Cast Ericson windows! ?

[exoduse35]

I talked with the Guy's at New Found Metals at the strictly sail show in April. I a interested in replacing the original port lights with something that opens and was impressed with their ports. This however brings up a problem as they cast their ports in stainless and they do not at all match the aluminum trapezoid Ericson trademark ports. They said there is a possible solution in that if there was interest they could cast up some non opening ports as a direct replacement for those 4 windows. Knowing that there are quite a few posts related to window problems, I was wondering if there would be any interest from the masses in such an item? So the question... is there? They said a run of 50 was worth their while. as there are 2 of each on each boat that is 25 boats. They would be priced at about 200 each so it is priced within reach. Their opening ports 14x5 were also only around 190 (yes it adds up fast for 10 ports) is there any interest? Thanks in advance for your input. Edd

 

[CSMcKillip]

I would be interested in the 4 fixed and 5 opening as a direct replacment.

 

[Loren Beach]

Well, it depends

Did they say what frame and lens material they were considering?

Since they do a lot of SS and bronze work, I would sort of guess that it would be SS.
Then there is the question of a precise pattern for the cut out.
While it looks, from a distance, like the Ericson-spec'd ports are the same over quite a few models, you would not want to "assume" such a thing. :nerd:

One way to start is to have owners of several models, who are interested in a purchase, make a pattern of the cut-out for each port on their boat.

These could be rendered in something universal like a PDF with all measurements, and sent around for others to check against their boats.

Next, you have to consider how much "flex" the cast SS framing with allow. All these boats have some slight curve to the cabin side shape, and the window has to slightly bend from front to rear as it is fastened/glued into place. Not too difficult for an aluminum-frame Lewmar with an acrylic lens...
Be sure that any replacement port assembly you choose can conform. SS and safety glass, FWIW, may want a perfectly flat mating surface for the frame.

(That's one reason why you should never be too jealous of some boats with the 28" to 30" long opening ports. As those ports age the seal material loses elasticity they may stop keeping out the water at each end.)

I used to dream of changing from my external Lexan lenses to the fancy Lewmar fixed ports, but found that my cut outs were different from anything Lewmar made. But it's OK. ( I am still fantasizing about finding a killer deal on carbon spar! )


Cheers,
Loren

 

[Mark F]

Loren,

Let me know if you run into a carbon spar "in your dreams" but it's too short for your boat ;-).

 

[dwigle]

After replacing the opening ports with NFM stainless this spring, I'd be in for the fixed, but I also agree with Loren that I wouldn't trust all boats to have the same size.

As far as curvature, my fixed ports are glass, so the cabin must be relatively flat, but I'll check this weekend.

Don Wigle
Wiggle Room
E 38 #8
Pt. Richmond, CA

 

[exoduse35]

I also concur, but the big question is if there is enough interest for them to justify creating a window for us. If there is the requisite interest then they Will make the Windows especially fer our boats and can engineer them to fit our boats as Ericson undoubtedly did. They would not be making a generic port that may end up on any boat, these would be a special "for Ericson owners only" window so some amount of the problems mentioned can be compensated for.

 

[Sven]

We're replacing 7 of the opening ports with NFM and already replaced the RV-like sliding "window" in the cockpit with a large NFM porthole. The 7 arrived this week and are now in the living room. The teak spacers were a bit rough and we're returning 4 of them for replacements.

I doubt the sizes are the same but we'd go for the four fixed portlights too. (Didn't I post about that here ... ? Maybe it was on another forum).



-Sven

 

[mherrcat]

I have the fixed portlights from an E27 that I am trying to rebuild and they are the same size as the ones in my 30+. I measured another set that I saw (from a 35 I believe) and they were also the same. I'm not sure how much flex the aluminum originals would have had seeing as how the lenses were glass; much flex at all and the glass would break?

The measurements I took on the outsides of the frames follow. The two width measurements are at the front and back of each window (just before the bends) as the windows narrowed toward the front of the boat.

Front window:
27 3/4 L x 7 1/4 W x 7 5/8 W

Rear window:
27 3/4 L x 7 7/8 W x 8 1/4 W

The windows I bought and the other ones I measured matched these measurements +/- 1/8.

I might be interested in a NFM product if they could do a nice tinted Lexan or tempered/safety glass. Of course the whole idea of rebuilding was to save some money...

 

[exoduse35]

:Those measurements match mine as well. I suspect that they used the same one on everything and had them made for them special which is why it is impossible to find a source. I think NFM uses safety glass in everything but the hard part is finding something that will fit the hole,look like it belongs, and not detract from the unique style. It would be easy to find something to fill the hole if we were willing to cut up the boat and put in generic port, but then all the rest of us would have to shed a tear for the poor boatEDD
PS. Mark, my dad lives in Vetura at the harbor and I will be down the first week of June (seems he needs to give me a stepmother) and would be interested in meeting up if you are interested

 

[Mort Fligelman]

Fixed Ports

I would be very interested in four new fixed ports for my 35-3.

