E 27 Chain plates

C. Trembanis

Member III
The chain plates on the E 27 are fiberglassed (incased) on the inside of the boats hull. Since these plates are SS, I am concerned about the lack of Oxygen creating a corrosive condition resulting in failure of the chainplates.
On inspection of my 34 year old E27 the condition looks good, however I'd like to know if others have had any problems with their chainplates.
Thanks. Chris Trembanis
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Stainless chain plate issues.

Chris, Only one reported instance of chain plate trouble has surfaced with the E31. It was the loose, port, aft lower shroud of hull #60 that alerted the owner to a bigger problem. Further inspection showed that the visible part of the chain plate was separating at the deck line from the lower unseen part. Of 73 E31's made, that's the only failure I know of. If one could gain access to the lower glassed part of their chain plates, I wonder if a small drain hole were to be drilled in the bottom the glass tabbing whether that might be of help? Thoughts anyone? Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55 Marina del Rey, CA
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
My E-27 is the same age. I had the same concern. When I replaced all my standing rigging five years ago my rigger did a inspection of the shroud chain plates and said they were fine. At that time when I looked at them my self, I saw no evidence of corrosion. I probably should take the panels off under the shrouds and take another look now that it's been five years. I have wondered why the shrouds are glassed in when the fore stay and split aft stays are through bolted and the plates are on the out side.

I would have to think that the glassed in shroud chain plates would be more protected from the elements because they are inside, where the stays are not.
 
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Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Glassed-in chain plates.

Jeff, The issue with these chain plates and how they're attached to the hull is that the glass can end up acting as a pocket that can retain salt water in them. A part of the solution would be to create a drain hole in the glass pockets and seal the chain plates at the deck to prevent water incursion, something that could have been done or should have been done at the time of installation but could be done now too. This reminds me of a thread from years ago on this list regarding salt water corrosion that created a leak in the lower corner of a diesel fuel tank. The problem was caused by a pocket created by the factory in that corner when the tank was glassed in, a similar potential issue with the glassed-in chain plates on your (and my) boat. Regards, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA
 

Gabriel Araya

Junior Member
Yes, chain plates can be a problem

Chainplates at E27 can lead you to break your mast as it happen to me. I relocated them at the side of the boat and I feel more secure.
 

CWM

Chuck
Gabriel:

Can you post photos of the new chain plates on your E27, or provide some details?

Thanks
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Hi Chris- I am have the same issue on my E27 :esad:. Check the Maintenance section for a thread from an E29 owner (jkenan) who did the same thing. I haven't figured out how to copy links, but the date on the thread is 4/27/06.

Even though I'm pretty sure my boat has been in freshwater for most of its life, it was severely neglected by the PO and has leaked badly. There is some surface rust on the exposed portion of the chainplates below the decks, so I am worried about crevice corrosion in the glassed in part, and am contemplating moving them to the outside too.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do.

Doug
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
I found this story at the Ericson Fleet One (Bay Area) Web Site:

I found this story at the Ericson Fleet One (Bay Area) Web Site: http://www.ericson27.com/news/index.html

This is from their August News Letter Page:
Welcome to new members Rick & Evelyn Zarlow who have already attended two cruises. They have Ericson 27 Windy (sail number 471) which they berth at Fortman Marina.

Rick has done extensive work on Windy. He had a chain plate failure which resulted in a dismasting. Rick explained that moisture which comes in from the deck and runs down the chain plate can collect in a V-shaped cavity where the chain plate joins the hull (see below). Corrosion at this joint is what caused his chain plate to fail. He has cautioned that we E-27 owners remove the wood panels and inspect our chain plates for corrosion. Thanks for the tip, Rick.

Nice little Sketch attached:

Time to re inspect mine!:esad:
 

Attachments

Gabriel Araya

Junior Member
Please see the attached photo. I urge all of you with 27 EY to remove the chain plates and put them out to starboard and port side. I was dismasted twice, the two times because of the same problem, a broken chain plate. And it was not until the second time that I learned the basic problem. The original place is a bad one.
Gabriel
Happy Hours
 

Attachments

CWM

Chuck
Gabriel:

Some questions for you:
Did you do the work?
Was the rub rail removed during the installation?
How did you know where to drill the holes for the two bolts for each chain plate?

Thanks
 

Gabriel Araya

Junior Member
Gabriel:

Some questions for you:
Did you do the work?
Was the rub rail removed during the installation?
How did you know where to drill the holes for the two bolts for each chain plate?

Thanks
Yes, I made the work myself.
The rub rail was not removed, I drilled the holes from the upper part.
The holes I made just guessing and I did used the old chain plates as backing plates.
Gabriel
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Wow, those aren't going any where!

Wow, those aren't going any where! Looks like you have done other modifications like the stainless hand rails, dorade boxes & cowl vents, and a cover for your companion way hatch.

This discussion motivated me to inspect my chain plates over the weekend. I did find some moisture in some of the the areas of concern, we just had a big rain the day before. I actually tasted it and it was not salty. I also wiped off some black stuff (not corrosion). I think it was soot or dust, the same kind of soot I have found in a lot of areas like under the cockpit. I don't know all the history on my boat but I know it was re powered with a 1980's model Yanmar. I think the soot I find could have come from a faulty exhaust system at one time. I don't think I am ready to replace my chain plates just yet, but I will be inspecting them annually from now on.
 

