35-3 New Strut [Master Thread]

[Nick J]

After some back and forth calls to the yard and PTF, I think we landed on a plan. Port Townsend Foundry said this is a common issue with pressing two bearings into a strut, but the interference is caused by the rubber butting together where they meet not a misalignment. The small amount of rubber causing the interference is worn down within the first few hours of use. While I was getting an answer form the foundry, the yard reassembled the strut with the original bearings, making sure to align the grooves, and found if they didn't press them together hard, the fit was good so we're good to go.

Pete said these bearings also suffer from small deflections from the set screws since they are very thin walled (original OD was 1 1/4 with a 1" shaft and the new one is 1 3/8 x 1"). Again, the small deflection is warn away within a few hours of use. seems reasonable to me and is a huge relief considering the alternative explanation is a misalignment of the bore.

I also discussed the plan to install the strut with both Pete and the yard. They agreed that aligning to the shaft log was a good starting point. Pete suggested having spacers made to match the ID of the shaft log and the shaft diameter. I forgot to discuss that with the yard but I'll mention it next time we talk. The yard voiced some concern with potting the strut to the engine template and said they would rather do it with the engine in place. The new plan:

1. Yard fills void from old flush thru hulls with glass, installs G10 backing plates and drills holes for new thru hull (working in the cabinet below the sink will be difficult once the engine is installed)
2. I paint the engine compartment, install thru hulls and insulation.
3. I check the engine template by using it to test fit the new engine mounts to the engine cradle at home.
4. If the template proves accurate, the yard will drill the holes for the mounts in the stringers and install the mounts
5. I will install the engine
6. Yard to align engine to the shaft in the log and pot the strut
7. Yard fills and fairs the strut while I finish the engine system install
8. Yard does final dry land engine alignment
9. Launch
10. Yard does final in water engine alignment.

Wow, that seems like a lot of work when you write it out and it doesn't even include the fresh water plumbing, hot water heater install, and work on the sink...Scope creep? What scope creep?

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Makes total sense about the cutless bearings. Lots of learning curves in this bidnis.

"Pete suggested having spacers made to match the ID of the shaft log and the shaft diameter."
I found some standard pvc pipe with an ID of a little over 1". When I slit it lengthwise in three it fit pretty well to center the shaft in the log. FWIW
. . .
The short pieces on the fore end were from when I was trying to do this without removing the coupler or pulling the engine. We ended up having to do that, anyway. The carriage bolts were my 'brilliant' idea for inserting the short spacers into the tube behind the dripless seal bellows and being able to pull them out. It worked great going in, but when I tried to remove them one stripped the threads and the spacer fell back into the tube along the shaft. When we had the engine pulled I was able to fish it out. Too smart for my own good sometimes.

 

[Pete the Cat]

Yes, you definitely want the engine in place and all the nuts (top and bottom) snug and tight with the newly faced coupling. This is a very good plan. You have done some very careful work and you also appear to have a good yard to work with. Good yards are getting more scarce it seems.

 

[bigd14]

Good idea with the PVC. If that is not quite the right size one should be able to find the right size spacer here. I did, and it only had a few mm of play. They ship stuff very quickly.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

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[Nick J]

Our family sails, ocationaly climbs, and my wife lifts. It all comes together when we have to lift the engine. This time it was to test the accuracy of the template which was spot on, at least for the location of the mounts. As soon as I get the transmission remounted, I'll check the accuracy of the flange. Coming up with ways to lift the engine has been kind of fun

 

[Nick J]

Looks like the yard is making progress on the strut. They did have to move the mounts after we dropped the engine in which resulted in additional holes in the stringers. Kind of frustrating since we spent a few days filling and fairing the old ones and I triple checked the template. This was a risk of using the template in the first place instead of dropping the engine in and drilling the holes after. I haven't' been able to touch base with them, so I don't know the full story. Either way, the alignment looks great now and they should be ready to pot the strut in place either today or tomorrow.

 

[Alan Gomes]

A thing of beauty!

