32-200 Lost Rudder

[Loren Beach]

I arrived at the 2.875” post diameter in my drawing by eyeballing with a tape measure, not with calipers, fwiw.

FWIW: I have used a "cheat" for many years for measuring OD on larger shafting. Hold the parallel rules against the shaft and measure the rule-gap away from the shaft, a few inches.

 

[Bolo]

The next highest bearing surface is the packing gland, and then, of course, the upper bearing under the cockpit floor, which has its own zerk fitting.

As an owner of a E32-3 (1987) thanks for the details and especially very clear photos of the rudder setup. I didn't know that the was another zerk fitting in the upper bearing because, probably, I can't see it with it being place facing aft. I'll have to look for it now and pump a load of grease into it. I have always greased the lower zerk as part of my spring commissioning.

 

[Shawn Brooks]

Took the quadrant out in preparation for the new rudder and I found this handwritten bore measurement. 2 tenths under what I measured. This suggests to me that each rudder is unique with quite tight tolerances.

 

[Jerry VB]

zerk fitting in the upper bearing

We have a '89 E32-3 - presumably the same setup as your '87. Shawn's E32-200 zerk is likely different due to the -200's aft cabin.

I found the upper zerk by emptying the port aft lazerette (aka. seat lid) and going totally in (feet first) so that my eyes were on level with the top of the quadrant. At that point the zerk was visible and relatively easy to grease. On my boat, the zerk points directly to port and is reachable with a grease gun with a ~12" tube/hose. Here is a picture as a visualization aide.

 

[jtsai]

Here’s a pic of the washer on our 38. Have to say after the OP I want a closer look at what’s going on under it on the post.

I may have missed in the earlier posts but what is the purpose of this washer?

 

[Loren Beach]

Took the quadrant out in preparation for the new rudder and I found this handwritten bore measurement. 2 tenths under what I measured. This suggests to me that each rudder is unique with quite tight tolerances.

Link to our quadrant with some post diameter info written on it. Ours reads 2.85.

O34 - Deck & handrails, Casting Procedure(page 2)

The new SS hand rails are ready and have been trial fitted and they do indeed match the existing hole spacing. Cost totaled up more than new teak ones, but not a lot. Our host sourced the polished 316 oval tubing. He also cut the pieces -- sloped...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Shawn Brooks]

I may have missed in the earlier posts but what is the purpose of this washer?

I think it acts essentially as a bearing surface between the rudder and hull. Without it the rudder post could move up into the rudder bore far enough that the rudder would contact the hull.

 

[Kenneth K]

I think it acts essentially as a bearing surface between the rudder and hull. Without it the rudder post could move up into the rudder bore far enough that the rudder would contact the hull.

Likewise for the upper plastic bearing--you don't want the aluminum quadrant directly contacting/rotating upon the bronze packing gland.

 

[cdesopo]

Delrin for the washers from McMaster here: https://www.mcmaster.com/8739K96/

Cut with something like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7P1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I made some when we dropped the rudder to install a dripless. Message me if you're unable to find elsewhere and I can try getting a set to you.

 

[Shawn Brooks]

Well, I think I've done all I can do until the new rudder arrives. To fill the time I tried my hand video editing and put together all my footage.

 

[jtsai]

WOW! Thank you for documenting and sharing. Is there any Bahamas bound boaters still staged in FL able to bring you the rudder to save the shipping and importing costs?

 

[Shawn Brooks]

WOW! Thank you for documenting and sharing. Is there any Bahamas bound boaters still staged in FL able to bring you the rudder to save the shipping and importing costs?

That's something I haven't even considered. Had I the opportunity to help someone like that, I certainly would do it, but I don't know how to reach out and locate someone. Moreover, there's till some uncertainly about when the rudder will be ready to ship.

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi Shawn,
Just watched your video, and yes it sucks when what should be fun is interrupted by a significant unexpected repair, with uncertainty, delays and cost. But most of us have encountered that at some point--a dismasting, grounding requiring a dropped keel to check for damage, blisters, collision requiring fibreglass repairs, etc. Most of us have been tempted to sell the boat, take up golf or similar. But if you can problem solve through this repair and get the help and friendly assistance you need, you'll be able to sail again and this will become a distant memory and good story to tell over drinks.
It's hard to know when to try to do it yourself, or when to hire help, but your decision process in your video seems sound. Would the rudder maker(Foss?) be able to tell you how much buoyancy, how hard it would be to install in the water, especially if you could hire a diver to help you?
Keep your spirits up you'll get it resolved!!
Frank

 

[Kenneth K]

Out of curiosity....how far below the top of the rudder stuffing box is the waterline?

