1986 E28 stuffing box - not enough space to remove flax

[Tguzowski]

So I bought this boat last year from a guy who owned it for about 10 and the stuffing box has never been maintained. I decided to try and do it, but there doesn’t seem to be enough space for me to get the flax out or put new in. Anybody encounter this before? Universal M12 diesel.

 

[Alan Gomes]

It's a bit hard for me to tell from your picture because of the lighting. Is the nut slid all the way forward and butting up against the aft end of the prop shaft coupling? I can't tell how much space there is between the aft end of the packing nut and the threaded portion of the stuffing box.

What I can see pretty clearly is that those hose clamps need replacement pronto.

 

[Pete the Cat]

Gonna hafta haul the boat, I think. You need a new stuffing box hose (and this is NOT the same as exhaust hose). The solution I have used is to make the stuffing box hose shorter--you can cut it with a hack saw-- to expose more of the shaft. You just have to have enough hose to put two clamps on either side. This is a good time to check a lot of other stuff like the shaft itself (to see if it is scored) and the cutless bearing, alignment, etc. I am sure you know that you have a dangerous potential there. I would recommend changing out the whole stuffing box hardware while you have things apart--cheap insurance considering what is at stake. I don't know if anyone has a good video on properly servicing a stuffing box--I have seen one on Youtube that is just wrong. The Ericson manual that came with my boat says something about 1/8" flax and that is incorrect. You need at least 3/16" (and 1/4" if you are neat and careful) according to Groco, so that the flax does not stuff the down tube shut.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Gonna hafta haul the boat, I think. You need a new stuffing box hose (and this is NOT the same as exhaust hose). The solution I have used is to make the stuffing box hose shorter--you can cut it with a hack saw-- to expose more of the shaft. You just have to have enough hose to put two clamps on either side. This is a good time to check a lot of other stuff like the shaft itself (to see if it is scored) and the cutless bearing, alignment, etc. I am sure you know that you have a dangerous potential there. I would recommend changing out the whole stuffing box hardware while you have things apart--cheap insurance considering what is at stake. I don't know if anyone has a good video on properly servicing a stuffing box--I have seen one on Youtube that is just wrong. The Ericson manual that came with my boat says something about 1/8" flax and that is incorrect. You need at least 3/16" (and 1/4" if you are neat and careful) according to Groco, so that the flax does not stuff the down tube shut.

Some great advice here, Ray. I agree that a haulout is warranted in this case.

However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of 1/8" flax. My E26-2 has a 3/4" shaft and uses 1/8" flax with the particular stuffing box that's installed. It might be prudent to have more than one size on hand and figure it out at the time.

 

[Christian Williams]

E32-200 - Re-packing a propeller shaft stuffing box

Summary: I changed the packing flax material on my propeller stuffing box. It seems that no one had done this job for several years, so the difficult part was getting the packing nuts loosened up to begin with, and then extracting what I...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Pete the Cat]

Some great advice here, Ray. I agree that a haulout is warranted in this case.

However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of 1/8" flax. My E26-2 has a 3/4" shaft and uses 1/8" flax with the particular stuffing box that's installed. It might be prudent to have more than one size on hand and figure it out at the time.

Actually, I think you are right. You could use 1/8" flax if you have a 3/4" shaft. All the hardware is smaller. I was just surprised that Ericson recommended it with a 1" shaft and box.

 

[Second Star]

This looks the same as my 28+ M18 arrangement. There is a very tiny space between the nut and the tube but by improvising various wire tools I managed to get the old out. The new 1/8 in flax for the 3/4 in shaft has to be inserted and set, by running the nut all the way on, for each piece of flax. There isn't room to do anything else. If you can get a haulout that is best. Getting new shaft log hose is very difficult and the job is too. The hose is about1/2 in wall and doesn't stretch worth a damn to get it over the shaft tunnel. You may have to bore it out. Plan for several hours of work minimum!

 

[Dave G.]

