Considering Options For Replcing Wilcox/Crittden Toilet
- Thread starter dcoyle
- Start date
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
My answer would be that it depends on what sort of boat you have, where you use it, and how you use it. Vacuflush is very nice for live aboard but does not make much sense on a 27 footer that goes out for a weekend here or there. Lavac is another one worth looking , but again not knowing your intented use makes it hard. Groco Compact manual is a pretty good head as is the raritan IMHO. Biggest problem with almost all new heads is that they are made entirely from plastic. Take a 200lb crewmember with a case of montezuma's revenge offshore in 35-40 kts and see how long the seat stays attached to the bowl, and how long the base of the head stays fastened to the floor. OTOH heads have gotten so cheap that if you get 5 years out of one its almost worth it to just chuck it and get a new one instead of bothering with the loathsome rebuild.
ChrisS
Member III
FWIW, I rebuilt a Groco Compact Manual last year, and it was fairly easy. I was impressed with the construction--it seems sturdy and built to be serviced--and have used it quite a bit since then (a six week cruise and lots of weekend trips with my wife and two daughters) without any problems. Ted makes a good point about size of boat and usage, but if you have a smaller Ericson, this Groco model is a good choice.
What model of WC do you have now? I am assuming it is one of their later lesser heads. Don't overlook getting a copy of Good Old Boat magazine and calling all the marine consignment shops and picking up a used WC Skipper (now sold by Thetford http://www.thetford.com/Home/Products/PermanentToilets/TecmaSkipper/tabid/104/Default.aspx). I just started going down the page and found one for about $100. I think Minnies http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/ has some on hand for even less. They are Solid bronze, near infinitely rebuildable, and a 300 pounder in a 6 foot chop ain't gonna break this one, and if you like bronze, you'll get weak in the knees looking at it's construction. These guys go for something like $1200 new, so a used one for a $100 or so is not bad. Defender has rebuild kits for about $80, so you can pick up a used one at the right price and have a heck of a head for under $200. Rumor has it you can flush a rain coat down one of these they work so well.
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Head Games...
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3650&referrerid=28
Here is a good toilet thread, and if you do a search on Raritan ph2 or Jabsco there are others on the site.
Before owning an Ericson that came with the more expensive Raritan, I spent a decade with a boat that came with a Par/Brydon/Jabsco head. Silly me, thinking that it was "normal" to rebuild the sticking pump every season or two. The SS screws would crack the plastic pump casting. The flush water "flap" valving would stick.
Having no mechanical leverage it was difficult to pump. I came to realize that it was always the on-sale cheapest-one-on-the-shelf for a good reason.
The Raritan PH2 works without problems or hassles. I am sure that there are other good alternatives, but I don't have personal experience with 'em.
Loren
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=3650&referrerid=28
Here is a good toilet thread, and if you do a search on Raritan ph2 or Jabsco there are others on the site.
Before owning an Ericson that came with the more expensive Raritan, I spent a decade with a boat that came with a Par/Brydon/Jabsco head. Silly me, thinking that it was "normal" to rebuild the sticking pump every season or two. The SS screws would crack the plastic pump casting. The flush water "flap" valving would stick.
Having no mechanical leverage it was difficult to pump. I came to realize that it was always the on-sale cheapest-one-on-the-shelf for a good reason.
The Raritan PH2 works without problems or hassles. I am sure that there are other good alternatives, but I don't have personal experience with 'em.
Loren
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treilley
Sustaining Partner
I have to agree about the Raritan PHII. Great toilet. I previously had a WC and it needed a rebuild every other year.
Another nice part about the PHII is that you can buy separately the toilet, pump or rebuild kit. So if your pump is beyond rebuilding and your bowl and base are still good you can replace just the pump.
Another nice part about the PHII is that you can buy separately the toilet, pump or rebuild kit. So if your pump is beyond rebuilding and your bowl and base are still good you can replace just the pump.
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What model WC did you have? I'm going the other direction - tired of rebuilding a PHII and going to the WC Skipper.
Thanks
My boat is an 82 E33, we cruise the coast of Maine w 2 adults 3 kids most weekends, 2 week summer trip, and weeknite race. The original WC head is the small model found on many boats from that era. It features a porcelan bowl with plastc rebuildable pump with T handle that always leaks, and a lever to allow pumping bowl dry. The rebuild kit for pump is still available from Thetford but getting expensive and not original parts from what I can tell. Based on pump performance I want to replace. Groco features brass base and strong looking pump and the Rariton gets god reviews. I haven`t considered Jabsco because it doesnt look very reliable, but is priced agressively.
My boat is an 82 E33, we cruise the coast of Maine w 2 adults 3 kids most weekends, 2 week summer trip, and weeknite race. The original WC head is the small model found on many boats from that era. It features a porcelan bowl with plastc rebuildable pump with T handle that always leaks, and a lever to allow pumping bowl dry. The rebuild kit for pump is still available from Thetford but getting expensive and not original parts from what I can tell. Based on pump performance I want to replace. Groco features brass base and strong looking pump and the Rariton gets god reviews. I haven`t considered Jabsco because it doesnt look very reliable, but is priced agressively.
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Which head is the best buy?
All, I'm with David here. The initial cost of a used Wilcox Crittenden or a used Groco K-H (both high end models) with the addition of a rebuild kit add up to well less than $200.00 and are so good that a generation from now they'll still be working flawlessly and if not can be made to without the need of buying a plastic pump assembly but an individual rubber flapper valve or the like. I've been in that plastic pump assembly purchasing cycle where its cost is so close to buying an entire replacement, invariably most folks end up doing the latter. I have the Groco K-H, paid $45.00 for it at Minney's and have about $15.00 or $20.00 in repair parts invested in it for a total of around $65.00. I might add that the head was one of the first things I changed in our boat close to 15 years ago and it's still working like a champ. The very same Raritan model that's being reverenced her is the one that needed a new pump in our boat and I'd already had enough experience with the plastic bodied pump assemblies needing somewhat frequent replacement when I had the cheap Groco model in our old E25+. It's not always the case that the cheapest is the best buy but suit yourself. My 2 cents worth borrowed from Loren, so that might tell you what my thoughts are really worth in today's market, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marine del Rey, CA
All, I'm with David here. The initial cost of a used Wilcox Crittenden or a used Groco K-H (both high end models) with the addition of a rebuild kit add up to well less than $200.00 and are so good that a generation from now they'll still be working flawlessly and if not can be made to without the need of buying a plastic pump assembly but an individual rubber flapper valve or the like. I've been in that plastic pump assembly purchasing cycle where its cost is so close to buying an entire replacement, invariably most folks end up doing the latter. I have the Groco K-H, paid $45.00 for it at Minney's and have about $15.00 or $20.00 in repair parts invested in it for a total of around $65.00. I might add that the head was one of the first things I changed in our boat close to 15 years ago and it's still working like a champ. The very same Raritan model that's being reverenced her is the one that needed a new pump in our boat and I'd already had enough experience with the plastic bodied pump assemblies needing somewhat frequent replacement when I had the cheap Groco model in our old E25+. It's not always the case that the cheapest is the best buy but suit yourself. My 2 cents worth borrowed from Loren, so that might tell you what my thoughts are really worth in today's market, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marine del Rey, CA
treilley
Sustaining Partner
I believe it was called the Headmate.