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West Coast Cat Disaster

wurzner

Member III
Phil,

I kind of agree with your friend about the flipping, but only too a point. I think sooner or later, we ALL get the chance to either do a 180 or 360. That is why I favor the keel boat opposed to the cat since as bad as going all the way around is, half way is a lot worse! I do like multihulls and do agree that they are fast...really fast in certain cases and they point a lot better than they use to as well.

After just getting back from Tahiti :egrin:, we are now torn between planning a barefoot charter between somewhere around BVI and Tahiti since we loved it there SOOOO Much! Either way, it will definately be a CAT since they are readily available, have exceptional space, and most important, draw very little draft.

Definately no multihull bashing and as the french say, "chacune a sont gaut". Serious crusing for me would put a multihull out of scope. The folks doing the around the word races are nuts to begin with (or maybe I'm just too yellow!), so all there decisions are performance based.

I'd race with you on a mutli hull any day!

regards
shaun
 

Brisdon

Inactive Member
"Chacune a SON gaut, as the saying goes. My gaut is apparently a monohull. I do prefer tris to cats though. The trimaran is a four thousand year old design. I wonder though, if the ancients could have placed a 5000 pound lead weight below a 35 ft monohull fiberglass boat; would they have said "shit, lets cut bait with those pesky amas and make it a slimmer tougher package? If you don't have a great road, a Jeep is really better than a Porche. The monohull is such a great four wheeler. And Like Phil, I love my E35.
 

Jason

Fellow Ericson Owner
Is anyone familiar at all with Chris White? He wrote a book - "The Cruising Multihull" and has a website - he still designs ocean going cats:

Chris White Designs
http://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/

Seems like he has "been there, done that" and has a very safety view on ocean going cats.
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
An East Coast (Near-Disaster

I've been mostly landlocked in the Western Canadian Oil Patch the past year and a half, shoulder to the grindstone, that sort of thing.....
With some hope of fraternity I joined the Bluewater Cruising Association aka BCA that has an active chapter in Calgary, AB. Even though there was an ocean here many millenia ago you have to travel over 1000 klm west, as many from here do to find an Ocean, also the Left one BTW.
Vancouver and Victoria, BC have extremely active groups, sponsor winter training courses, bring like minded together to mutually prepare themselves for Ocean Cruising, etc. If I've understood correctly there are currently about 12 Calgary owned boats currently cruising the World. Surprising at first thought but then this is a fairly well heeeled place.
The Calgary chapter holds monthly meetings and I've managed to catch a few, typical group of sailors, have a "wet", tell stories and typically a keynote Speaker who has been engaged to entertain those gathered.
In November they had organized a local Dentist to come and speak on his Adventure in May, 06. I had somehow managed to not have heard or read antthing about this occurrance and found his story intensely interesting.
He was one of 4 joint Owners of a 45' Beneteau based in Tortola, BV. They shared expenses and I gather shared the Yacht for parts of the year. He didn't mention whether ity was in Charter service and I gathered not. Based on the Insurance Package they'd selected the Yacht would have to be out of the Caribbean for the Hurricane Season so they'd collectively decided to move her to Maine, USA
One partner with several acquaintences had sailed her from the BVI to Bermuda where another crew including our speaker, the Calgary Dentist was to take over for the leg to Rhode Island. He talked about the process of provisioning the boat for a crew of I think it was 5 for a planned 6 day trip across the Gulf Stream in a NNW direction. The weather had been unsuitable for a departure for several days. (selection of a Captain seemed to have been made based on the claimed experience of each of the individuals of that group aboard?) The nominated Skipper eventually told them they were sailing with a three day weather window and winds suitable for their intended course.
6 hours out the wind shifted directly on to the nose and stayed there. They motored straight into it for I think about 2 days. The winds were I gathered 20-25 and the Sea State got progressively worse. If I understood correctly they were carrying a bit of sail but not making any headway. On Saturday afternoon with their position deemed to be just over 200 NM off the US Mainland they decided to abandon ship? The logic being that based on the weather direction and that they were being pushed eastward they would be, by the next morning beyond the service range of Coast Guard Rescue Helicopters. (300 miles) The EPIRB was registered to the Calgary Dentist so when it was activated the first response was for Search and Rescue to attempt to phone the registered Owner. The Dentists' wife received that call. They has Sat. Telephone aboard so the Wife called the Yacht, Our Dentist had decided he would not notify her until they were safely ashore! Via Telephone they then confirmed their location to Search and Rescue and further confirmed their desire to be evacuated that day.
They were first overflown by a Hercules who I think dropped them a VHF-can't remember?
The Helicopter came on station and a man was put in the water on the winch cable to capture each crew member after he jumped overboard. By 10:00 pm that Saturday night the last of the Crew was hoisted aboard the Helicopter. I believe the closest station was North Carolina so that was the destination. No discussion had taken place with Coast Guard concerning the state of/ or sinking the boat. (Hazard to Navigation) They closed the hatch/ companionway and left.
On arrival in the US they were greeted and given every assistance in getting clothing, esentials and assistance with travel arrangements. No charges or assessments from the rescue effort was made against them by USCG/ Homeland Security.
About a week later the Dentist recieves word the Boat had been found adrift by a Norwegian LNG Carrier, taken under tow and had arrived in Boston. The only apparent damage was that done by the ships' crew while under tow, ripped out cleats I think basically.
The Ships' Owners were not interested in claiming salvage and instead accepted on behalf of the crew a voluntary sum of Money offered by the Yachts' Insurer. The boat was taken back by the Partnership and repairs completed. The Insurer offered them renewal coverage with no increase in premium subsequently and I gather they completed the trip to Maine.
At the conclusion I had two questions;
Had you lost faith in the Boat-the Answer-Yes?
Who made on the basis of the 3 day Forecast the decision to leave Bermuda-he wasn't sure?
The dentists' sailing experience consisted I think of racing small keel boats on the Resivoir in Calgary, and ecentially charter type cruising in the clear blue waters of the Caribbean. Got off very lucky I'd say.
Pretty disturbing story.....
 

