E-38 Main Sheet

[erobitaille]

Hello All,
Looking for some advice. My main sheet gear on my 1982 E-38 is worn out and I'm looking to replace it. I have looked a Garhauer equipment. Any pro's and con's? The fellow I spoke to at Garhauer recomended I replace the fiddle block attached to the traveller with a triple block which would change the sheet from a 4 to 1 purchase to a 6 to 1 purchase. The difference in cost is only about $20. The 6 to 1 ratio would appear to be an improvement but, it appears to me that when the boom is swung out on a reach or running down wind the sheet would want to twist up at the triple block . Has anyone out there made the is change?

 

[clayton]

I upgraded the mainsheet tackle earlier this summer on my 32-200 which is somewhat less than mid-boom sheeting. Went with 2 Garhauer double blocks on the boom, and had them fab a double fiddle block with becket which attaches to the traveller. Sheet is secured to the becket on the fiddle, then weaves between the 2 doubles and the double fiddle, then forward to a single, then down to a single at the mast base and finally back to the cockpit. The only sheet fouling problem I've had is with the boom way out in light air and wallowing around in powerboat wakes. The improved purchase is such that I can now haul the sheet in by hand and don't need the winch. The other downside I've discovered is that I will now need to upgrade the traveller track to the high beam style that several other 32-3/32-200 owners have done, due to flexing the sea hood. Total cost for the Garhauer blocks was approx. $160, blocks were the 30 series. (Garhauer was the only company that would fab a double fiddle block). I copied this setup from a friend's 38-200 that I crewed on...
Hopefully I can take a photo to post one day soon...
Clayton

 

[Richard Elliott]

Mainsheet

I have gone in the other direction on our E34, reducing mainsheet purchase by removing one block on the boom. The mainsheet leads down the boom at the mast to a turning block leading to the Stbd. cockpit winch on the cabin top..Much easier to wing the boom out in light air, but, of course the winch is required unless you luff up a bit.

 

[Chris Miller]

I wouldn't worry...

Just make sure you get a block that will swivel well... that way it shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to have the extra purchase, might have to look into that
Chris

 

[dwigle]

We went with a Harken system last year on our 38 and love it. I've had good luck with Garhauer equipment also, but would not recommend going to 6 to 1 because of the line length and you don't need it with the winch. I believe we have 5 to 1 now and use 100ft of line to control it; 6 to 1 would give you more control, but 20 more feet of line in the cockpit. Friction is the other worry, response in light air is reduced by the amount of line and number of blocks.
Short version: We changed ours, it works well, but you could do it much cheaper with Garhauer components. Come visit at Brickyard Cove, D-dock.

Don and Jan Wigle
Wiggle Room
E38 #8

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I am in the process of improving my main sheeting system on the E 38-200. It has the factory harken taveler which is fine but has 4:1 purchase via the Lewmar blocks, at least I think they are lewmar. These blocks do not have bearings. I suspect your 38 unless the blocks were upgraded do not have bearings as well. The spec for the 38 calls for 100' feet of sheet. I bought 100' of sheet, and watched them measure it out. I have quite a bit of sheet left over when the boomis all the way out on my boat, which tells me something about that particular spec.

I am going to first replace the blocks on the existing sytem with bearing blocks. That should reduce friction by roughly 20% according my rigging friend. Then we are going to go to 6:1 by adding a double block in the center on the traveler and on the boom with a becket. Basically the same as mentioned above, but I don't know if I will try to use fiddles. Several boats near me have the double block set up and I have not seen double fiddles around at a price I like. The biggest improvement you can make is using quality blocks with torlon bearings. The sheet will come in and out a lot faster and easier than with the factory blocks.

 

[erobitaille]

Clayton,

You are correct when I talked to Garhauer they offered to make up about anything I wanted at a decent price. So you used double blocks both on the boom and traveler and removed two of the single blocks on the boom? I would be concrened about have all the strain on the boom in one location. I assumed that is why the original set up was with three blocks on the boom to distribute the strain over a longer section of the boom.

