Sustainability

[Loren Beach]

While they think their newer boats require less maintenance, we all know nature, water, and UV have time on their side. Add in rapid depreciation for those newer production boats (that result in ”under water” loans with the re-sale value less than the balance due), and I think we clearly have made the wisest investment choices.

Great Wisdom here. Any boat over ten years old should be named, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, the "SV Entropy" . And the lower the quality of the initial build, the faster it deteriorates, and the more (as in quantum leaps of $) it takes to maintain it.

 

[toddster]

There were recently a lot of nooz articles (before people got more worried about viruses) about the dilemma of dumping or recycling fiberglass wind turbine blades. More efficient design comes along, all the old blades get pulled down. Much bigger than the fiberglass boat waste stream.
e.g. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/10/759376113/unfurling-the-waste-problem-caused-by-wind-energy
A google drift shows lots of people proposing schemes for recycling and reuse. I'd think that there are all sorts of things one could make from blade sections. But maybe that would only use a fraction of them.
Projects from sailboat hulls? Dunno - there was a bandstand in a park I used to live near, made from an up-turned ferrocement hull.

 

[K2MSmith]

Yikes ! There was another boat yesterday at the marina (large powerboat) that was being salvaged from a slip) - a multi gas powered pump operation.

Re-builds are good. Junk-yards are

 

[K2MSmith]

Is there a serious problem here? Fiberglass is almost completely inert/indestructible, and there is lots of space for landfills. Sure, landfills cost money, but not that much, and so does almost everything else. I can think of many, many more important environmental challenges.

I am not thinking it's a problem if you want to build a hill . Seriously, there are many housing developments in Ventura County, CA that are built on landfills that now afford a nice view . I am not sure what complications that involves in terms of the geotechnical aspects (groundwater, drainage etc.) - that's definitely out of my wheelhouse. At some point, though the problem is limited - you just have too much junk and nowhere to put it..

 

[Kenneth K]

......and I think we clearly have made the wisest investment choices.

I can bring myself to use the terms "boat" and "investment" in the same sentence, but only after several stiff drinks.

 

[windblown]

I can bring myself to use the terms "boat" and "investment" in the same sentence, but only after several stiff drinks.

I’ll drink to that!
Some investments, like some relationships, have returns that are hard to quantify.

 

[Christian Williams]

I saved my garbage en route Hawaii so as not to pollute the ocean. I recycled it all at the dock in Kauai, like a good boy.

Then Hawaii shipped my garbage back to where I came from.

Most of Kauai's plastic is marketed to Oakland, California. From there, the end destination is Asian markets including Pralumex, Malaysia and Newport, Jakarta. These destinations fluctuate depending on market conditions and demand so new destinations may be found in the future. There are locations that are trying to mobilize to take advantage of the tonnages made available since the closure of the Chinese marketplace. It is expected to take several years for companies to build-out capacity to process the materials that China received in the past. The State of Hawaii does not have any centralized processors for recyclables so all materials must be shipped out of the State.

We make our bed and then lie in it.

 

[Teranodon]

I saved my garbage en route Hawaii so as not to pollute the ocean. I recycled it all at the dock in Kauai, like a good boy.

...

When I sailed across the Atlantic with a couple of friends, we threw all of our "organic" garbage into the water. Not plastic or metal, of course.

During the three-week passage, I spent hundreds of hours staring at the huge rollers going by. Once, yes once, I saw what might have been a piece of floating garbage. It was blue.

I remember reading a technical article about burying all spent reactor fuel (and other highly radioactive materials) in the deep abyssal plains. Basically, just dropping them down in metal containers. The analysis purported to show that the contamination of the ocean would be unmeasurable (by many orders of magnitude) even after all the material had leached into the water. Just about any isotope that lasts long enough to be harmful is already present in seawater at much higher concentrations. I found the arguments pretty convincing, but the authors admitted that politically/psychologically/sociologically/whatever the idea was a total non-starter.

 

[Christian Williams]

The Pacific reaches, not just the center of the gyre, are littered with manufactured plastic and bits of foam continually in sight. And you only see what floats.

 

[gabriel]

Plastic. Wish it wasn’t there in the ocean but there are other types pollution so close to ‘home‘ concern me:

How the waters off Catalina became a DDT dumping ground

A new generation of scientists have uncovered barrels containing DDT, a toxic pesticide banned decades ago, dumped into the deep ocean.

www.latimes.com

Alsways thought that sculpin taken off the PV peninsula tasted off, like Coca Cola.

 

[G Kiba]

I scrutinize every container and package now days and do what I can to reuse and reduce. I don't think it's enough. Don't fool yourself. We all contribute to this problem.