MarkA

Please Contact Admin.
I'm gonna puke

Greg,

That story makes me sick.

The idiots endangered the lives of helicopter crews and rescue swimmers to avoid beating againt 20-25 kt. winds?????

I should have salvaged that shitbox and sold it to pad my Valiant 53 fund.
 

Brisdon

Inactive Member
It's weird, boats always seem to do better after the crew abandons them. Is it possible that all the panic and fear of death just hurts boats so much that they resort to suicide, and sink just to put an end to the unbearably cloying efforts of the crew to survive. My theory is that when all hope fails, you should just stay really still and fool the boat in to thinking you have already jumped off.
 

rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
If the boat is not taking on more water than you can deal with then why leave it?
If the boat is still sailable and not damaged why leave it?
Why didn't they turn and run back to where they came from?
Heave to?
I don't get it. RT
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
I don't understand why sailors who are going to make a blue water transit beyond their experience level don't hire a captain to go along. The ones I know charge $150 per day, which is cheap insurance (and you might even learn something about sailing).
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
To try to answer Rob, I would guess that in a winter storm with really big (and probably confused) seas they got themselves into a classic dilemma, where it was dangerous to go forward and equally dangerous to try and turn back. An additional surmise is that when it flipped, it happened in an instant. :boohoo:
One of our monohulls could be rolled by a big sea, but would right itself and leave us (hopefully aboard and not too injured) to sort out our mastless hull and decide what to do next. :p

Geoff's concern is valid for any of us amateurs, but remember that the owner of the cat had contracted with a UK professional delivery service, and these guys would all be licensed captains with, presumably, tens of thousands of sea miles behind them. If we cut them any slack, it would be that absent local knowledge, they might not realize just how violent the seas can get, any (!) time of year off the northern California and Oregon coasts. :rolleyes:

Loren in PDX
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Loren,

I was thinking of the dentist. I had forgotten about the original subject of this thread! At the risk of offending any dentists on this site, I once helped to deliver a Beneteau 42 that belonged to a dentist. It took about 10 minutes just to disconnect all the wires (cable TV, etc.) holding the boat to the dock. On the sail back, I counted 18 cup holders on deck. 'Nuff said.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
Then there is the moron from Cali who just got rescued in the southern ocean and scuttled his boat that was not sinking? Story was on CNN. I do not understand how this idiot got so much press but the guy in the Veloux (SP?) Ocean race a few months back who lost his keel, gets rescued by a competitor who subsequenlt loses his mast and sails under jury rig to port gets no notice by the mainstream media? IMHO the dumbass who was on CNN should have been fined heavily for DUMPING a sailable yacht in the southern ocean because "HE" could not handle it anymore. He should also be billed 100% for the fuel and hourly wages of the Chileans who came out to get his sorry butt. I guess I get a little riled up about people who get themselves into these situations then are extricated with little to no consequence for their behavior. It is reflected in our boat insurance premiums guys!

I can get a huge fine for spilling a cup of diesel at the fuel dock but some jackass leaves a 40 foot boat with 100 gallons plus oil and god knows what else to drift in the sea and theres no fine? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
 
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MarkA

Please Contact Admin.
Roger that, Ted!

His website invites people to email with questions. I did. I asked the obvious questions concerning rudder damage, emergency rudder & tiller, how were the batteries secured, engine mount and shaft damage, whether he had tools to cut away the damaged rig, etc.

I got this in response:

"Not alot of time but I did want to clear up the misconception that I was sailing with the mizzen , that would be kind of foolish. I was under the staysail only. Wish I had more time. I have just started comunicating with the ocean community whose questions are the only ones that really matter, Ken"

So, I guess my questions don't matter. Silly me for taking his website's invitation at face value. I guess I should join the "ocean community" to get the straight scoop. Where do I apply?
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
Ken Barnes web site (www.kensolo.com) is a hoot (he reminds me of that Seinfeld character who always referred to himself in the third person). I suppose I might be forgiven for wondering why the photos of the dismasted boat show sails on all the spars if the weather was so awful. As for why the story got so much airtime, let's just say that the fact that his "family" is photogenic probably helped just a little (as the did the daughters' backgrounds in merchandising for motorcycle stunt events and as a stylist for Bo Derek.)
 
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rwthomas1

Sustaining Partner
To try to answer Rob, I would guess that in a winter storm with really big (and probably confused) seas they got themselves into a classic dilemma, where it was dangerous to go forward and equally dangerous to try and turn back. An additional surmise is that when it flipped, it happened in an instant. :boohoo:
One of our monohulls could be rolled by a big sea, but would right itself and leave us (hopefully aboard and not too injured) to sort out our mastless hull and decide what to do next. :p

Loren in PDX

Actually Loren I was commenting on the dentist and the Beneteau....:D
RT
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
The good news is,.....

Our boy Barnes just got hit with the rescue bill from the Chilean Navy:D
 

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Not sure

I think this varies from country to country. I do not think the Austalian Navy charges for rescues, and in some cases the cause of the rescue may have some impact (idiot factor)-but I am not an authority on this..It is Ok with me in this case to send the guy a bill, though
 

MarkA

Please Contact Admin.
He posted his story this morning

http://www.kensolo.com/kenstatus.htm

He didn't devote much time in his story to the brief window between the rollover and his activation of the EPIRB. He doesn't say that it would have been impossible to restore steering, just that he didn't try. Same with securing the hatch. No discussion of broken motor mounts, bent shaft, or how many of his batteries were workable. He does add a concern about propane plumbing and a desire to avoid sparks (what about his flares?), but doesn't mention actually smelling any gas.

He does a lot of talking, but the dearth of information about any repair attempts, or some sign that propulsion or steering would be impossible, leaves me with the inference that he could have limped into a safe harbor if he really wanted to.

I would like to think my first instincts would be to repair the boat and move on, instead of throwing in the towel. But I wasn't there, and I could be very wrong.
 
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