Ref the new rudder floating during installation: Can you make a rope webbing (rope and zip-ties?) to tie around the rudder body? Drop a weight to the bottom of the seabed and use an adjustable line between the weight and the bottom of the webbing to keep the rudder upright and control its floating height?

 

[Shawn Brooks]

Hi Shawn,
Just watched your video, and yes it sucks when what should be fun is interrupted by a significant unexpected repair, with uncertainty, delays and cost. But most of us have encountered that at some point--a dismasting, grounding requiring a dropped keel to check for damage, blisters, collision requiring fibreglass repairs, etc. Most of us have been tempted to sell the boat, take up golf or similar. But if you can problem solve through this repair and get the help and friendly assistance you need, you'll be able to sail again and this will become a distant memory and good story to tell over drinks.
It's hard to know when to try to do it yourself, or when to hire help, but your decision process in your video seems sound. Would the rudder maker(Foss?) be able to tell you how much buoyancy, how hard it would be to install in the water, especially if you could hire a diver to help you?
Keep your spirits up you'll get it resolved!!
Frank

I'm sure they would know and I probably could get it done in the slip somehow. It's still an option I'm considering. The real problem is that my wife is aware of the shark issue here in new providence harbor, lol. But you're right--if I can get this rudder in, I'm going to press on. Just a temporary setback.

 

[Shawn Brooks]

Out of curiosity....how far below the top of the rudder stuffing box is the waterline?

Ref the new rudder floating during installation: Can you make a rope webbing (rope and zip-ties?) to tie around the rudder body? Drop a weight to the bottom of the seabed and use an adjustable line between the weight and the bottom of the webbing to keep the rudder upright and control its floating height?

2-3" inches. Here in the harbor it's calm enough that I don't take on any water at all. I do have it plugged just in case though.

I have been thinking along those lines. I have quite a few dive weights and other objects I could use to weigh it down. The slip option is still (privately) on the table.

 

[Pete the Cat]

That's something I haven't even considered. Had I the opportunity to help someone like that, I certainly would do it, but I don't know how to reach out and locate someone. Moreover, there's till some uncertainly about when the rudder will be ready to ship.

In my cruising days in Central America, the cruising community often helped each other by taking orders for equipement and delivering them whenever any of us made a trip back to the US. We could import the materials duty free as it was specified for "vessel in transit" at customs. I brought stuff back on more than one occasion for fellow cruisers without any problem. This was a few years ago, but I think the situation is likely the same.

 

[Lakewood]

I have a rudder with a lot of surface problems and was leaking water out of cracks in the surface. Sailing buddies recommended a rebuild.

Our E-26 has a small rudder ( 50lbs including shaft) that we brought to “some guy” working out of a warehouse on the south side of Chicago. He recommended Foss Rudders. He mentioned that Foss doesn’t drill the hole at the top of the rudder shaft because “it can be drilled in the wrong place.” That seems weird to me, but we took his advice after shopping it around to 3 or 4 other places around Lake Michigan. We ordered a rudder from the Florida company because a new rudder was $2,000 and nobody would touch the old one for under $1500 and one shop quoted possibly $6,000 for a total gut rebuild.

The rudder is in Chicago now, our guy in the warehouse will drill the hole, hopefully in the right place. He has the old rudder and the tiller now. We’ll collect the new rudder, old rudder, and tiller in a week or so. I have a feeling that the shaft is in perfect shape, and some foam may need to be replaced. I have no experience with fiberglass, but I’ll take a stab at fixing the old rudder myself (how hard can that be?) and if it pans out I’ll store it with the growing lot of boat parts stowed in the basement.

Right now Im wondering how hard it could be to fabricate a wooden rudder using a CNC and covering it with a few layers of fiberglass.

 

[southofvictor]

Thanks for posting the video Shawn, it puts your experience in much better perspective. Keep your spirits up we are all with you. You’ll get through this and be stronger for it.

 

[sailinggreg]

Thanks for posting the video Shawn, it puts your experience in much better perspective. Keep your spirits up we are all with you. You’ll get through this and be stronger for it.

Agreed! Shawn, you show an amazing amount of calm even shortly after it happened! Your problem solving seems spot on. I never had (or even heard of) this issue. We needed engine repairs in the Caribbean, always difficult deciding whether you should do it yourself or finding a local mechanic.

Thanks for posting the pics and the video, and alerting us all to this potential (but, hopefully, very, very infrequent) issue.

Good luck!