Plastic Wars | FRONTLINE

Watch FRONTLINE and NPR's investigation of the fight over the future of plastics.

www.pbs.org

 

[frosero7744]

When I delve into deep thoughts like this, I think of cow farts and quickly realize I need to think about something else.

its a cowspiracy

 

[Afrakes]

A very short journey from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 

[Filkee]

Is there a serious problem here? Fiberglass is almost completely inert/indestructible, and there is lots of space for landfills. Sure, landfills cost money, but not that much, and so does almost everything else. I can think of many, many more important environmental challenges.

Landfills are complicated. I served as a solid waste commissioner (I know, exciting stuff). They’re a little easier to site than nuclear power plants and correctional facilities, but I’d rather put diesel in my M-25 than the bulldozers and backhoes. We should consider ourselves stewards of the resource and try to keep these boats above ground and above the waves as long as possible.

 

[racushman]

From what I understand, you can not finance a boat that is over 30 years old. So at that point your market for selling is limited to cash buyers. Coming up with 30-60K for recreation is not easy on a budget for most people. Let alone the expense and skills needed to keep and maintain a sailboat. I think that makes most, if not all of us, a special breed of people being the many folks these days don't know how to change a flat tire.

Interesting point about not being able to finance a boat >30 years old. I recently found the bill of sale for the prior owner's purchase of my boat among some papers that came with her. He had bought before the 30 year mark, I was after. The value of the boat had effectively fallen off a cliff. Maybe that explains it.

I find it somewhat freeing that the resale value of my boat is modest at best. It empowers me to make decisions based on my own preferences and purposes. Beyond general workmanship and pride of ownership, who cares what anyone else thinks if it works for me. [Apologies to a future owner if you are someday reading this and cursing my choices]

 

[kapnkd]

When I delve into deep thoughts like this, I think of cow farts and quickly realize I need to think about something else.

In all honesty, we are in much more serious danger from politicians’ “Verbal Flatulence” than from those bovine gals grazing quietly in a field of grass.

 

[1911tex]

Our area is highly supportive and demanding recycling as it should. I have a neighbor on the extreme (not going to say what because I can't figure him out) who refuses to recycle anything, I mean anything...it is like the world owes him...........

 

[kapnkd]

Our area is highly supportive and demanding recycling as it should. I have a neighbor on the extreme (not going to say what because I can't figure him out) who refuses to recycle anything, I mean anything...it is like the world owes him...........

We should all do our best to be good stewards of the environment. It was instilled in me as a Cub & Boy Scout even back in the mid 50’s on our camping trips. Likewise, lessons learned were applied later for cruising extended periods of time and distance. Only nature’s biodegradable items were discarded into the water. Other man made (such as aluminum & plastic) items were stored until a port was reached that would accept them.

...Looking back, I now shudder to think what they did with the refuse in far away places. (So much for effort and good intentions I fear!)

Do any of us truly know where and what happens with all of our land based recycling efforts???

I’ve heard/seen reports of regular garbage and recycling trucks caught literally pulled into the same dump sites. Seems now too ...the new waste crisis is used face masks more-so than plastic bottles!! (Go figure!!!)

 

[toddster]

Color me cynical.
I live out in the boonies and haul my own trash. (And all my relations - if I didn't, they'd just dump theirs in a gulley.) I waste a lot of time curating the trash partly out of false idealism, partly practical. Don't want the trash to smell, as it only gets hauled three or four times a year. Food waste or anything "wet" goes in the compost or macerator. There's a long row of blue bins - glass, metal, plastic, paper. And metal cans for "hazardous" stuff (batteries, light bulbs, oil). Everything else gets compacted. At the transfer station, I see it all get dumped together on a big concrete pad and scooped into the same trucks headed for the landfill. They do sometimes keep the glass and paper separate. The only real advantage is it's free to dump stuff in the blue bins. Some of the former "universal" hazardous waste (e.g. fluorescent bulbs) they won't accept at all any more - just means it all goes in the regular trash.

I also run a lot of tests on products intended for "green marketing." "Whaddaya mean it didn't pass? We already printed up the labels and bought the ads! Isn't there some other test that it will pass for a bit more money?" Yeah, if they keep calling around, someone will do it for them.

 

[Christian Williams]

Packaging needs to evolve. We have a right to ask for versions of polystyrene plastic and foam with varying lifespans, and for regulation of marketing-first packing that currently serves the needs primarily of retailers.

The recycling bins of LA County are enormous. Each week the street is lined with them, overflowing. Fleets of Diesel trucks haul them away to
mystery destinations. Is recycling the answer? Nobody really thinks so. Not without redesigning the whole chain of manufacture to end of life.