Two weeks ago I bought a lovely 1982 E-38 that hadn't had much attention in the last five years. I’m sure this won’t be my last request for help… A long time diesel leak has soaked the cabin sole. The sole near the engine disintegrated (and the wood structure under the aft birth has to come out), but the other sections are structurally sound, just impregnated. I’ve washed with Murphy’s Oil, but oil seeps out of the top after about an hour – no barefoot action on this boat. Any thoughts on how to draw out the oil, or do I need to follow the resurfacing, replacement strategies discussed in the other threads? Thanks to all - for this and for the other threads. They were a great help before and after the purchase.
Diesel Impregnation of Cabin Sole
- Thread starter Terri
- Start date
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- Tags
- cabin diesel impregnation sole
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
I had a diesel leak a few years back that had saturated my ply wood engine cover as well as my carpet (no wood sole on my E-27). I took the carpet out and saturated it with lots of fresh water and Simple Green and let it dry out for a day or two, then I washed it again the same way. It worked. I also did the same with the engine cover but then I refinished it by sanding it down to the bare wood and then bleached it at least twice with the A & B teak cleaner (Teaka).
Any time I have any kind of oil or diesel mess I use Simple Green and it really goes at the oil. As far as the label reads it is 100% biodegradable so I don't worry about it going back into the Sea. Simple Green is really amazing. You just have to be careful on certain surfaces like fiberglass because in increases the oxidation.
You may want to just try Simple Green or the Citris cleaners first on your cabin sole. After that you may want to sand and varnish or just use some teak oil on it because those cleaners may affect the surface.
Just one sailor on a budget humble opinion. Gook Luck.
Any time I have any kind of oil or diesel mess I use Simple Green and it really goes at the oil. As far as the label reads it is 100% biodegradable so I don't worry about it going back into the Sea. Simple Green is really amazing. You just have to be careful on certain surfaces like fiberglass because in increases the oxidation.
You may want to just try Simple Green or the Citris cleaners first on your cabin sole. After that you may want to sand and varnish or just use some teak oil on it because those cleaners may affect the surface.
Just one sailor on a budget humble opinion. Gook Luck.
treilley
Sustaining Partner
Welcome to the family Terri. You are obviously a person with high standards!
I have the same issue on an E35-3 that I bought last season. The DPO had poured unthinckened resin all over the sole which just made it look bad on top of smelling bad. The problem is that the original sole from Ericson was never sealed on the bottom so if any liquid comes in contact with the bottom of the sole capilary action just sucks it right in. No so bad with water as it will eventually evaporate but diesel doesn't go away.
My fix: I am currently ripping up the sole to be replaced with new 3/4" teak and holly. I plan on sealing the underside with resin. We removed all the cushions and washed the covers with woolite on gentle. We will wash all the foam and let dry in the hot sun for a few days. I have removed the fuel, water and holding tanks and cleaned the hull/liner underneath them along with cleaning under the sole.
We deffinately had a noticable diesel smell last season when we first entered the boat. It would disipate once the cabin was open and we soon got used to it when cruising for 10 days although all of our clothes smelled after we got off the boat from our cruise. I will be happy if I can improve the smell even a little bit as we really love this boat and can live with some minor annoyances.
I have the same issue on an E35-3 that I bought last season. The DPO had poured unthinckened resin all over the sole which just made it look bad on top of smelling bad. The problem is that the original sole from Ericson was never sealed on the bottom so if any liquid comes in contact with the bottom of the sole capilary action just sucks it right in. No so bad with water as it will eventually evaporate but diesel doesn't go away.
My fix: I am currently ripping up the sole to be replaced with new 3/4" teak and holly. I plan on sealing the underside with resin. We removed all the cushions and washed the covers with woolite on gentle. We will wash all the foam and let dry in the hot sun for a few days. I have removed the fuel, water and holding tanks and cleaned the hull/liner underneath them along with cleaning under the sole.
We deffinately had a noticable diesel smell last season when we first entered the boat. It would disipate once the cabin was open and we soon got used to it when cruising for 10 days although all of our clothes smelled after we got off the boat from our cruise. I will be happy if I can improve the smell even a little bit as we really love this boat and can live with some minor annoyances.
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It's a boy!!
I think you are dealing with at least a partial sole replacement. The wood sounds quite damaged, and I fear any effort to repair may be fruitless.
The good news is you will have lots of sympathy and sound advice from fellow vikings here-who have been through this before.
Think of it as an opportunity
and keep in mind what a good thing you are doing for the boat and your future enjoyment of it!
