Statistically speaking...

[u079721]

Looking at all the recent threads dealing with Ericson 38s, I was just wondering whether E38s aren't disproportionately represented on this group.

Assuming we know the number of each model Ericson that was produced, (is that info somewhere on this site?) I wonder how closely those numbers figure in the threads that are generated about each model. For that matter, how many of each model are still actively sailing?

Do we see more posts about E38s becuase the type of person who owns one tends to have a desk job with a computer who checks the board several times a day, while the type of person who owns an Eriscon 27 has a real job without a computer?

All of which just proves that I need to quit daydreaming and get back to my desk job.

 

[Kevin Johnston]

I have seen this list some where else on this site but this link can get you the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericson_Yachts

It would be interested to see the treads tallied as it relates to boat lengths. From an E27 owner,
KJ

 

[rwthomas1]

Maybe its that the 38 is a larger boat. Larger boats have more systems, more to go wrong, more to maintain, etc. They cost a bit more so the owners spend more to keep them up. If Ericson made more/larger boats then maybe there would be even more questions about them? Its an interesting question for sure. RT

 

[Mark F]

I was thinking there was a lot E23 action lately.

 

[sleather]

It's Gooood!

I was thinking there was a lot E23 action lately.

There's been a few "new folks" lately(that's good) and I guess WE have real jobs
(I work @ home) and COMPUTERS There's been some good E27 chatter too!

E23-1---165 Produced--14 registered

E23-2---270 Produced--27+registered

E38I, II, III---195 Produced--76 registered+ the new "lookers"--much higher %age

My 1st "post" was a ? about hull numbers, Sean provided the link(.txt file)http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3766&highlight=HIN

 

[Jeff Asbury]

"Do we see more posts about E38s because the type of person who owns one tends to have a desk job with a computer who checks the board several times a day, while the type of person who owns an Eriscon 27 has a real job without a computer?"

I work as a Graphic Designer and work on a Computer with not only a desk, but an office. I also own a E-27. I am in front of this dam computer about 50 hours a week so I check this site several times a day because "I would rather be sailing". I have also noticed all the E-38 posting lately and my theory is that the E-38's are larger and therefore more complicated boats with more stuff to maintain. In the early years of the restoration of my E-27 I made probably hundreds of postings. Now that I have completed my restoration of my E-27 and have made her into a very reliable Coastal Cruiser with many modern upgrades I don't have many more questions. I do offer my personal experience when I see that some one needs help. I believe they made about 1301 E-27s and I see more of them than any other Ericson models still on the water.

I owe a lot to EY.org for all the help I have been provided with over the years and contribute as often as I can.

 

[bigtyme805]

Jeff has a good point, I think that lately there have been several new owners of E38's and quite frankly it looks like they need help with their systems.

I have noticed a lot of them for sale at Yachtworld and boats.com so we will probably see many more postings.

What Ericson model was produced the most? If anybody knows this answer please post it.

 

[u079721]

I have also noticed all the E-38 posting lately and my theory is that the E-38's are larger and therefore more complicated boats with more stuff to maintain.QUOTE]


First off let me note that my comment about people with "real" jobs and smaller boats and no computers was all tongue in cheek, and I apologise if my poor attempt at humor offended anyone.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with Jeff's point about the larger boats being more complicated. I thought about that when I became a slave to my own E38 years ago. I figured that (at least initially) the 38 had the same systems as a 32 or even a 27 footer. Put another way, getting a smaller boat would not necessarily be easier to maintain from a systems point of view. Inboard engine, hot and cold pressurized water, electrical, instruments, refrigeration, running rigging, standing rigging - a modern 27 footer has the same as a 38 footer.

Of course everything on the 38 is bigger, meaning more to wax and clean. But from a systems point of view, I concluded that it didn't make much difference what the boat size was. I didn't know anything about any of these systems, and was going to have to learn how to maintain them, and even smaller boats had all of them. And since I wanted to be able to do overnight crossings of the Great Lakes on my cruises, I figured the bigger boat would give me greater range. So I went big.

From a maintenance point of view I never really considered the larger boat to be a mistake. Damned expensive - yes. But not really more work (except when it came time to wax the hull).

Of course the danger with a larger boat is that you have the room to install even more complicated systems, like RADAR, water makers, a windlass, and so on. That's what really gets you into trouble.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Not at all offended Steve. I have always read your postings with much respect for your experience. Just taking advantage of that statement because I really hate being in front of this machine all day rather than being on the water. Some systems I don't have to worry about are refrigeration, wheel steering, propane heating or stoves, pressure water systems, electric heads and so on. I know some E-27s have all that but most don't. Personally the less stuff to worry about the better.