 

[Nick J]

Got a chance to catch the owner tonight. The first pour went well. The shaft is centered in the log and alignment looks good. He said the shift could have been due to the weight of the engine on the sloped engine bed. I don't quite understand how that affected the horizontal placement, but I trust they're doing a good job and just working through standard stuff that comes with old boats. At this point, I'm choosing to believe that for the sake of my own sanity.

They're planning to check alignment again tomorrow and if everything looks good, doing a second pour. Then tenting off the aft area of the boat, glassing and fairing it into the hull to finish it off.

I'm starting to think I might be the long pole in the tent with my engine work, but that's not a bad place to be.


The coupling is pulled away from the back of the engine in this pic. We shortened the shaft by 2.5 inches to reduce the distance from the prop to the strut from 3.5" to 1".

 

[Frank Langer]

Got a chance to catch the owner tonight. The first pour went well. The shaft is centered in the log and alignment looks good. He said the shift could have been due to the weight of the engine on the sloped engine bed. I don't quite understand how that affected the horizontal placement, but I trust they're doing a good job and just working through standard stuff that comes with old boats. At this point, I'm choosing to believe that for the sake of my own sanity.

They're planning to check alignment again tomorrow and if everything looks good, doing a second pour. Then tenting off the aft area of the boat, glassing and fairing it into the hull to finish it off.

I'm starting to think I might be the long pole in the tent with my engine work, but that's not a bad place to be.

View attachment 45081
The coupling is pulled away from the back of the engine in this pic. We shortened the shaft by 2.5 inches to reduce the distance from the prop to the strut from 3.5" to 1".

It looks like really good quality work! And these Ericson boats are worth keeping in good shape.
However, do you have an idea of how much the final bill might be, for those of us who may face this in the future?
Frank

 

[Nick J]

It looks like really good quality work! And these Ericson boats are worth keeping in good shape.
However, do you have an idea of how much the final bill might be, for those of us who may face this in the future?
Frank

Not cool frank, we don't talk about that right now. On a positive note, the port agreed to a monthly rate for lay days which will save around $2k.

In all seriousness, I don't think it's that bad and I'll post what the final bill is and what was done.

 

[Frank Langer]

Not cool frank, we don't talk about that right now. On a positive note, the port agreed to a monthly rate for lay days which will save around $2k.

In all seriousness, I don't think it's that bad and I'll post what the final bill is and what was done.

I hesitated, and thought for a while before asking.
But I'm in my 70's, on fixed income, 4 children, eight grandchildren and a 38 year old Ericson that I try valiantly to keep in great shape. But all of that is not cheap, and some of my repairs have been expensive even though I try to do as much of the work myself as possible. So knowing what some of these repairs cost when the work exceeds my ability is very helpful.
Your posts on this repair have been very informative and helpful! Thanks!
Frank

 

[bigd14]

Looking good. It will be a satisfying job to complete and well worth the $$ to not have to worry about it for awhile.

 

[Nick J]

I hesitated, and thought for a while before asking.
But I'm in my 70's, on fixed income, 4 children, eight grandchildren and a 38 year old Ericson that I try valiantly to keep in great shape. But all of that is not cheap, and some of my repairs have been expensive even though I try to do as much of the work myself as possible. So knowing what some of these repairs cost when the work exceeds my ability is very helpful.
Your posts on this repair have been very informative and helpful! Thanks!
Frank

No worries at all Frank, I was trying to make light of my own hesitancy to look. I totally agree, sharing the reality of what it takes to keep these boats working is important.

 

[Loren Beach]

No worries at all Frank, I was trying to make light of my own hesitancy to look. I totally agree, sharing the reality of what it takes to keep these boats working is important.

And then there are the skills and satisfactions of learning & doing my own boat work. Long long after retiring from the minimal joys of my career / desk job, the boat has been very good for me in many ways.

Associating with sailor "Vikings" who repair their own Longships has been a huge lot of fun, too!

 

[Nick J]

The yard was working overtime this past weekend to make up for the upcoming holiday week. They stopped by to do two additional pours and now it's ready to grind flat and glass over the top. I was really impressed to find out they injected the epoxy form the bottom to better displace trapped air. I gave it a little wiggle yesterday and can confirm it is securely in place. When we first hauled out, the original strut had a some play that would squeeze out a few drips of water. Nice to know that won't be a problem for the foreseeable future.