Replacing the hose requires pulling the shaft so you'll need to pull the shaft back far enough to swap the hose out. Probably could do it in the water but you would want to get everything loose first. Getting the shaft out of the coupler can be very difficult and sometimes impossible. I personally would haul the boat especially if it was the first time I attempted it. Then as Ray said you can inspect and replace other items as required. Not sure on the E28+ but on my E30+ I had to drop the rudder to get my shaft out to replace the cutless bearing. Of course that means you'll have to that task while it's in the slings. If the yard is dirt/gravel you may be able to do as I did and dig a hole, with permission of course.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I would recommend against trying to replace the hose in the water. You generally have to remove the coupling and this is often a bugger. The guys at my yard seem to get most of the shafts out without removing the rudder. the key is generally to remove the propeller (which can also be a challenge), coupling and disassemble the stuffing box as much as possible. They seem to wiggle the shaft past the rudder then--sometimes by a hair. I have had the shaft out of all my boats, but that proves nothing. The magazine articles always talk about preventive replacement of rigging, but I actually think the stuffing box maintenance and preventive replacement should be on that same list in 20 or 30 year old boats. And folks with PSS dripless need to inspect and replace as indicated in their instructions. I am terrified of those units in offshore work based on the fact you can do little to fix them when underway. I second Star's technique of tightening down each ring of flax as you install it. Took me a decade or so to learn this trick--greatly improves the seal and the ability to run cool and virtually dripless (absolutely dripless if you use clay--but that is another thread--and only for the patient mechanics).

 

[Christian Williams]

Re rudder drop, it seems that the models vary. The E381 shaft can't be removed without dropping the rudder (I doubted it but the yard showed me and there was no longer doubt).

Cost of rudder remove and replace, SoCal, 2021: 6 hrs. @ $135, $810.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Replacing the hose requires pulling the shaft so you'll need to pull the shaft back far enough to swap the hose out. Probably could do it in the water but you would want to get everything loose first.

Man, the thought of attempting that in the water gives me the willies!

 

[Afrakes]

Can't think of any way that this could be done in the water. On my 1987 E-28/2 there is barely enough shaft log to accommodate two clamps. When, I rebuilt the M-12 I replaced the original stuffing box, which turned out to be much longer than the original. There was not even close to the amount of space needed to accommodate a dripless. The original stuffing box used 1/8 flax. The replacement required 3/16 to 1/4. I don't believe that a haul out can be avoided.

 

[Dave G.]

They seem to wiggle the shaft past the rudder then--sometimes by a hair.

There was no way my shaft would go past the rudder. I even borrowed a strut-pro, pulled the cutless with shaft in and even with that extra slop in the strut the shaft would not go past the rudder, so I started digging....Every boat is different, and it doesn't take much of an offset to make it clear.

 

[Dave G.]

Cost of rudder remove and replace, SoCal, 2021: 6 hrs. @ $135, $810

Christian does that time and cost include the haul and splash ?

 

[Christian Williams]

No, not at all.

 

[Dave G.]

I replaced the original stuffing box, which turned out to be much longer than the original

You can cut the hose to fit size needed in most applications. Al Have you pulled your prop shaft and if so does it come out without dropping the rudder ?

 

[Dave G.]

No, not at all

Wow, seems like a lot of time and $$ just for the rudder drop. Took about an hour to drop mine(not including hole digging time) by myself. I had a helper putting it back in and it took about hour and a half by the time we got everything aligned and cable tension readjusted.

 

[Dave G.]

Well the OP's location is Holyoke MA. I am guessing that boat is on the hard ? OP ?

 

[Christian Williams]

The thread touches on haul-out, potential rudder drop, and shaft pull, all of which can escalate. The shaft is connected to the motor with a coupling that is often frozen or not reusable. The shaft itself frequently is discovered bent or buggered, since there's a key that may have taken hard knocks all those motoring years. Some of this we could do ourselves--a rudder drop itself is easy enough. Maybe even a cutless bearing replacement, which many members have done. Other stuff is beyond most of us, such as fitting a new prop shaft.

My receipt--I like to share them for the record--may seem high, but my impression is that yards have fee schedules. Sometimes if the job was fast they might charge less than the schedule, and have for me a couple of times. Fact is, I have zero choice. Local yards permit no DIY, and charge $90/day for storage beyond their scope of work. I'm not complaining, this is a metro center, not an idyllic reed-lined bayou with butterflies, and has its compensatory charms.

Haul out and launch, $411.
Labor, clean, fill and apply2 coats bottom paint, $1,275.
Paint cost @ $312. gallon, $936.
R&R prop shaft, replace cutlass bearing, 6 hrs. @ $135, $810.
Drop rudder and reinstall, 6 hrs. @ $135, $810.
Fabricate new shaft face, coupling, prop keys, $950
PSS dripless, $425.
Including rags, gloves, etc., total with tax, $6,300.

 

[Tguzowski]

On the good news front, the boat is already on the hard so that is not an issue. After looking at everything I am feeling like a full replacement of the hose (and shortening it) and stuffing box is the right move. That, I'm sure is full of challenges, one of which is the rudder drop (which I was thinking about doing anyway for preventive maintenance). Am I reading right that this cannot be done without digging a hole to make room for the drop? I am really interested in doing this myself. Despite what I'm sure will be a TON of frustration, I really do like the learning experience of it (as long as I don't sink the boat).