Best of luck,
S
I think you are dealing with at least a partial sole replacement. The wood sounds quite damaged, and I fear any effort to repair may be fruitless.The good news is you will have lots of sympathy and sound advice from fellow vikings here-who have been through this before.
Think of it as an opportunity
and keep in mind what a good thing you are doing for the boat and your future enjoyment of it!Best of luck,
S
So it's a replacement -- modern materials?
Thanks for your help - I knew I'd find the experts here. What I should probably have in my profile is that I have virtually no experience with wood work (or tools), and sadly my grandfather and uncle (experts) are no longer with us. They'd love this project. My thinking is go with a composite/plastic material -- Pergo for boats -- is there such a thing that could take the stresses and be ok if diesel ever touches again? My remodeling is focused on high reliability, reasonable cost, easy to clean. I love the classic work shown in many of the projects here, but that's not what I'm striving for while I'm working.
Thanks for your help - I knew I'd find the experts here. What I should probably have in my profile is that I have virtually no experience with wood work (or tools), and sadly my grandfather and uncle (experts) are no longer with us. They'd love this project. My thinking is go with a composite/plastic material -- Pergo for boats -- is there such a thing that could take the stresses and be ok if diesel ever touches again? My remodeling is focused on high reliability, reasonable cost, easy to clean. I love the classic work shown in many of the projects here, but that's not what I'm striving for while I'm working.
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
Teak and Holly would be the right replacement but that's a involved and costly direction but it is the way the sole should look on your boat. My little E-27 had no wood sole. In 1973 they came with Shag Carpet as a option believe it or not. See the old brochures in the specs & docs section. I was able to purchase a section of indoor / outdoor carpet, cut it to shape and have a hem sewn in all around it. It looks finished and is very durable and can be removed and washed if needed. I keep a dirt devil vac on board.
Regarding Pergo, I have a friend with a power boat that installed that stuff and it separated in less than a year, a big mess. I think Pergo is made of a kind of particle board with a veneer. Not sure.
A hemmed carpet is not a bad option if you are not worrying about keeping the original look of the boat. I am sure there are others here that would scoff at such an idea.
Regarding Pergo, I have a friend with a power boat that installed that stuff and it separated in less than a year, a big mess. I think Pergo is made of a kind of particle board with a veneer. Not sure.
A hemmed carpet is not a bad option if you are not worrying about keeping the original look of the boat. I am sure there are others here that would scoff at such an idea.
Mike.Gritten
Member III
Jeff,
we have the "plastic" sole on our old 35 mkII (no wood, just fibreglass and gelcoat with non-skid molded in). Last fall we did exactly what you described - went shopping for a durable carpet and settled on a luxurious looking navy blue with gold accents, made templates of the floor shapes needed, cut the carpet ourselves and then took it back to the carpet shop for the edge hemming. Total cost for the beautiful carpet and the finishing operations was less than $250 Canadian! We are thrilled with the result.
I can't remember what the carpet was made of, just that it could stand being wet and was super tough from a wear-and-tear perspective (we live aboard and that small floor space get lots of traffic). It feels wonderful on your feet, is easy to vaccuum (you can even remove it completely to wash and dry if necessary), and helps make the boat feel warmer in winter and more comfortable in the summer. There are no visible signs of wear when comparing the high traffic areas to the untouched sections and this is after 7 months of soggy PNW winter weather. Good deal all 'round.
we have the "plastic" sole on our old 35 mkII (no wood, just fibreglass and gelcoat with non-skid molded in). Last fall we did exactly what you described - went shopping for a durable carpet and settled on a luxurious looking navy blue with gold accents, made templates of the floor shapes needed, cut the carpet ourselves and then took it back to the carpet shop for the edge hemming. Total cost for the beautiful carpet and the finishing operations was less than $250 Canadian! We are thrilled with the result.
I can't remember what the carpet was made of, just that it could stand being wet and was super tough from a wear-and-tear perspective (we live aboard and that small floor space get lots of traffic). It feels wonderful on your feet, is easy to vaccuum (you can even remove it completely to wash and dry if necessary), and helps make the boat feel warmer in winter and more comfortable in the summer. There are no visible signs of wear when comparing the high traffic areas to the untouched sections and this is after 7 months of soggy PNW winter weather. Good deal all 'round.
Being a carpenter and kind of a purest when it comes to using wood were it is supposed to be used, I hesitate to offer this... but it might fill your needs http://www.worldpanel.com/lth.htm You would still need to put down a new ply underlayment and I'm not sure what you would do around the bilge access hatches...
WhiteNoise
Member III
Teak & Holly - real/laminate - both good options
I would agree with a replacement approach and would suggest real wood.
