Atomic 4 Died. What next?

[Katie Jennings]

The original Atomic 4 engine on our E29 has developed a leak in the salt water cooling system - a damaged bolt in the side plate that our mechanic doesn't dare to touch in case it renders the engine entirely useless. For now, the leak is a dribble, but we don't dare go on a summer cruise in case it turns into a gush along the way.

Called around re: repowering. The beta marine rep says about $28K to put in a new engine, and he doesn't do rebuilds any more because it's too expensive. No way we're spending that much! Got an estimate for an electric repower @ $15K. Tempting, but still this is triple our initial investment in the boat. An outboard would probably be more like $6-7K. Maybe an option. Either that, or sell to someone who likes to tinker with mechanics.

Have I missed anything?

Has anyone gone the outboard route? I wonder if this would fix my two least favorite things about the 29 -- the constant pull to port while motoring and the complete inability to steer in reverse? Or maybe it would introduce new/different problems related to weight and balance?

Thanks in advance for the collective wisdom on this board!

 

[geckler3]

The original Atomic 4 engine on our E29 has developed a leak in the salt water cooling system - a damaged bolt in the side plate that our mechanic doesn't dare to touch in case it renders the engine entirely useless. For now, the leak is a dribble, but we don't dare go on a summer cruise in case it turns into a gush along the way.

Called around re: repowering. The beta marine rep says about $28K to put in a new engine, and he doesn't do rebuilds any more because it's too expensive. No way we're spending that much! Got an estimate for an electric repower @ $15K. Tempting, but still this is triple our initial investment in the boat. An outboard would probably be more like $6-7K. Maybe an option. Either that, or sell to someone who likes to tinker with mechanics.

Have I missed anything?

Has anyone gone the outboard route? I wonder if this would fix my two least favorite things about the 29 -- the constant pull to port while motoring and the complete inability to steer in reverse? Or maybe it would introduce new/different problems related to weight and balance?

Thanks in advance for the collective wisdom on this board!

The Atomic 4 is one of the most reliable gasoline engines ever made for marine use. There's quite a community and not to say rebuilds are easy, but there's plenty of resources online. Not sure where you're located, but Ive been able to source anything I've needed for a 87 E28 at:

moyermarine

moyermarine.com

 

[TimTimmeh]

I had an e29 and I did love that boat, but repowering wouldn't make financial sense as you noted. Personally I would just mount an outboard bracket, get a used 9.9 for like 1000 and continue cruising on the suspect a4 until it gives up then just use the outboard.

 

[Katie Jennings]

I had an e29 and I did love that boat, but repowering wouldn't make financial sense as you noted. Personally I would just mount an outboard bracket, get a used 9.9 for like 1000 and continue cruising on the suspect a4 until it gives up then just use the outboard.

Thanks Tim! Any idea how quickly a 9.9 would push the 8500 lb boat through the water?

 

[ThurstonCounty]

We just picked up an E29, which had recently been repowered, just a few hundred hours when we purchsed it. I find it hard to believe that it was that expensive to replace given the price we got on ours, but we don‘t have the atomic, but a diesel kuboda of similar HP.

 

[ThurstonCounty]

However, I‘d love to follow your rebuild blog to convert to electric!!!

 

[TimTimmeh]

Thanks Tim! Any idea how quickly a 9.9 would push the 8500 lb boat through the water?

Mine had a 10hp diesel and cruised at 5.5kts. You don't need 30hp on that boat at all. You can't make much way into 20kts wind though, but that's where the sweet sailing ericson 29 comes in.

Reading your description you may want to get a second opinion about the a4, there is a lot of them out there and parts are probably readily available.
The ROI on getting your inboard reliably working probably makes the most sense over having a dead weight.

 

[Christian Williams]

Fix or replace the A4 in kind. And get estimates from new mechanics. .

 

[Gaviate]

the complete inability to steer in reverse?

Oh and the other thing is, putting the prop Behind the rudder certainly will not improve steerage in reverse, the rudder becomes a big deflector plate with prop wash and you will be going to port when intention was to starboard.
This is not the case if you can lock rudder to center and steer by rotating outboard as if mounted on small boat, which should be possible with use of outboard bracket on stern and control cables led into cockpit.

 

[steven]

Is it the side plate on the left as you face aft ?
That covers part of the cooling water jacket. Prone to rusting.
Replacement part available from Moyer.
I replaced mine myself (was easy) about 10 years ago.
No problems since, though there is of course rust inside the water jacket - but since replacing the plate there is no external leakage and the engine runs in the right temp range.

When my A4 goes a new A4 is going in.
Current one has been running for over 40years so why not just replace it for another 40.
Thought it was finished last season but its got more life since I replaced the rusted cylnder head and exhaust riser. So maybe runs another year or two.
Est in under 10k range including yard fees. Engine in the 6k range. The rest is parts and yard.
Maybe save some if I do prep or even have a couple of pals help me lift out and in using a nearby jolly pole (or even the halyard/boom).

If I could I'd go to an O/B (with remote controls) - just not feasible on the 35.
A hidden cost may be the need to beef up the transom or use a substantial backing plate - turning can put lots of torque on the bracket where it bolts to the boat. You can probably get hull speed in calm conditions from a 9.9 four stroke but really no reserve. There may a 15HP on the market using the same power head (so the same weight). Not sure. Try Suzuki.

