What Optima is the right Optima...

[rotorhead]

Hi Ericson owners...

I am upgrading my battery banks, and alternatives are varied. I am definetly in favor of AGM,s, as my boat is at the BVI's, and maintenance is an issue. I saw a a model by Northstar (Energy1) at the Annapolis boat show that are incredibly slim, and expensive. As you all know....space is at premium with our boats.

The other alternatives are the Optimas.
Does anybody knows the differences between the yellow and blue tops...? They are advertised as double purpose Deep cycle/Starting, but their specs are identical in size, and electrical properties. I though the Blue tops were more leaned towrds the Deep cycle end.....

I am open to suggestions....
Best regards to all....
Ismael Zapater
San Juan, PR
S/V Erica of Falmouth
E-380 hull 24

 

[rssailor]

Battery pro's and con's

Well, Optima batteries are great for starter banks, but the company does not offer a deep cycle battery with enough amp hours to be considered for your boat. Lifeline AGM batteries are great in that they accept lots of charging current initially and require no maintenane, but they are more expensive to purchase initially. Any AGM or GEL cell tecnology will require that you have "smart" charging from shore power and from your alternator. This means your charger must be set up with the ability to charge different battery technolgies. Also you will need to have an externally regulated alternator with a Balmar or another manufacturers regulator controlling the output of the alternator.
Ryan

 

[rotorhead]

Thank you Ryan...
The difference between the yellow and blue tops is that the blue tops have screw terminals.

You are right...the Optimas are about 25-30 Amp/hr short of any other AGM. On the other hand, they are compact, and weigh approximately 10-15 Lb less.
However, I am new on sailing....and numbers and specs don't tell you all the story.

I would like to ask the battery bank configurations and battery brands that other E380 owner have.

Thanks to all
Ismael

 

[rotorhead]

I am comparing group 31 batteries......

Sorry...
izf

 

[rssailor]

Battery configs

Ismael,
I did an early Ericson 38 with two four D AGM batteries, a configuration that I would not recomend. The owner was already set and had made the platform in the lazerette for the second battery. A more ideal setup would be to get two pairs of six volt AGM batteries and a group 31 for the start bank. Again go with only the Lifeline batteries, if you choose AGM batteries. They are the original batteries and the best. West Marine's AGM batteries are a poor imitation. What year is your boat? Ryan

 

[Richard Elliott]

Optima

Our E34 has Optima red top starting battery and one blue top ship's battery. I have had excellent experience with these batteries. The cylindrical cells pack more amps in smaller space. FWIW I was told that the deep cycle batteries only became recently available because the U.S. Military was taking all of their production.

 

[rotorhead]

To be Optima or not to be Optima....

Hi Ryan...
My boat is a 1997 PSC E380. It came with a battery compartment below the (port) aft cabin hanging closet. The last owner added a second battery bank behind the engine, under the bunk. It has 2 group 34's and two group 31 ( I think). I can fit 6 31's Optimas behind the engine, as I will be losing the original battery compartment to an air conditioner. I have not decided yet....I am not to happy losing that battery space....and six 31's is a lot of Lead (lb).

I will start by figuring out my power requirements, and start from there. The Optimas will give me 450 Amp/hr, for 225 Amp/hr net @50% discharge.

My sailing for now will be mostly coastal/inter-island, but evetually, I will sail farther out, maybe all the way to Venezuela, and I want to have enough power......

To Richard...
Yep, I like their approach. However, the Lifelines give you about 1.5 amp-hr/Lb, while the Optimas give you 1.25Amp-hr/Lb. The Optimas a less expensive though, and pack a decent punch for the buck.

Thanks to both of you....

Any more battery configurations for an E380 out there..???
Ismael

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I have an 89' E38-200, so it sounds a little different than your 97 PSC model. I have 2 group 31 gels tied together for my house bank. Thats roughly 210 AH. I have a group 27 gel for the starting bank and use a combiner to charge it with the alternator output running directly to the house bank. Blue Seas panel for emergency parralling. I have found 210 AH to be fine for cruising. I added up all of my loads for a 24 hour period allowing the fridge to run 50% of the time and came up with a total around 90 AH. I almost always end up running the engine at least once in 24 hours if for nothing else to make hot water. If you are in the tropice yoiu may find you fridge if electric runs more, but summers on the chesapeake get pretty hot. Speaking with my brother the other night who does Yacht Electrical Systems for a living (YES is his company in Annapolis) and we were discussing 6volt agms aas the way to go for space and for weight. The six volts he was telling me about could be configured in almost any shape and packed a lot of juice. Problem is they are not cheap. Personally I would not use Optimas as anything other than a starter battery but thats just my opinion. I like the lifelines a lot as well as Rolls batteries, but again they are not cheap. If you configure these batteries correctly within a well designed system and dont routinely run them below 50% they should last a very very very long time. That in my mind is what makes them worth the extra coin. I am using the gels now for cost reasons but when they go I plan to go up to the 6 volt setup and maybe try to get my ah up to 300. I cant see needing more than that on a38 foot boat, unless you are into using an inverter to run a lot of stuff.