IMHO, for what it's worth, you will be happier with the outcome in the long run. I am actually about take on the same project myself, looked at both options, and decided I love the look of real wood ... but use "Ultimate Sole" to finish the wood.
If you want to look at the laminate (LONWOOD Teak-Holly) option you can look at many of the new Catalina models, the Catalina 309 for example uses a LONWOOD type material. That way you can see the final results first hand. It looks very nice, practical, and durable, but still is not like the real thing. Probably why Mark F was hesitant to suggest it ... but that of course is all in the eyes of the beholder.
treilley is right on:
"the original sole from Ericson was never sealed on the bottom so if any liquid comes in contact with the bottom of the sole capilary action just sucks it right in"
Undercoating the bottom of the new piece with resin or epoxy will minimize/prevent further future intrusion.
Hope that helps. Good luck and be sure to let us all know how it goes!
-Chris
I would agree with a replacement approach and would suggest real wood.
IMHO, for what it's worth, you will be happier with the outcome in the long run. I am actually about take on the same project myself, looked at both options, and decided I love the look of real wood ... but use "Ultimate Sole" to finish the wood.
If you want to look at the laminate (LONWOOD Teak-Holly) option you can look at many of the new Catalina models, the Catalina 309 for example uses a LONWOOD type material. That way you can see the final results first hand. It looks very nice, practical, and durable, but still is not like the real thing. Probably why Mark F was hesitant to suggest it ... but that of course is all in the eyes of the beholder.
treilley is right on:
"the original sole from Ericson was never sealed on the bottom so if any liquid comes in contact with the bottom of the sole capilary action just sucks it right in"
Undercoating the bottom of the new piece with resin or epoxy will minimize/prevent further future intrusion.
Hope that helps. Good luck and be sure to let us all know how it goes!
-Chris
Great ideas
I found Plasteak at http://www.plasteak.com/boating/boating.html and will go take a look at a Catalina. Seems to be something you would put on top of a structural piece.
I'm also told that West Marine has sheets of plastic (?) in various thicknesses that might be cut to shape. A friend is sending me a sample.
I'll think hard about the long run and value of wood. The sole in the head and v-birth are ok -- but that's it. The PO had already had a new piece built for the forward portion around the mast -- ok, that's part is also still good -- everything else is either hit by the diesel or water from an earlier mast leak. I'll take some pictures so we can appreciate the result.
I spent the morning following Treilley's advice about washing the foam. I used Pureayre Marine http://www.pureayre.com
and treated them like giant sponges. I had low plastic tray where I could put a mix of water and Pureayre in and it seems to have made a huge difference. I already had washed the covers in Orange Glo.
Really appreciate your help.
I found Plasteak at http://www.plasteak.com/boating/boating.html and will go take a look at a Catalina. Seems to be something you would put on top of a structural piece.
I'm also told that West Marine has sheets of plastic (?) in various thicknesses that might be cut to shape. A friend is sending me a sample.
I'll think hard about the long run and value of wood. The sole in the head and v-birth are ok -- but that's it. The PO had already had a new piece built for the forward portion around the mast -- ok, that's part is also still good -- everything else is either hit by the diesel or water from an earlier mast leak. I'll take some pictures so we can appreciate the result.
I spent the morning following Treilley's advice about washing the foam. I used Pureayre Marine http://www.pureayre.com
and treated them like giant sponges. I had low plastic tray where I could put a mix of water and Pureayre in and it seems to have made a huge difference. I already had washed the covers in Orange Glo.
Really appreciate your help.
WhiteNoise
Member III
I looked at the Plasteak website. You're correct. It does go over a structural piece. The stuff on the Catalina 309 cabin sole I mentioned is a teak and holly laminate and would probably be layed over marine ply. By the way, if you buy a sheet of "wood" teak and holly that will most likely be a vaneer of teak and holly over a marine grade ply.
They are very similiar. Two different top layer materials, same concept.
Hope that helps. As mentioned I will be doing the same project very shortly and will gladly share my approach, findings, and results.
Hope that helps.
They are very similiar. Two different top layer materials, same concept.
Hope that helps. As mentioned I will be doing the same project very shortly and will gladly share my approach, findings, and results.
Hope that helps.
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wheelerwbrian
Member III
On the plastic teak, last year we chartered a cat in the carib, and the Caine and Robertson had a plastic teak and holly sole. Looked ok, but when it got wet it was as slick as snot, causing me to break my toe early in the trip. We had towels down on it the whole time. I cursed it and vowed I would never have it in a boat I owned.
But maybe it was the brand...
But maybe it was the brand...
New test criteria
Never would have thought to try and skate on it first -- now that will be a first test. I hope it healed well.
