebedding chainplates?--which is the real weakness on Ericsons (I know because I broke one on passage that could have taken the rig with it had I not caught it).

But hey, it's your boat and your money and if you got it and don't mind dishing it out, then I can see how one would be happy with having such work done for him, no matter the cost: you can't put a price on peace of mind. I'm glad it worked out for you and that you're happy with the work at Port Annapolis! It is a nice marina and I almost kept (and lived on) another Ericson there in 2022.

Well agin, and I’m sorry for possibly repeating myself, I first have no experience in the extensive rigging of a sailboat. Yes, I could have looked at countless YouTube videos and postings on this site but that doesn’t match pure experience. I’m also having some professional gel coat work done because I’ve never done gel coat before. It’s a large area on the cabin top and want to look right the first time. In most cases when you do anything the first time you’re not going to do a good job with it. Second I live two hours from the boat which in itself is a problem with projects of this sort. Third, there’s my age. My “sell by date” is sort of within sight and I’d rather spend my time sailing than rigging. I’ve been blessed with a rewarding career that allowed me to invest and be rewarded with enough discretionary income to afford a professional 17k rigging job. Fourth, boats (of any kind) are not a good investment and anyone who thinks they are is a fool but they are a lot of fun and worth investing in.

Annapolis is not a cheap area for owning or maintaining a boat. But it does have it‘s advantages as far as sailing goes and the number of highly skill people who service vessels. I’ve had my yard work on my Ericson before and they have a good track record so having them do the work rather then another yard was an easy choice.

 

[bumbugo]

$140 to $150 seems to be the going rate for a rigger around here in St. Petersburg. The biggest problem sailboat owners face is that 4 yards recently closed after being bought out by a developer. One remains. These yards have been operating for many decades. So if you want to haul your boat or remove the mast to be rerigged and rewired there is a long wait and higher cost, unless you take your boat a long distance to an area with more services.

 

[Drewm3i]

$140 to $150 seems to be the going rate for a rigger around here in St. Petersburg. The biggest problem sailboat owners face is that 4 yards recently closed after being bought out by a developer. One remains. These yards have been operating for many decades. So if you want to haul your boat or remove the mast to be rerigged and rewired there is a long wait and higher cost, unless you take your boat a long distance to an area with more services.

The cruising lifestyle is dying in South Florida, I am afraid. I can't believe how many once-great marinas and boatyards have been bought up by developers and Loggerhead/Safe Harbor.

 

[Drewm3i]

Well agin, and I’m sorry for possibly repeating myself, I first have no experience in the extensive rigging of a sailboat. Yes, I could have looked at countless YouTube videos and postings on this site but that doesn’t match pure experience. I’m also having some professional gel coat work done because I’ve never done gel coat before. It’s a large area on the cabin top and want to look right the first time. In most cases when you do anything the first time you’re not going to do a good job with it. Second I live two hours from the boat which in itself is a problem with projects of this sort. Third, there’s my age. My “sell by date” is sort of within sight and I’d rather spend my time sailing than rigging. I’ve been blessed with a rewarding career that allowed me to invest and be rewarded with enough discretionary income to afford a professional 17k rigging job. Fourth, boats (of any kind) are not a good investment and anyone who thinks they are is a fool but they are a lot of fun and worth investing in.

Annapolis is not a cheap area for owning or maintaining a boat. But it does have it‘s advantages as far as sailing goes and the number of highly skill people who service vessels. I’ve had my yard work on my Ericson before and they have a good track record so having them do the work rather then another yard was an easy choice.

I understand and your reasoning makes sense. Annapolis (and surrounding areas) is a great area for sailboats with great facilities and tons of boatyards and slips, if a bit pricey near downtown.

 

[Alan Gomes]

But it does have it‘s advantages as far as sailing goes and the number of highly skill people who service vessels. I’ve had my yard work on my Ericson before and they have a good track record so having them do the work rather then another yard was an easy choice.

Write the check and then cry once. That track records is worth quite a bit.

 

[bgary]

And yet, here we are....

That'd be funny if it wasn't so spot-on true....

 

[bumbugo]

The t-ball terminals in the mast are stainless steel inserts held in place by four rivets. Would be hard to inspect from the inside (would need an endoscope), but you can get a general feel for their condition from outside the mast. The t-fitting doesn't move inside the terminal once tightened, so I'd guess there's very little wear on the terminal.
View attachment 52432

I added plugs to mine to try to reduce the water that gets into the mast (Seattle rains....)
View attachment 52433

I haven't heard of swageless T-balls. How do they connect to the wire?