Ted,

I do have the original set up and one of the shives in the fiddle block froze and now has a flat spot. The Gahauer blocks are all bearing blockes so the friction should not be an issue . I also plan to move the block at the goose neck back to the top of the boom vang as the main sheet is rubbing against the boom vang and is frayed. I was thinking to shorten the main sheet, when I have to boom all the way out I stall have about 20' of line in the cockpit. I have not removed the main sheet to see just how long it is but it sure could be at least 10'shorter.

Thanks all

 

[stbdtack]

mainsheet...

I have 3 single garhauer aluminum BB blocks on the boom and a Lewmar BB double sheave with a becket on the traveller. Leads forward to another Garhauer at the mast base then through harken deck organizer back to winch. So I guess it's a 5:1 since the line leading forward doesnt count as advantage. Would like to put a triple on the aft bail for more purchase but i'm afraid to point load the boom.

I sheet in by hand most of the way , then finish up with the winch. BBs make all the difference....

 

[erobitaille]

Ben,

I saw your set up at the Treasure Island raft up last summer and I'm looking to do much the same. I talked to the Guys at Garhauer again about the 6:1 seems most of them race and said I should be able to sheet the main in one hand with one hand on the wheel. Seems like the 6:1 is a lot.

Thanks

 

[stbdtack]

main sheet

Hi Ed,
keep in mind that alot of the race guys have end of boom sheeting. This makes a huge difference in mechanical advantage. We are sheeting from mid boom which takes much more tension. I kinda feel that if i'm going to have to use the winch for the last bit anyway i'd rather have less line laying around the cockpit.

I'm curious what difference a 6:1 would make over my current 5:1. I may add another single down at the traveller to temporarily make a 6:1 and see what i gain. If its nice this weekend I'll let you know.....

Hope to run into you guys again.....

 

[clayton]

Ed -
I replaced the aft 2 of the 3 single blocks on the boom with double BB Garhauers, and replaced the single fiddle on the traveller with a double BB fiddle. The stress on the boom is still all in the same places it was with the original setup, just the purchase has been increased. I saw a sister ship (32-200) this summer with a boom bail installed at mid-boom with a block attached, moving the stress points further aft, and I will go that route to further improve the purchase. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the Garhauer blocks. They are heavier than the newer Lewmars or Harkens, but they work smoothly. As the other guys have said, adding BB blocks makes the biggest difference over the original equipment. Going with increased purchase works for me since I'm alone most of the time, and when I have guests, they're usually more interested in the beer...
Clayton

 

[Loren Beach]

Lotsa ball bearings!

Pictured: new Garhauer mainsheet blocks on an E-32-3 in our YC. I have sailed some on this boat and now have partly changed my mind about mid-boom sheeting being awful. With all the ball bearings, the mechanical effort may technically be the same as before, but the difference in reduced friction is quite amazing in real-world sailing! Huge improvement.

Loren

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

That setup is 4:1. Would like to see a picture of Clayton's 6:1. I am still trying to draw it out on paper and figure out the best way to get to 6:1. Currently have three singles on the boom and a double fiddle with becket on the traveler. Just like the picture above except the becket is on the fiddle and not on the single on the boom. Tell me again how you got to 6:1? You say you have two doubles and a single on the boom and a double fiddle with becket on the trav? Im trying to envision how the line would be led or maybe I missed something.

 

[Seth]

6:1

There is a double on one of the top blocks, and double with becket on the other, and a triple at the bottom. That should do it. I think. Maybe.....

 

[stbdtack]

6:1 mainsheet......