At the rate the yard work is going (fuel tank replacement plus engine work), WhiteNoise's project will be long done before I start. I look forward to the results.
Never would have thought to try and skate on it first -- now that will be a first test. I hope it healed well.
At the rate the yard work is going (fuel tank replacement plus engine work), WhiteNoise's project will be long done before I start. I look forward to the results.
Jason
Fellow Ericson Owner
Plastic Lumber Cabin Sole
I've had this idea since ripping up my rotten, smelly, original cabin sole.
My thought: Use plastic lumber for the cabin sole.
Problem - wood rots and readily accepts and holds smells.
Solution - Plastic has neither of these two problems, however the aesthetics are not as appealing and it can be slippery.
PlasTeak and other vendors make tongue and grove plastic flooring in sizes that are comparable to real hardwood floors like in a kitchen, for example 1" thick by 2-1/8" wide.
What if I install plastic trim lumber like planks butted up tight to one another? I think it would look ok. (I'm having samples sent to me). The plastic surface can be installed with the knurled side up creating a non-slip surface.
I would not need to screw down every board, only a few as the T&G should hold the flooring in place. Plastic lumber can be worked with regular wood tools. So I can install all the inspection plates, router in the flush lift rings, etc.
Cost is comparable to or most likely, less expensive than plywood with a good sealer. Plus I never have to worry about re-sealing it - it really is maintenance free. I'd rather be sailing my boat, than working on it
Anybody else out there done a project like this?
I've had this idea since ripping up my rotten, smelly, original cabin sole.
My thought: Use plastic lumber for the cabin sole.
Problem - wood rots and readily accepts and holds smells.
Solution - Plastic has neither of these two problems, however the aesthetics are not as appealing and it can be slippery.
PlasTeak and other vendors make tongue and grove plastic flooring in sizes that are comparable to real hardwood floors like in a kitchen, for example 1" thick by 2-1/8" wide.
What if I install plastic trim lumber like planks butted up tight to one another? I think it would look ok. (I'm having samples sent to me). The plastic surface can be installed with the knurled side up creating a non-slip surface.
I would not need to screw down every board, only a few as the T&G should hold the flooring in place. Plastic lumber can be worked with regular wood tools. So I can install all the inspection plates, router in the flush lift rings, etc.
Cost is comparable to or most likely, less expensive than plywood with a good sealer. Plus I never have to worry about re-sealing it - it really is maintenance free. I'd rather be sailing my boat, than working on it
Anybody else out there done a project like this?
Salty Dawg
Sic Em WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF
Great Stuff
TT Custom Marine supplied my Plasteak teak and holly for my rebuild....www.ttcustommarine.com or 919.623.4591. They were willing to guide me through the installation and answer any questions. Great experience!
Be sure and ask for samples...they have several product lines. Plasteak and Amtico seem to be the top sellers.....I chose Plateak due to the traction and pliability. Amtico is very slick and stiff.
Good luck!
TT Custom Marine supplied my Plasteak teak and holly for my rebuild....www.ttcustommarine.com or 919.623.4591. They were willing to guide me through the installation and answer any questions. Great experience!
Be sure and ask for samples...they have several product lines. Plasteak and Amtico seem to be the top sellers.....I chose Plateak due to the traction and pliability. Amtico is very slick and stiff.Good luck!
Polymers that look interesting for sole
King Plastic Corp:
http://www.kingstarboard.com/Products/StarboardFamily.aspx
pdf on how to work with the material: http://www.kingstarboard.com/CMS/Media/Docs/workingwith.pdf
another supplier highlighting the antiskid version:
http://www.sdplastics.com/starboardas.html
Polymer from West Marine:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc.../0/0/starboard/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
This appears to be TACO brand:
http://www.tacomarine.com/cat--Marine-Lumber--marinelumber.html
Cheaper (seems to be TACO):
http://www.onlinemarine.com/cgi-loc...ce/taco_starboard_marine_lumber.htm?E+scstore
I'm afraid to do the pricing
King Plastic Corp:
http://www.kingstarboard.com/Products/StarboardFamily.aspx
pdf on how to work with the material: http://www.kingstarboard.com/CMS/Media/Docs/workingwith.pdf
another supplier highlighting the antiskid version:
http://www.sdplastics.com/starboardas.html
Polymer from West Marine:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc.../0/0/starboard/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
This appears to be TACO brand:
http://www.tacomarine.com/cat--Marine-Lumber--marinelumber.html
Cheaper (seems to be TACO):
http://www.onlinemarine.com/cgi-loc...ce/taco_starboard_marine_lumber.htm?E+scstore
I'm afraid to do the pricing