Hello Ken. Where did you find the plugs you added to the terminals. All of ours are missing. I'd also like to reduce the water coming into the mast.
Thanks.

 

[Kenneth K]

Where did you find the plugs you added to the terminals. All of ours are missing.

The plugs are normally used for running backstays. Since running backstays aren’t always tensioned, the plugs keep their t-ball fittings from slipping out of the mast when loosened. Standing rigging terminals wouldn’t normally have plugs because the shrouds are always held tightly in place. But, like you’re suggesting, I added them anyway to hopefully keep water from entering.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/hayn-marine-shroud-terminal-retaining-plugs

If you have terminals for running backstay, too, those probably take a smaller size plug. I bought the SHRPMO4 size for the running backstay slots.

 

[bumbugo]

Ken,

A few of my chain plates had rust stains, so I assumed they were not going to look great when I pulled them. Since I was replacing the rigging, I thought it would be best to just replace everything. I'm trying to limit the amount of time the rig is out of the boat, so I ordered all the parts before the rig was pulled including the chain plates. Garhauer turned the U bolts around in 2 weeks, so I could have just waited. 40 years was a long time on the originals, so I'm not too balled up about replacing them even though they didn't really need it.

Garhauer wanted the center to center, height above and below deck, and diameter measurements. I also provided the part number form Rig Rite and they ended up calling to discusses the project. He said that most are standard and they've made hundreds of them, but they still like to measure and, if possible, have an original part mailed to them. They all fit perfectly in the existing blocks, but I will have to cut apx. 1/2 off the bottom so they don't protrude into the headliner.

For the most part, I was able to work around the headliner, but the fitting in the head required me to remove the outboard trim and carefully work between the headliner and bottom of the deck. The other blocks were accessible through the existing slit or from the zipper. I did accidently pull the liner out of the trim by the starboard cap/int block, but I should be able to staple it under the wood trim piece.

Old u bolts:
View attachment 52165

The u bolts did need to be rebedded. Most my backing plates are in great shape, but there are 2 that have corrosion, and one will definitely need to be replaced. I'm guessing the water that caused the corrosion to both blocks actually came from port light leaks, not from the actual deck penetration.

Good Block:
View attachment 52162

Starboard Cap and int. that needs to be replaced:
View attachment 52163


I had Garhauer make new toggles to fit the u bolts. I think it was one of your posts about the difficulties of fitting toggles, that persuaded me to have this done. The u bolts are made from 1/2" diameter stock. I had the lowers drilled out to 1/2" pins to make sourcing the turnbuckle easier and have the eye fit in the toggle better. The intermediates are still 3/8" pins so there will be a small gap between the cheeks of the eye and the toggle. This is a pic of the 3/8 toggle. The 1/2" toggles are the exact same distance as the originals, but these are slightly different. I need to call Fisheris Supply today to make sure they account for the difference on the new intermediate stay.
View attachment 52164

Nick,

We replaced one U-bolt, made by Garhauer a couple of years ago. They fit perfectly. Now we are replacing the remaining bolts and all the shrouds. The new bolts we just received are a 1/2" (similar to as shown in your photo). When installed they would protrude below the headliner and wood cap. Garhaur says "just cut them to length". How are you handling the longer length bolt?

 

[Loren Beach]

I would only caution you to place a wet rag towel beneath and around the area you are using the right-angle grinder. That threaded end that falls off after all the flying bits and sparks will be red hot for a moment. (Why, yes, I do have some personal experience with that problem! )

 

[Nick J]

Nick,

We replaced one U-bolt, made by Garhauer a couple of years ago. They fit perfectly. Now we are replacing the remaining bolts and all the shrouds. The new bolts we just received are a 1/2" (similar to as shown in your photo). When installed they would protrude below the headliner and wood cap. Garhaur says "just cut them to length". How are you handling the longer length bolt?

the plan is to put a die on the thread, cut it with a cutoff wheel on a grinder, chamfer the new cut end, and back the die off to clean up the thread. I'm still finalizing the design of the replacement backing blocks. Once they are manufactured, I'll bring everything down to the boat and do a rough install to get the length right

If yours are already installed, use Loren's advice. If you ever need to remove the u-bolt, unthreading the nut should clean up any damage the cut did to the thread.