Cockpit and Sink Drain Hose

[SeaDog]

The cockpit and sink drain hoses on my 1978 E32 need to be replaced. The starboard two cockpit drains plus the sink drain (all 1.5") terminate in one starboard seacock via a single three way (one opening from the top, and two brazed to each side of the tailpipe) tailpipe. The three way tailpipe is history. Fortuanately, I was right there when the brazed inlets broke off and could close the seacock. The seacock on the port side is a 90 degree elbow with an inline seacock, then a Tee for the two drains.

I am having trouble finding 1.5" hose rated for below waterline seacocks. Any suggestions? I also need a source for Tee's so that I can connect all three starboard hoses to one seacock plus two port side hoses to the other seacock.

If at all possible, the hose needs to be relatively flexible to make the bends necessary. I would rather not use elbows.

Kirby

 

[Emerald]

Hi,

Check this out for scupper line. Do note to use sealing compound and double clamp for below water line applications:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...arch;ID;,Marine.Plumbing,Hose,Sanitation.Hose

Jamestown Distributor and Hamilton Marine (www.hamiltonmarine.com) are both good places for buying new bronze T's elbows, full flange fittings etc. You'll find if you don't already have them (and from what you said guessing you don't), that it's time for new thru-hulls, proper flanged seacocks etc. Use the Groco Full Flow fittings with this pipe and the standard 1.25 inch flanged seacocks and you'll maintian full drain line capacity all the way out the bottom.

BTW, no affiliation with either vendor, just happy customer of both.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Loren Beach]

By 1988, when they built our Olson, Ericson was evidently using only the heavy duty black wire-reinforced hose for below water fittings, like the head intake and engine intake -- same for the big exhaust hose, FWIW.
The head discharge hoses are the green super-stiff reinforced type, and I can tell that whoever bent them around corners had some muscle.
Our hoses that exit above the WL are the more "ordinary" white vinyl with the plastic spiral ribbing.

FYI,

Loren

 

[NateHanson]

That white pvc stuff that David suggested is very stiff, but can be heated with a heatgun to make it nice and pliable. It's nearly impossible to get it on a fitting without heating in my experience. I've recently wondered if this stuff is any different from the "SpaFlex" flexible PVC that is sold at pool supply stores and Lowes Building centers? Anyone know?

Nate

 

[Emerald]

Hi,

I agree, it can be stiff to work with. I have worked with the flavor from Jamestown, (Law) and a similar product from Shields, and have found the Law to be more flexible/easier to work on the barb. I also find using a nice pipe dope makes a big difference, and a hair dryer on high has certainly been a good way to make it hot enough to be more pliable without burning/melting it. I prefer bronze for my seacocks and barbs (I know Loren, you've got a very nice Marlon installation ), and think this type of hose slides easier onto the bronze than a plastic fitting.

The stuff seems pretty tenacious, and I've not had any leak issues over a period of several year service as scupper line. It has maintained flexibility.

I do really like the wire reinforced line as well, and use variations of that type on all engine and suction type applications dealing with seawater. For scupper use this is OK, and I must admit I found part of the attraction was the price.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[SeaDog]

Thanks for the quality information. I called the folks at Jamestown today and they are great! I do have two remaining questions. What kind of sealing compound should I use? I could not find bronze tees. How do the plastic or nylon hold up? Are they "safe" for below waterline use?

Kirby
Uff Da, Ericson 32
Alamitos Bay, California (Long Beach)

 

[Loren Beach]

For below-waterline stuff, I would avoid generic "plastics" and stick to a glass-reinforced purpose-built product like Marlon or even Nylon.

BTW, I once put a nifty little brass drain valve on the outlet of my hot water heater and the only fitting I had that would seemingly fit in that area was a nylon T.
It never would stop seeping water around the threads!
I finally decided that mixing the slippery nylon and metal threads just was not going to work for me.
All metal, some teflon tape, no leaks.

Loren

 

[u079721]

Don't forget the K-Y jelly!

When trying to get stiff hose over a barb you might give a thought to a bit of K-Y jelly along with a heat gun. Unlike petroleum jelly it is safe with all plastics and rubber as it is water based (hydroxyethyl cellulose). It is also a real conversation starter to have a tube of the stuff visible in your tool box!

 

[NateHanson]

Also useful for getting yourself into that tight spot in the cockpit locker, under the sole, and up between the bulkhead to retrieve your dropped ratchet.

 

[Emerald]

Thanks for the quality information. I called the folks at Jamestown today and they are great! I do have two remaining questions. What kind of sealing compound should I use? I could not find bronze tees. How do the plastic or nylon hold up? Are they "safe" for below waterline use?

Kirby
Uff Da, Ericson 32
Alamitos Bay, California (Long Beach)

Hi,

check back on these two links for bronze T's etc. You can get all the bronze and red brass (nipples will only come in red brass) from either Jamestown or Hamilton. Since both sites are huge, here are direct links to pages you can browse from:

At Hamilton:

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.htm?id=100&step=2

and for Ts sepcifically, look under the catagory of "Bronze Pipe Fittings"

At Jamestown:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/to;ID;,Marine.Plumbing,Bronze.Fittings

and on page right, they have bronze T listed seperatly.