Don,

I believe I read once in a review of the E-27 in Practical Sailor that Ericson produced more E-27's than any other model.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Oh yeah, I installed a radar (love it!) and wish I could afford a windless.

 

[sleather]

Same Boat?

First off let me note that my comment about people with "real" jobs and smaller boats and no computers was all tongue in cheek, and I apologise if my poor attempt at humor offended anyone.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with Jeff's point about the larger boats being more complicated.

No offence taken! My responce was also "TIC"
I wonder sometimes why I do this as a "computer break"????
I just "love this site"(and my little Ericson) Recent events have separated me from a strong sailing community!

I also agree on your "complication" statement. The only thing missing from the equation, in the smallest of boats, is refrigeration, hot water and holding tanks! Outboards have their own issues(compairable to IB's)! Plus WE have trailers to contend with! I have most of the electronics, except RADAR(on my little Pond?, some Do) Hence the name "Pocket Yacht"!

The difference boils down to "load factors"(hardware size), repetition of systems and pure"acreage to maintain"!
Aside from that we're ALL in the same boat

BTW I haven't crunched all the numbers from the "list" but I think the E27's have it "hands down"!

 

[Loren Beach]

That said, I'm not sure I agree with Jeff's point about the larger boats being more complicated. I thought about that when I became a slave to my own E38 years ago. I figured that (at least initially) the 38 had the same systems as a 32 or even a 27 footer. Put another way, getting a smaller boat would not necessarily be easier to maintain from a systems point of view. Inboard engine, hot and cold pressurized water, electrical, instruments, refrigeration, running rigging, standing rigging - a modern 27 footer has the same as a 38 footer.

Of course everything on the 38 is bigger, meaning more to wax and clean. But from a systems point of view, I concluded that it didn't make much difference what the boat size was. I didn't know anything about any of these systems, and was going to have to learn how to maintain them, and even smaller boats had all of them. And since I wanted to be able to do overnight crossings of the Great Lakes on my cruises, I figured the bigger boat would give me greater range. So I went big.

From a maintenance point of view I never really considered the larger boat to be a mistake. Damned expensive - yes. But not really more work (except when it came time to wax the hull).

Of course the danger with a larger boat is that you have the room to install even more complicated systems, like RADAR, water makers, a windlass, and so on. That's what really gets you into trouble.

I agree with Steve (not like that's unusual!). Every increase in size and displacement brings some added systems and the maintenance that they entail. When we moved up from a 26 footer to a 34, the water became pressurized and hot and cold. Inboard engine and charging. Soon, an added refreigeration unit and some increased battery capacity. And, as noted, a LOT more boat to try to wax.

Upon further pondering this thread, it seemed like there *must* be a lot more room for systems and such as boats get larger -- like over 50 or over 60. Thinking back to our visits to boat shows over the decades, this is really just *not* so.

More likely, builders of all the lower and middle $$ production boats are totally driven by the marketing need to show a large open interior and there is about the same number of cubic feet devoted to machinery in all these designs from 30 feet on up -- i.e. Not Very Darned Much.

Thinking back to visits aboard the high end boats, however, that's where they can cater to a more boat-educated market that will gladly accept reduced dance floor space for lots better machinery and associated systems access. Once you get over a certain price and/or quality point, you start seeing space devoted to a workbench (!) , for instance, and real space around the engine. Batteries, maybe a gen. set, compressors, filters, pumps, electrical measuring and distribution, etc. are located where one can sit down comfortable and change out parts and store the spares.

Hmmm.... getting away from Ericson 38's... Set rant mode back to "idle."

Loren

 

[G Kiba]

Couldn't Agree More

I agree with Jeff. I own an E27, work on a computer all day, and would much rather be out on the water. I too, check this site more often than i'd like to admit. Sharing and reading about my E27 experience breaks up the work day.

 

[Kevin Johnston]

Stats

Looking at all the recent threads dealing with Ericson 38s, I was just wondering whether E38s aren't disproportionately represented on this group.

Assuming we know the number of each model Ericson that was produced, (is that info somewhere on this site?) I wonder how closely those numbers figure in the threads that are generated about each model. For that matter, how many of each model are still actively sailing?

Do we see more posts about E38s becuase the type of person who owns one tends to have a desk job with a computer who checks the board several times a day, while the type of person who owns an Eriscon 27 has a real job without a computer?

All of which just proves that I need to quit daydreaming and get back to my desk job.