 

[rssailor]

question for Ted

Ted,
What kind of alternator are you running and also what external regulator are you using? Did the gels come with the boat? Usaually any true brand of gel cell battery will cost almost the same or the same as a lifeline battery and the lifelines have more amp hours on battery for battery comparison. Ryan

 

[stbdtack]

batteries....

I installed 4 six volt deep cycles for the house batteries (460amp total) and a group 24 1000mca for the engine start.

A 110 amp alternator with a Xantrex regulator and a West Marine 150 amp combiner. An Iota 90 amp charger takes care of it all when on shore power.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I have a 100amp balmar alternator with the Xantrax external regulator. Jack Rabbit marine sells both. I use a Xantrax True Charge 20amp shore power charger with temp sensors for the alternator, and batteries which go to both the charger and the alternator regulator. My gel batteries came with the boat.

Hey Strbrd tack does that group 24 crank your diesel well? I am using a group 27 and would love to shed a few pounds by going down to a 24 but I wondered about it being enough juice.

When I upgrade my batteries next I plan to go to AGM 6 volts.

http://www.jackrabbitmarine.com/(le...5)/productDetail.aspx?loc=354&pID=1229&type=0

Not sure if that link will work. But at 10 X 7 a piece I can fit more amp hours in a smaller space. 2 of these guys tied together for 12 volts is 220 AH. In a space that 20 X 7. They are about 10 inches tall though.

 

[stbdtack]

battery size....

The 24 battery works great. I did buy the most powerful one. The difference in the strongest 24 vs the std 27 is 4 lbs. Its really just a function of the amount of lead in the battery. The 24 can actually be quite a bit more powerful (starting amps) than a std 27. I chose it because it was smaller and built a shelf in front of the water heater to mount it.
I rewired the glow plugs to get power directly from the positive stud on the starter and it takes about 10 seconds of glowplugs now to start the cold engine (about 50F outside)
The agm batteries are nice but its hard to justify twice the price over flooded batteries and the more powerful flooded 24 will out perform the AGM (starting).

My 6volts fit in the existing battery locker. its a tight fit and i did have to cut a notch to allow the batts to drop down into the space. But they are very secure and dont need extra straps. About 1/2" clearance all around.

 

[Geoff Johnson]

The agm batteries are nice but its hard to justify twice the price over flooded batteries and the more powerful flooded 24 will out perform the AGM (starting).

I was able to justify AGM's in a few of ways. First, my battery compartment will not accept anything larger than 2 Group 24's so its nice to have a battery will accept the higher charge rate of a high output alternator. Second, AGM's have an extremely low self-discharge rate which is nice for a boat on a mooring. Third, I can leave the batteries in the boat throughout a freezing winter without charging. That saves my back.

 

[Loren Beach]

Group 24 alternatives...

Strictly in the "FWIW dept" I was able to fit two golf cart batteries into the exact footprint where the factory had put two group 24's, side by side. There was a little bit of spare top clearance, now reduced considerably! I went with the Trojan T-145 type, for maximum amphours.
I have an Optima starting/emergency battery nowadays ensconced under the aft cabin berth in a container I fabbed up with plywood and epoxy/cloth.
Loren in PDX
Olson 34 Fresh Air

 

[Geoff Johnson]

Loren,

The Trojan specs say that the 145 is 11 5/8 inches high. The Lifeline AGM's are 9 1/2 inches high and barely fit in the battery compartment under my quarterberth. You must have a deep battery compartment.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

So Strbrd tack your battery compartment is under the aft cabin bunk just forward of the fuel tank? I have a different layout below and my batteries are currently under the strbrd seat near the nav table. I don't think I have room where your batteries are as I think the fuel tank comes right up to the edge of the bunk . I'll have to look because I am trying to get some weight over to my port side to help a slight list I have.

 

[rotorhead]

Optimal Confusion

Ok.....Let say I decide for the Golf cart batteries....I set them in series, so their voltage will multiply but the Amp/hr will add up...If so, this is great...what is the ctach....????

Attached images of my battery banks.., both on the port aft cabin...






Ismael

 

[Jim Mobley]

I've had bad luck with Optimas

FWIW, I've had two Optimas in my Land Rover Discovery and neither made it to it's second birthday. The regular DieHard in it now seems to be a better battery at less than half the price. As others have noted, the Optimas are not deep cycle batteries.

 

[stbdtack]

catch??

Two 225 AH six volt GC batteries connected in series will give you 12 volts and a 225 amp hour bank. 4 batteries in 2 banks and you will have a total of 450AH. The advantage of golfcart batteries is they are true deep cycles. They are designed to provide lower amperage (compared to engine starting) for a longer period of time.

The usual challenge is getting them to fit your battery space.

 

[rotorhead]

Trojan Batteries

Any comments regarding Trojan AGM's..???

I am leaning away from 6V golf cart batteries. Fitting them seems to be a hazzle, and if I lose one battery, i lose the bank. If a 12V batteries loses a cell, I can still use the bank.

Ismael