Atomic 4 Died. What next?

[Stuphoto]

Just thinking,
My first choice would be just fix the present motor without draining the bank account.

However if it required a full rebuild, I would sure be tempted to get a outboard.
Then play around with a diy electric inboard conversion.

I tend to agree, the electric power technology isn't there as I would like to see it yet, unless you have big battery banks and run shore power. Which would work for most weekend sailors mooring their boats, just not for people like myself looking to anchor offshore and use solar panels.
However at the same time it's really quite fun and cheap buying a used electric motor, adding a few batteries and solar panels.
Then just playing around with it.

Even if it only ever works half a$&Ed it's probably all you need when backing up solving that problem.

 

[Mark F]

Well... 14 years into living with EP on my E27 I wouldn't have it any other way ;-)

 

[p.gazibara]

I’m with Mark, we fitted our electric drive in
Cinderella for $1,600 back in 2016. Halfway around the world now I wouldn’t do it any other way.

-P

 

[Katie Jennings]

Thanks everyone for the push to get a second opinion. I contacted another mechanic and we took off the jacket plate. There's a bit of soot in the cooling system but not as bad as some pictures I've seen. We're scraping down the parts (lots of life left in the plate) getting new bolts, replacing some hoses. One question is, we found a badly rusted 1" x 1" round that looks like some sort of cap for the T that threads through the jacket plate. Any ideas what that is? It looks a lot like a part listed on the Moyer site called the MMI Thermostat. But what's it doing in behind the water jacket plate?

 

[steven]

Peaman is correct about labeling.
Port and Starboard refer to the vessel and are not relative to the orientation of the person or machinery.
I should have said "to starboard" or "to your left as you face the engine."
Good catch. thanks.
Apologies for any confusion.


--Steve

 

[tenders]

Port and Starboard refer to the vessel and are not relative to the orientation of the person or machinery.
I should have said "to starboard" or "to your left as you face the engine."

I’m nautically offended by your orientation assumption. My A4 has a v-drive so is mounted with the flywheel aft. It can be difficult navigating a coverplatetoport-normative world. Not sure which way the OP’s installation swings, but to be very precise I tend to refer to the “carb side” of the engine, and the “other” side.

(Many years ago I discovered my ignition had been installed 180° out of phase from stock and I think this was the reason.)

 

[Katie Jennings]

I’m nautically offended by your orientation assumption. My A4 has a v-drive so is mounted with the flywheel aft. It can be difficult navigating a coverplatetoport-normative world. Not sure which way the OP’s installation swings, but to be very precise I tend to refer to the “carb side” of the engine, and the “other” side.

(Many years ago I discovered my ignition had been installed 180° out of phase from stock and I think this was the reason.)

OP here, asking is the "other" side of the "carb side" known as the "protein" side or the "fat" side? Maybe there are some other assumptions going on here - like that I know my carburetor from my elbow ;-)

 

[alcodiesel]

The fellas at the moyer site have walked me through several a-4 issues I thought were the end of the engine. The a-4 I have runs great and has been very reliable. Plus I'm not afraid of the engine anymore. I have the confidence I can get it running if it ever does crap out underway.

 

[Chschaus]

But of course they do! They smell it, they hear it, they feel it in their bones every time they start it up! And sometimes they have to kill things growing in their fuel tanks.

Isn't that part of the total experience

 

[Katie Jennings]

Well... 14 years into living with EP on my E27 I wouldn't have it any other way ;-)

Wow how do I find out more?

 

[Fanfan]

Wow how do I find out more?

I would be interested in this, too.

 

[Fanfan]

The original Atomic 4 engine on our E29 has developed a leak in the salt water cooling system - a damaged bolt in the side plate that our mechanic doesn't dare to touch in case it renders the engine entirely useless. For now, the leak is a dribble, but we don't dare go on a summer cruise in case it turns into a gush along the way.

Called around re: repowering. The beta marine rep says about $28K to put in a new engine, and he doesn't do rebuilds any more because it's too expensive. No way we're spending that much! Got an estimate for an electric repower @ $15K. Tempting, but still this is triple our initial investment in the boat. An outboard would probably be more like $6-7K. Maybe an option. Either that, or sell to someone who likes to tinker with mechanics.

Have I missed anything?

Has anyone gone the outboard route? I wonder if this would fix my two least favorite things about the 29 -- the constant pull to port while motoring and the complete inability to steer in reverse? Or maybe it would introduce new/different problems related to weight and balance?

Thanks in advance for the collective wisdom on this board!

I will throw in my two worthless cents with the risk of being kicked in the teeth for what follows. I have an Ericson 29 (Sail number 2972) which I bought with reportedly rebuilt A-4 in 2016. Fast-forward to 2019 and the engine died on entering the marina - of course, when else? It never restarted - evidently broke a crankshaft. After a few attempts to find a reasonable repowering option, I had to admit defeat and went the outboard way. I have a 25-hp 2-cycle extra long shaft Johnson ($650) which can propel the hull at 5.5 kts if you really push it, but would suck fuel far more than the A-4 ever did, of course. Luckily I use it only to leave and enter the marina, as the boat is a fantastic sailor.

The comments about loss of steering ability at low speeds are, of course, spot-on! I have rigged a spring line to make her turn sharply upon exiting the berth as the distance between the rows of berths is only a little longer than the boat at our marina. This has been the only modification I have made. I considered using a longer tiller for the engine, but so far have not and steer with the yacht's rudder and keep the engine centred. Once the boat is running above 1.0-1.5 kts, steering recovers, though you have to be far more aggressive with the rudder than with a normal engine and be prepared that it will take her longer to react.