I tried a temporary setup for 6:1 mainsheet system. What i ended up with is a 7:1 system (really about a 6 1/2:1) . The extra purchase was really noticable although there wasnt much wind so it didnt get a real workout. My existing 90ft mainsheet was enough to let the boom touch the aft lower from mid traveller position. If it wasnt for the BB blocks I think there would be too much friction for light air use.
So now I'll just get a triple/becket for the traveller (I had an extra double already for the aft boom bale) and I'm going to swap the existing 7/16 line for a 3/8 size for even less friction.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Looks good Ben. You say it runs smoothly with fair leads to the blocks? Looks like it would be fine. I would trade a little light air friction for improved purchase in all other conditions.

Seth: Not sure how you were getting 6:1 with the double, single with becket, and triple on the trav. There should also be a third singel on the boon right? Maybe you can walk me through it or draw it?

So far I am liking Ben's set up a lot.

 

[stbdtack]

main sheet...

Ted, the friction with extra blocks wasnt too bad. I think going to 3/8 line will help too. It all runs smoothly I just have to arrange the threading to look good. There was very little wind to play fairly but I noticed I can now pull the boom down much further by hand against the Vang spring than I could before. I think having the double out on the last bail helps with the mech advantage. I'll report back when its honkin out.....

 

[footrope]

Harken Airblocks - 4:1?

This is a good thread. For my mainsheet upgrade I pretty much stayed with the same setup as the original. I used the Harken load calculator and came up with the Airblocks. These blocks have cylindrical bearings and are the 57 mm size for big boats. I think the purchase is just 4:1. The blocks on the boom are singles and the traveler has a double with becket.

I was having friction problems with my old blocks and worn out line. The sheet diameter is 7/16". I measured the old sheet, which was more than adequate, and bought 65' of XLS. I originally bought 100' of Regatta braid which was really easy on the hands, but it was way too long with this setup and the non-covered line tended to snarl in the self-tailer jaws.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Craig,

Looks like 5:1 to me but I'm no expert. How well does this system perform verses the original set up? Which I am assuming was 3 singles on the boom and double fiddle w/becket on the traveler. Granted to OEM blocks were not with bearings. What I am specifically wondering is how do you like the amount of purchase? How much trimming can you do by hand? The OEM setup I have has me doing most of the trimming on the winch, unless the breeze is really light. I am thinking of going to a system like Ben's referenced above which is more like 6 or 7:1.

 

[footrope]

5:1 Purchase

Ted,

As a non-expert myself, with a dim memory of the calculation Harken led me through this summer, I guessed wrong. It is 5:1. I recalculated (Ericson 38 Sloop) again and captured the small picture of Harken Mainsheet System "7", which exactly matches my arrangement once we get to the mast. The photo is my old setup, which is exactly what you were describing.

The old fiddle block had been frozen by corrosion and had some sheave damage as a result. Even after I freed it and lubed the system the old twisted-up line going through the rope clutch made for a bad situation in any wind. It was hard to sheet in with any breeze blowing when preparing to gybe. My shoulders hurt for a month after the long downwind trip from Pt. Townsend in June. After the gybe the boom had to be pushed out by hand - not fun when sailing double-handed. We were always sheeting with the winch in a breeze over 10 knots.

So we went with the five swivel blocks and the double with becket. We managed to find a light day after we installed the new blocks with the Regatta braid, and in under 10 knots we could do everything by hand. The boom went out on its own even in 6-8 knots. The new line went through the clutch like it was greased. We did some final sheeting while upwind with the winch in 10-12 knots true wind, but just the last turn to take up the stretch.

We just bought and installed the blue 7/16" dia. XLS braid last weekend, so I haven't been out yet to check out the performance with the slightly stiffer line. I'll report back when I do. Getting the friction out of the blocks, and new "round" line really helped. The last piece of the system is an old Harken ball-bearing deck organizer that someone installed in place of the original Shaefer organizer. Unless it breaks I'ill wait until I re-do the decks to renew the anti-skid.

Any suggestions on uses for 100' of 7/16 Regatta braid that seems to snag as easily as a knit sweater?