Gabriel Araya

Junior Member
Backstay Chain Plate

Jeff,
Be very careful inspecting the chain plates. A broken mast could take a life away.
Talking about other modifications, I am putting an attached photo with the modifications I did aft: a ladder in the middle because the backstay lands at the top of the bimini top leaving a lot of space to move around the helm and openning the opportunity for a permanent ladder. I place a thick (1/2" X 6") stainless steel piece across in top of the Bimini Top. Also see the table at the back that can also be used as a seat.
I have seen your pictures in your site and like the way you have your boat.
Gabriel
Happy Hours
 

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DockRate

Junior Member
chain plate modification

your boat looks great , i am about to do the same design with my chain plates . Did you have to adjust or rake your spreaders because of this? and also how difficult was it to drill though the original chainplate?
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?12245-E27-Chain-plate-move-and-standing-rigging-replacement-who-has-done-this

There is a horizontal strap that is buried in the hull that the upright chainplates are welded to. I made sure to drill through this strap to attach my chainplates. Drilling was difficult but I used a huge drill on slow speed. I drilled a pilot hole first then followed it with the right size bit. Use cutting fluid and lots of pressure. I had someone help me to apply massive pressure to the drill while I pulled the trigger. If you get a steady curl of material coming off the drill bit you are doing it right. Each bit will get you 2-3 holes then its useless.

I had new spreaders made and calculated the length based on the formula in the Rigger's Apprentice. The quick and dirty formula is the distance between the spreader base and the upper shroud attachment point divided by 5. In reality the change in angle is very slight as you are moving the shrouds out only a couple inches.

Good luck.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
combining threads (housekeeping)

DockRate

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[h=2]possible damaged chain plates[/h]
So this is my first boat and I've heard a lot of things from alot of people. I have a 1978 27 foot ericson sloop. The previous owners may have been very smart because they put a steel lag bolt through the alluminum mast you have an idea of how bright they were. But my concerns is that the factory chain plates are only glassed in, which in my mind dosen't seem very strong. They has been slight leaking on one side and the spreader bracket cracked (I fixed this), but the deck plate has pulled off the deck little (probably from the deck delaminating somewhat, that is the problem, and I'm afraid it's all connected, but i could be wrong. Should to dig into them to see how much damage if any occurred, and if there is structural issues, i was planing on putting chain plates running vertically down the hull and through bolting it using individual 4 inch g10 circular backing plates . My issue that I've heard might be that i would need to adjust my spreader to compensate for pushing my chains further out. What should i do ? Im not planing to sail to hawaii with this thing but i would like to sail and not worry about demasting. The less work i do is kinda the better because this is just one of my problems but it is a major one. I was just thinking about if there isn't very much damage and the original stainless is still very much intact i could reclothe it using x mate and apply exposy to add strength and save myself a lot of work. Any thoughts on how strong the original design of this standing ridging is out of the gate to begin with ?
Thanks​


 

DockRate

Junior Member
chainplate template

That was a very helpfull, sadly I have already made some considerable mistakes with my chainplates. I'll have to start again I think and be more aware with some of the issues that I could run into. I was wondering considering that we have the exact same boat(Erickson 27 sloop)and I basically want to do nearly the same thing you did , could you give me the template as fare as where the wholes where and how long you made the chain plate in order to match up with the original plate. It would be incredible helpfull to know that my template is close to spot on.
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Hi DockRate- I do not have the templates around, nor do I have the boat anymore to be able to measure them. But if I recall correctly, the chainplates were about 10 inches tall and 4 inches wide. I had to put all new rigging on the boat and new spreaders, so the rigging length changed. Since I had no way of calculating this I used screw-on lower wire terminals (Hayn Hi-Mods). For what it is worth, I believe that the horizontal straps that the chainplates are welded too are probably sound. The problem seems to be in the area of the welds or where the chainplate passes through the deck. When I did this job, I added big 1/2" G10 backing plates over the remains of the cutoff chainplate, and glassed that over to the hull side. Probably the G10 alone would have done the job.

To see if your shrouds will reach the new chainplate locations (I assume the mast is upright on the boat and I assume that the chainplates will be moved to the exterior of the boat), I would first cut away some of the fiberglass that overlies the existing chainplates so you can locate the position of the horizontal strap, since you will want to tie into it. Then mock up a chainplate out of wood or cardboard. With the mast properly supported with a halyard, remove one of the shrouds from the existing chainplate (mark the threads with electrical tape first!), and see if there is enough room for it to reach the new outboard chainplate position. Then replace the shroud and tension back to your tape mark. Repeat for all six shrouds. This should give you a reasonable estimation of how tall your chainplates must be. Keep in mind the shorter the better, to eliminate flex. As for width, I made mine wide enough so that I could get one bolt through the horizontal strap on each side of the remains of the welded upright chainplate

Also in your design, make sure you have enough meat between the edges of the chainplate and the hole for the rigging pins for the loads expected (there is a formula for this somewhere).

I'll dig around for some photos.
 
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