Do note that it is important to use compatible metals - e.g. don't screw bronze seacocks to backing pads with stainless, use bronze

Jamestown has a nice little metal compatibility chart. Check it out here:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/decoder_compmetals.jsp

BTW, this is under JD's tips section, which has tons of good info:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/decoder_index2.jsp


As to sealants, I would recommend 3M 4200 for most applications. I do use 5200 on bronze below the water line, but do this with the understanding that you are creating a near permanent bond that will either require 20+ years of time or heat to break it free. I would not use 5200 on anything other than bronze below the water line for these reasons. Whenever I've mounted transducers, which seem to all be a reinforced type plasic material these days, I use the 4200 so there is a chance you could remove it if needed. For work above the water line where UV is a factor, take a look at 3M's 4000UV. It is very similar to 4200 in performance with UV protection.


OK, and now that I've written the above, I realize you meant what we often refer to as "pipe dope". Here's a link to Oatey's site and one of many products that shoud work (and I've used this stuff, for what it's worth, which ain't much...)


http://www.oatey.com/apps/catalog/showskus.asp?ctg=80&subctg=0&prodgrpid=90


To me the pertinent information on this product is as follows (I copied this from the link above):

Lubricates and seals all threaded joints.

White, non-hardening, non-separating, non-toxic paste.

Withstands up to 3,000 PSI on gases from -50° to +400°F, and 10,000 PSI on liquids from -50° to +500°F.

For use with water, steam, caustics or dilute acid lines of PVC, CPVC, ABS, cycolac, polypropylene, iron, steel or copper.


I think that as nasty as salt water is, it falls within the above parameters You can get this at your local hardware store.



-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[chaco]

Plastic Hose

Spiralite Spa-Flex is PVC spiral hose manufactured by Pacific Echo
(www.pacificecho.com). They DO NOT recommend using ANY
plastic hose below the waterline due to the fact that it will
eventually CRACK due to stress. They recommend using rubber
type spiral hose for below waterline installations, cause it
has better/longer resistance to stress cracking.
I would have to take their advise as GOOD, because they do not
manufacture rubber hose
They also indicated that Spa-Flex is NOT APPLICABLE for sanitation
because it is to porous for odor control :eek:
Well....so much for beating That Store at their own game !
They did recommend purchasing from your local industrial suppliers
as an alternative to the pricey Marine Shops.

Happy Plumbing /) /)

 

[NateHanson]

So, did you gather that even the white sanitation hose isn't recommended for below the waterline use? I imagine most of us are using this for head discharge, no? Is that a bad idea? I've never seen this stuff harden, but I also haven't seen 10 yearold installations yet.

Nate

 

[chaco]

The odor control properties of the new PVC sanitation hose points to
that application as being a tradeoff worth doing.
I looks like if we can use rubber type hose in all other below waterline
drain applications that we will have a longer lasting product.
Will have to talk to Shields and Trident to get to the bottom of this.
I have the same Christmas Tree type drainage on the E35-II cockpit.
My concern in doing some recent drainage piping around a new fuel tank
is that nylon or marlon fitting can not take the stress of the hose bends
required to make these connections. SO....I used ALL bronze fittings
to sleep better at nite !

 

[Glyn Judson]

Kirby, You can make your own barbed T-fitting from a bronze female T and three bronze (red brass, navy brass) barbs from off-the-shelf parts at West Marine or your favorite chandler. Glyn

 

[NateHanson]

I'd add that it's not a good idea, (in my lowly opinion ) to attach such a "christmas tree arrangement" directly to the threaded seacock. That long apparatus could really create a lot of lever-arm on the hull, through-hull, and seacock if someone or something heavy were to fall on the end of the 12" long bronze apparatus. I'm going to be redoing my sink/cockpit drain plumbing, and plan to put a short section of hose between the seacock and tee to create a stress release.

 

[Emerald]

So, did you gather that even the white sanitation hose isn't recommended for below the waterline use? I imagine most of us are using this for head discharge, no? Is that a bad idea? I've never seen this stuff harden, but I also haven't seen 10 yearold installations yet.

Nate

Hi,


I think there needs to be some clarification here about different types of hose. I have telephoned the manufacturers of the hose specified at Jamestown Distributors as seen here:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...arch;ID;,Marine.Plumbing,Hose,Sanitation.Hose

and I have also telephoned the technical support department of Shields, which is a large manufacturer of marine grade hose. I inquired specifically about the 149 and 148 series which can be found here:

http://www.shieldshose.com/shields/prod/hoses/bilge_live.html


Both companies confirmed that these hoses are designed for below water line use. I asked them directly about use as scupper line which would typically be left on always and would be below the water line. When used properly, they both said their products were fine in this application.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[NateHanson]

That's a good comparison on the Shields website of appropriate uses for the various types of hose you see at the store. Thanks David.

 

[Emerald]

Hi Nate,

There are so many products out there that look very much alike. As this discussion developed, I figured we needed to hone in on exactly what does and doesn't work. The only way I could figure to do that was start dialing and get it directly from the guys who make the specific products we should be using if we go the "plastic" route


-David
Independence 31
Emerald