If this thread is being read by either Martin King, or Seth they might be able to answer the question as to wether or not the four fixed ports were specially made for Ericson, and if they are all the same for each different boat.

Going back to earlier threads by Tim Reiley, he had new ones made by Bomon in Canada, but they could not duplicate the radius, so he had to do some modification on the openings. If I remember correctly he paid far more than $200 each for them......this would be the deal of the century.

As to the curvature......mine are glass so I would guess that if there is any curvature, at least on the 35-3 it really is not a problem.

In looking at Mainsail's page.....if he used Newfound Metals ports I am sure that they pass the test of being Nuclear Attack proof.

My $.0002 worth

 

[rwthomas1]

If we area talking about the 4 fixed ports in the main cabin, like those on my E38, you can count me in. I would do the whole boat with NFM if all the ports, opening and fixed, matched. I was thinking of replacing the opening ports at some point but not being able to get matching replacements for the fixed units killed it for me. RT

 

[exoduse35]

I followed the problems with not being able to duplicate the tight radious of the widows, and also have nixed the replacement idea until now because of the mismatch problem. But this cast idea seems to be the answer because the radius problem is one of not having a fixture to create the bend. but a casting has no such fixture issues. also I am pretty sure the guys at NFM are not idiots as if I won't buy 6 ports that do fit because of the 4 that don't, If I get those 4 the other 6 will have to match. so every sale of the new widows is actually a 10 window sale times 25 people times $200 the math starts to look good for a few hours work to make 2 plugs for castings! And besides they corner the market as the word gets out and soon hundreds will follow, all to them!

 

[CSMcKillip]

of the new widows is actually a 10 window sale times 25 people times $200 the math starts to look good for a few hours work to make 2 plugs for castings! And besides they corner the market as the word gets out and soon hundreds will follow, all to them!

Would there not be 4 castings? Two for port and 2 for starboard? Why don't we just make a kit with the correct rebuild materials and user guide, from everything that I have read the hardest part will be removing the port from the boat due to some shifting. Find a replacment for the rubber, everyone has said you can find at local RV store. And write up a detailed set of instructions.

 

[exoduse35]

Well that works and is currently the only solution, but in 40 years the boat world has come a long way. The big hurdle to taking advantage of it is that you can not update the 4 windows exclusive to Ericson, leaving you with either mismatched windows or the originals. My boat had 5 fixed and 1 opening port (in the head) the opening port has long ago been sealed shut as it was never water tight. There is therefore no vent to the head. The entire boat is without ventilation if it is raining and therefore has the hatches closed. Also my old frames have long ago lost their anodizing and now look like hell. To make them look right again will each take dozens of hours to remove, clean, polish,have re anodized, re assemble, and re-bed, to have the same ( although prettier) problems. Also there are only 2 unique windows. The port front is the same as the starboard rear & vise versa.

 

[mherrcat]

One thing you will find if trying to rebuild is that if the window has leaked any at all (most likely) there will be some, however slight, corrosion in the channel that holds the glass. Seems like this will create a sealing problem with the gasket unless some additional sealant of some kind is used. I have also found some corrosion on the inside of the flange that mates to the outside cabin surface.

I was thinking of using Corning 795 as an additional sealant but in reviewing the specs find that it is not compatible with neoprene or EPDM rubber.

Regarding the front and rear windows on opposite sides being the same, I do not think that is correct. Each window on either side is wider (taller) at the back than at the front. Although the front windows on each side and the back windows on each side have the same dimensions, they are mirror images of one another.

 

[Sven]

Also there are only 2 unique windows. The port front is the same as the starboard rear & vise versa.

That's not true on the 39B, unless I measured really poorly. I've attached what I measured for the starboard side and when I did a quick check the port side seemed to be a mirror image.

(note that the measurements are outside measurements and the frame width needs to be subtracted for interior measurements).

-Sven

 

[exoduse35]

great... mine are identical to within an eighth inch. at any rate they can be made to be the largest ariation and trimmed to fit a slightly smaller hole.

 

[delwarne]

We're interested. Now what?
Del

 

[sveinutne]

I am interested too.

 

[mherrcat]

If this project goes forward I think it might be a good idea to get at least a couple of the actual windows and send them to NFM so they can get the measurements themselves. They would probably only need windows from the port or starboard side since it would be easy to flop the drawings in a CAD program.