I don't think electric is there yet except in special situation - which is disappointing. I've looked seriously at a hybrid with a diesel genset direct to motor. Might work. Even though still internal combustion, has some advantages over an inboard. But I don't see people doing it, which suggest there is a gotcha somewhere. Wish I could find someone who can actually advise.


--Steve

 

[Katie Jennings]

Is it the side plate on the left as you face aft ?
That covers part of the cooling water jacket. Prone to rusting.
Replacement part available from Moyer.
I replaced mine myself (was easy) about 10 years ago.
No problems since, though there is of course rust inside the water jacket - but since replacing the plate there is no external leakage and the engine runs in the right temp range.

When my A4 goes a new A4 is going in.
Current one has been running for over 40years so why not just replace it for another 40.
Thought it was finished last season but its got more life since I replaced the rusted cylnder head and exhaust riser. So maybe runs another year or two.
Est in under 10k range including yard fees. Engine in the 6k range. The rest is parts and yard.
Maybe save some if I do prep or even have a couple of pals help me lift out and in using a nearby jolly pole (or even the halyard/boom).

If I could I'd go to an O/B (with remote controls) - just not feasible on the 35.
A hidden cost may be the need to beef up the transom or use a substantial backing plate - turning can put lots of torque on the bracket where it bolts to the boat. You can probably get hull speed in calm conditions from a 9.9 four stroke but really no reserve. There may a 15HP on the market using the same power head (so the same weight). Not sure. Try Suzuki.

I don't think electric is there yet except in special situation - which is disappointing. I've looked seriously at a hybrid with a diesel genset direct to motor. Might work. Even though still internal combustion, has some advantages over an inboard. But I don't see people doing it, which suggest there is a gotcha somewhere. Wish I could find someone who can actually advise.


--Steve

Wow this is great info. Yes it's the plate to port as you face aft. Yes it's rusting. I guess I'm now looking for someone who knows the Atomic 4 in the Seattle area. I'm a sailor not a mechanic, my husband is neither, and all the marine mechanics I've found are diesel and just shake their heads at the A4.

 

[peaman]

Yes it's the plate to port as you face aft.

To be clear, always reference port and starboard when facing forward. Port is left, starboard is right. Also, ignore comments from diesel mechanics when discussing Atomic 4's. There is much to be said for diesel engines in boats, but few say bad things about A4's.

 

[Loren Beach]

The advice to rebuild the existing A4, is looking practical. Considering IF the original poster could get the same deal I got in 2018, for a new Beta25 installed for about 15K total, it's probably still way more than he may want to budget. I like diesels for all of the usual reasons, but individual circumstances are most important.
Best to ask the A4 guy @ Moyermarine with the good reputation what a rebuilt engine would cost. Also, you know it should/will fit without mods.

 

[weaties]

Wow this is great info. Yes it's the plate to port as you face aft. Yes it's rusting. I guess I'm now looking for someone who knows the Atomic 4 in the Seattle area. I'm a sailor not a mechanic, my husband is neither, and all the marine mechanics I've found are diesel and just shake their heads at the A4.

I have an atomic 4 in my `77 Ericsson 27 that I keep at shilshole, As other posters have said, Moyer marine is awesome. They rebuilt my motor back in `99 when it seized up after I let water get into the cylinders. (Long story) , and I continue to get parts from them to this day.

We have also used http://auxiliaryeng.com/ for maintenance In the past, and have been happy with them.

Now - with that said, my motor is shedding chunks-o-rust from the left side (looking aft) I haven’t been able to identify exactly where the chunks are coming from, but the motor starts easy and runs well. What I have decided to do is to keep using it for evening sails for as long as I can. And when it does finally give up the ghost, we will either repower with electric (not economically feasible, but what a cool project!). Or give the boat away and move onto the next phase of our loves (we have had the boat for 30 years, and have used it a ton).

I‘ll also add, that about 15 years ago we purchased an inflatable dinghy and 9.9hp Nissan outboard, and that made a hurge change in how we used the boat, and provided with a back up for if the good old A4 died on us.

 

[Kenneth K]

To be clear, always reference port and starboard when facing forward.

Wait, that kinda defeats the whole purpose of port and starboard....

 

[tenders]

Another vote for parts and forum support from Moyer Marine. The rusted side plate can surely be replaced and will get your engine running perfectly again. The user experience of an A4 is superior to diesels in every way except range, which many do not need.

 

[Christian Williams]

The user experience of an A4 is superior to diesels in every way except range,

Owners of diesels have no experience. They merely start the thing and it runs forever.

 

[G Kiba]

Maybe one or both of you can become the mechanic. Saves a lot money, is a great learning experience, will give you a lot of confidence when/if you have motor problems on the water. I grew up when people worked-on cars! I learned a lot about engines, tools, and electrical. It's a great thing to do. Now cars are too complicated (sophisticated) for me to do very much although I still like to do my own brake jobs. Boats are not nearly as complicated as today's cars.

 

[tenders]

Owners of diesels have no experience. They merely start the thing and it runs forever.

But of course they do! They smell it, they hear it, they feel it in their bones every time they start it up! And sometimes they have to kill things growing in their fuel tanks.

 

[Jim_G]

Agree water jacket replacement with stud kit is a straight forward repair. Moyermarine.com will be your friend. Also, moyermarineforum.com is full of smart folks willing to help. You can search there for a recommended mechanic in your area for the A-4. Maybe do not need complete rebuild just catch up on maintenance. Good luck.