It looks like the search engine internal to this site has some maximum limits (n=500) because when you search number of posts or threads with E38 or E27 you see 500 posts for both but when you search E23 (338 posts and 207 threads) and E25 (257 posts and 189 threads). So, the E23 and E25 have some catching up to do.

Sean, can the number of posts/threads searched be increased beyond 500. Can that be tallied some where on the site? Just curious.
KJ

 

[rwthomas1]

Maybe I should clarify my thoughts.... The larger the boat the more it is worth, potentially. Smaller boats seem to be bought and sold for fairly cheap money. This seems to particularly evident as the boats age. It would seem that there is much more potential for neglect when the boat didn't cost the owner much to begin with. The bigger the investment the more likely the boat will be maintained. Not that I condone the neglect of ANY boat..... RT

 

[sleather]

We're Trying!

When you search E23 (338 posts and 207 threads) and E25 (257 posts and 189 threads). So, the E23 and E25 have some catching up to do.

Having sailing "in my blood" thru all of my adult life I found it quite natural and challenging to tackle all of my maintenance and design issues myself. Since joining, it's apparent that I could have taken a few short-cuts on some very daunting projects! Therefore w/ 22 years of experience on my E23 I am here to "serve" and to learn what I need to know for the "next step"!

I also feel that the "small boat folks" are less adventurous about making modifications to their boats, NEW to sailing perhaps. And possibly intimidated by their "larger" brothers.

 

[sleather]

Further Clarification Req'd!

Maybe I should clarify my thoughts.... The larger the boat the more it is worth, potentially. Smaller boats seem to be bought and sold for fairly cheap money. This seems to particularly evident as the boats age. It would seem that there is much more potential for neglect when the boat didn't cost the owner much to begin with. The bigger the investment the more likely the boat will be maintained. Not that I condone the neglect of ANY boat..... RT

Rob, After your "contribution" in "Why..... I find your statement about SIZE, as a factor in neglect, a bit perplexing!

I know in MY case the size of my boat is based purely on it's use(small lake & transportable). I have seen "over & over" inordinate amounts of time, effort(love) and money poured into "small craft"! Quite often bringing boats of questionable value "back from the brink"! I am working w/ a young college student right now, on HIS project! In his case "youthful enthusiasm"(time) offsets the cost of having the repairs done by a "professional"!

A person buys "The Boat" they can afford! Not everyone can afford, or needs, a BIG boat!
ALL "neglect" is a personality defect of the OWNER, big or small! JMHO

 

[Bob in Va]

Question

What's "hot water?"

 

[Bob in Va]

Chacun a' son gout...

The big ones sure are nice for anything past a day-sail, but I wouldn't trade my E23 for anything larger right now because it is close to a perfect combination of the qualities I need for the lake sailing I do. It takes us less than 10 minutes from arrival at the marina to easing out of the slip, all pertinent systems having been checked, gear stowed, motor lowered, tiller attached, and docklines cast off. The boat is easy to singlehand, competitive in local handicap racing, sleeps two comfortably (well, semi-comfortably), can be taken into thin water (draws 2' board and rudder up), and can be loaded on the trailer, unrigged, and pulled home by me and a buddy with no professional help. I've never paid a cent for hauling/launching or storage (well, a tank of gas for the buddy's truck - mine is too small to tow this boat.) Refrigeration? Hot water? Heat? Radar? Don't really need 'em for one or two day outings. Parts are relatively cheap because they are smaller, and some I can make myself. So what we lose in self sufficiency we make up in getting out more often, at less expense, for shorter intervals. As in most other endeavors, trade-offs occur. Great point about bigger boats being kept in better shape because they represent a much more sizeable investment - I see lots in the 22' - 28' range that are badly neglected. Jeff, every time I see your boat's name, I smile a little - back in the 60's the race car guys at Riverside used to comment on the sandy winds blowing through there. When they ran a high-dollar Ferrari or Maserati down the straight at 7500 rpm with no air cleaner, they called it getting a "Cucamonga re-bore."

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Glad "Pride Of Cucamonga's" name is still making people smile. I get a lot of comments on the dock, on the water & on line about it.

After reading your blog about the pros of your E-23 trailer sailor, I do miss the advantages and low over head of a trailerable boat. I used to own a MacGregor 22' trailer sailor. Not really even comparable to the qualities of a E-23 but I sailed it everywhere, from the offshore Channel Islands to Lake Isabella in the Sierra's. One thing I always wanted to do was tow it down to Baja or even Lake Mead & Lake Powell. Try to do that with a E-38. I have read several articles about trailerable boats and they always point out that they can double as a RV. Example, you can sleep in them at camp grounds or on the side of the road for that matter. Talk about easily changing Latitudes!