As the engine is offset to port, the boat has a permanent list to port. It does not appear to make great difference under sail: she can steer herself for up to 5-10 minutes at a time without touching the tiller (less so on starboard tack than on port). It just looks odd and annoys me. The heavy engine on the back also influences fore-and-aft trim, naturally. Again - it does not seem to make a huge difference; not even visually in this case. The removal of the propeller (but not the shaft - just in case...) has added at least a knot to her average speed (it was a 3-bladed prop). Apologies for the long post, but my two cents are that if you are on a budget, do not hesitate and install an outboard. Is it ideal? No, but it is perfectly practical and better than sitting at the dock. I have sailed her far more with this arrangement than with the A-4. In open water, the engine will be next to no good in swell, but then you sail, don't motor.

Cheers, Kroum

 

[Fanfan]

I’m with Mark, we fitted our electric drive in
Cinderella for $1,600 back in 2016. Halfway around the world now I wouldn’t do it any other way.

-P

I would love to hear more about this! I would be tempted if this is the price ticket. Replacing the A-4 was to cost at least double to triple this!

 

[Jim_G]

Thanks everyone for the push to get a second opinion. I contacted another mechanic and we took off the jacket plate. There's a bit of soot in the cooling system but not as bad as some pictures I've seen. We're scraping down the parts (lots of life left in the plate) getting new bolts, replacing some hoses. One question is, we found a badly rusted 1" x 1" round that looks like some sort of cap for the T that threads through the jacket plate. Any ideas what that is? It looks a lot like a part listed on the Moyer site called the MMI Thermostat. But what's it doing in behind the water jacket plate?

Hi Katie- part of the assembly of the water jacket side plate is the T fitting (from water pump on one side, onto thermostat on the other end) and connects to a diverter valve that diverts water downward and aft onto primarily number 3 and 4 cylinders ( see link: https://moyermarine.com/techtip001-2-2/). I would consider a new T fitting/diverter valve unit, a stud kit (big improvement over bolts) and a new plate since they are pretty cheap. Also new new gasket with high quality sealant like permatex aviation.

 

[KS Dave]

I would love to hear more about this!

Not to steal his thunder, but @p.gazibara documented it here: https://www.sailingcinderella.com/

If you want something that's more of a kit, Thunderstruck Motors sells several different sailboat kits along with the necessary gear reductions. This guy did a Thunderstruck conversion on a Catalina 27 and documented it on his channel.

 

[Marinarius]

One thing missed about a re-power would be a good used Universal diesel engine.

M-25 UNIVERSAL marine diesel 21 hp engine - boat parts - by owner -...

M-25 Universal (brand) 21 hp marine Diesel engine COMPLETE Listen and see it running M-25 was a take out by a local engine installer I had it for a number of years for a project long past Got it up...

providence.craigslist.org

I have seen complete (reportedly) running M25XP engines like this starting at $1500.00.


A fairly in-expensive option for replacing a worn-out Universal diesel where you already have the transmission, cooling and exhaust parts would be finding a good used Kubota.

Universal M25XP = Kubota D950 (E32-E34)
Universal 5421 = Kubota V1505 (E38)

Kubota / Yanmar / Mitsubishi / Iseki Used Diesel Engines - farm &...

Diesel Repower, ask for Chris. Repower your equipment today! ASE certified technician inspects all engines. Cheap freight, ship from Tennessee. We accept credit/debit cards. PRICES STARTING AT...

lubbock.craigslist.org

 

[frick]

The original Atomic 4 engine on our E29 has developed a leak in the salt water cooling system - a damaged bolt in the side plate that our mechanic doesn't dare to touch in case it renders the engine entirely useless. For now, the leak is a dribble, but we don't dare go on a summer cruise in case it turns into a gush along the way.

Called around re: repowering. The beta marine rep says about $28K to put in a new engine, and he doesn't do rebuilds any more because it's too expensive. No way we're spending that much! Got an estimate for an electric repower @ $15K. Tempting, but still this is triple our initial investment in the boat. An outboard would probably be more like $6-7K. Maybe an option. Either that, or sell to someone who likes to tinker with mechanics.

Have I missed anything?

Has anyone gone the outboard route? I wonder if this would fix my two least favorite things about the 29 -- the constant pull to port while motoring and the complete inability to steer in reverse? Or maybe it would introduce new/different problems related to weight and balance?

Thanks in advance for the collective wisdom on this board!

When the A4 rusted on the inside from a raw water leek. I put in a new yanmar 2gm20f. The engine was 75 the value of my boat. I had 19 years of perfect service, now my daughter has the E29 and still enjoying the boat. Of course 20 years ago the yanmar out right cost was 6500 dollars. With install, new shaft, folding prop it was close to 10 grand.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Kaitie and Fanfan,
I posted a few blogs on this site about the electric propulsion system I installed on Lotus Flower a while ago. I'm not sure how you search Blogs but I think this will get you there. I do need to do an update....

Electric repower of Lotus Flower a 1976 Ericson 27

Well, three and half years into life with electric propulsion (EP) on Lotus Flower a 1976 E27 I think it's time to log some thoughts on the web. I will start with a timeline of the process.

ericsonyachts.org

 

[steven]

Mark, I'm wondering about motosailing with an electric. Use the sails to cut back on throttle and thereby extend range.
Is that a sane idea ?

 

[Stuphoto]

I would be surprised if a suitcase generator couldn't easily power it as a backup plan.