Another item of note is the slightly off vertical orientation of the new strut. I don't think it will affect performance and is just part of using an existing pattern instead of copying the original. If I had to do it again, I would choose a different pattern but more for a standard cutlass size than the angles.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . . When we first hauled out, the original strut had a some play that would squeeze out a few drips of water. . . .

This sounds exactly like the behavior of ours. There's a YouTube of it linked in my strut thread, post #41. Your description of what you found during dissection is similar to what I found. I'm thinking the way the struts were installed originally was less than optimal.

 

[Nick J]

This sounds exactly like the behavior of ours. There's a YouTube of it linked in my strut thread, post #41. Your description of what you found during dissection is similar to what I found. I'm thinking the way the struts were installed originally was less than optimal.

That was a little worse than what I found. At first the yard said it wasn't an issue that needs to be addressed If I didn't want to tackle it now. I think it was from the original prop being out of balance and creating vibration. Once the cutlass bearing was removed and we found the dezincification, we didn't really have an option.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I think the way the struts were initially installed was very similar--the difference would be the attention to detail and the products. Some epoxies (and I think West was one) used to have a bit of a shrink problem as they cured and that could have caused the space which might have been expanded by use--I think West now claims to have resolved that. My 32-200 shaft is slightly of vertical and a bit out of line with the rudder. The boat sails OK, but, under power, the wheel (rudder) pushes the boat sharply to STB and it is annoying. I am thinking that the factory set the engine on the TFG, dropped in in the hull, installed the down tube and glassed it so that the shaft was centered in the down tube and then installed the strut to align with everything, much as you did--all with more speed and less care than you and your yard have demonstrated. Just a theory. Sabre and some Hinckleys just run the prop purposely off center and out of vertical just to facilitate the removal of the shaft and, ostensibly to counter prop walk when backing (though I don't follow their logic on that) I can only imagine how they are for motoring long distances.

I recommend a feathering prop as a Christmas gift for you as a topping for all your great effort. If you are coming to Maine you need a shark's tooth cutter just in front of that prop--I think you have room. Thanks for sharing all of this--there should be an archive of this effort.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I think the way the struts were initially installed was very similar--the difference would be the attention to detail and the products. Some epoxies (and I think West was one) used to have a bit of a shrink problem as they cured and that could have caused the space which might have been expanded by use--I think West now claims to have resolved that. My 32-200 shaft is slightly of vertical and a bit out of line with the rudder. The boat sails OK, but, under power, the wheel (rudder) pushes the boat sharply to STB and it is annoying. I am thinking that the factory set the engine on the TFG, dropped in in the hull, installed the down tube and glassed it so that the shaft was centered in the down tube and then installed the strut to align with everything, much as you did--all with more speed and less care than you and your yard have demonstrated. Just a theory. Sabre and some Hinckleys just run the prop purposely off center and out of vertical just to facilitate the removal of the shaft and, ostensibly to counter prop walk when backing (though I don't follow their logic on that) I can only imagine how they are for motoring long distances.

I recommend a feathering prop as a Christmas gift for you as a topping for all your great effort. If you are coming to Maine you need a shark's tooth cutter just in front of that prop--I think you have room. Thanks for sharing all of this--there should be an archive of this effort.

Based on what Nick found in his boat and what I found, I'm not convinced the struts were bolted to the glass hull. It seems the bolts were only used as an anchor for the mish-mash to be packed around. I think the mish-mash rattled loose over the years. That said, I didn't choose to through-bolt ours, but also used the bolts more as an armature. I'm counting on 35 years of advancement in adhesive chemistry. We'll see if my hope is well founded. It seems fine after our short season, but longer use will tell.
I don't necessarily regret 'rushing' to the water so save the last few months of our season, but I am lusting after the beauty of what you've done here, Nick. Almost nothing I've done on the boat has turned out as well as I would have liked.

 

[Christian Williams]

there should be an archive of this effort.

No worries, Googling simply "Ericson Strut" this thread is first to come up. Should be available as long as there's an Internet. Threads published 20 years ago, still there. Nobody gets paid for this, including Sean, the site owner, and I figure all of us who contribute, or use the site, have already made history.