E27 HEAD BASE

[tpcorrigan]

Hi all, when we got our E27 a few years ago one of the PO’s had removed the toilet and holding tank. We have been using a port a pot but now I am ready to reinstall a jasco head. i have 2 questions. 1: what is under the head ledge (for lack of a correct name)? Our boat has no access to that area and I assume there is plywood or something to screw toilet to but I don’t want to assume. Question 2: I can tell by the holes in the bulkhead that’s there was no loop above waterline. We are a Great Lakes boat and there is no through hull for waste. It is a closed system just head, holding tank and clean out. Also a vent. Since there is no through hull for waste do I need the loop? It does not look like they had one originally. Is there a compelling reason for me to install one? Thanks in advance _/)

tpcorrigan
1976 E27 “Big League”

 

[Mark F]

Hi tpcorrigan,
The head platform should be gelcoat covered plywood. It's a solid area to bolt into. Do you have a through-hull for the head supply?

 

[Christian Williams]

A vented loop between the pump and the bowl would prevent siphoning of lake water in under certain conditions.

Ericson didn't install one on my 32-3, so I kept the intake seacock closed when offshore. As diagram shows there ought to be a vented loop for overboard outflow, too, in a perfect world (a toilet-to-holding tank hose doesn't need one. )

 

[Loren Beach]

Regarding vented loops, none in our '88 boat either. We do have the standard "full Monty" Ericson head plumbing scheme with holding tank, deck pump out, manual o/b pumpout, and Y-valve.
Being cautious, we always turn off all of the head compartment thru-hulls when not aboard.
Probably somewhat due to luck, but we have never had a back flow from a bad joker valve in 40 years on two different boats.
Good reason to replace that valve every decade, tho.
Regarding the platform that our head is lag bolted into, it's plywood beneath a layer of molded fiberglass, gel coated on top.

 

[JPS27]

I have an ericson27 as well and as Mark says, there is space under that "head ledge". Being a tentative driller of holes in my boat for fear of sinking it, i would probably first look for an access from the locker where the tanks sit in the v-berth, thru the bulkhead into the space under the head ledge. I took plenty of pictures of this project from a couple of years ago.

At risk of starting a debate, if I was starting from scratch like you are, I'd at least consider a composting head.

 

[Christian Williams]

Does the 27 have a vanity sink with pressure water? If so you can easily plumb a fresh-water toilet ("T"'d off the sink drain), which eliminates the foul
smells of decaying organisms from lake or sea.

 

[tpcorrigan]

Thank you all for your advise. Our E27 does not have a sink in the head but may in the future. there is a through hull for water intake but none for the waste so no Y valve or any of that. We use the boat mainly as a day sailor going out at least three times a week in the summer and also some weekend overnights. A compost head would be overkill since we only plan on using it for "Emergency's". I was thinking of plumbing the water intake from the water tank and not the through hull so thank you for that suggestion especially if it cuts down on smells.

I have made a plate out of 3/4" mahogany that is covered in epoxy that will dress up the area and also make double sure us larger sailors can use the thing with confidence. I plan on epoxying this to the top of the "head ledge" and then screw down to what ever plywood is under the the gel coat. The Jasco will be screwed to this plate. I will say that this plate is only the start of making our boat look closer to "Lotus Flower's" interior. That wood work is incredible.

Again thank you all for your time and comments and be safe in this weird time.

TPCorrigan
E27
Big League

 

[Tin Kicker]

The ledge is just part of the TAFG grid and there is an empty space between it and the hull. There is almost no space outboard and substantial space inboard. You could easily install blind nuts, River-nuts, or something similar, as long as they were not at the extreme outboard corner. Even then, the hull is nearly a full inch thick in the E32 so probably not too much less in the 27.

 

[frick]

My 1971 E29 has a "spot" for the head. Originally it was a hose hose for the flush, and big hose for the "exhaust." I learned quickly to close the through the hulls to prevent water from backing up into the head. I reach those through the hull, there is small door just off the deck to the right of the head. It is a 100 blind access. To "see the Through the hulls" I have to empty out the starboard bench. Climb in head first, and with foot long wrench I can actually reach them. I too old for that stuff. What a pain. I did replace all the GATE valves on the boat, so the photos attached about the Before Pixs,

I was going to run plumbing up under the VEE Birth with an inflatable waste tank so I would not have to cut really big holes it the boat. I started to assembly the parts, and have never completed the job.

 

[JPS27]

Here is my set up after I took out the outlet/overboard connection and associated hoses and valves. I replaced H2O and waste tanks and after some thought decided to eliminate the overboard aspect. I capped off that thru hull for now. I don't sail were I can legally dump waste over, so there no temptation to do so.

 

[Mark F]

Hi TPCorrigan,

I don't think I would plumb the water supply directly to the head from the water tank. You could end up with cross contamination between the head and the water tank. When using the head sink for the freshwater supply to the head you have a natural separation (air between sink and faucet).

 

[kapnkd]

Hi all, when we got our E27 a few years ago one of the PO’s had removed the toilet and holding tank. We have been using a port a pot but now I am ready to reinstall a jasco head. i have 2 questions. 1: what is under the head ledge (for lack of a correct name)? Our boat has no access to that area and I assume there is plywood or something to screw toilet to but I don’t want to assume. Question 2: I can tell by the holes in the bulkhead that’s there was no loop above waterline. We are a Great Lakes boat and there is no through hull for waste. It is a closed system just head, holding tank and clean out. Also a vent. Since there is no through hull for waste do I need the loop? It does not look like they had one originally. Is there a compelling reason for me to install one? Thanks in advance _/)

tpcorrigan
1976 E27 “Big League”

You should find ample strength in the plywood below your “head-ledge” but your plan to add a bit more strength and height is a good one.

The original head in our ‘73 E-32 didn’t have a water intake loop and the water would seep up and just over the bowl rim to flow onto the cabin sole. Of course we simply shut the intake valve off after each use but had the head sat a little higher it would have been above the waterline when at dock or anchorage.

In our refurbishing, we added a 1/2” thick additional plate plus another 1/2” narrow piece under the head. Now it sits with the bowl ABOVE the waterline. Instead of wood, we used PlasTeak as it’s less susceptible to water damage over time. The flooring/sole is now covered with PlasTeak flooring, again for ease of care.

Like you, there was no vented loop on the intake and I opted not to put one in this go-round. The waste hose exits through our sink cabinet and then to a Y (since we still have a now unused thru-hull) and on to our holding tank installed in the V-berth storage.

We use grey water from the sink drain Ericson hooked up just in back of the raw water intake.

Here’s some photos of the various stages of our project. (We cut a larger hole around the head ledge so we could install a new thru hull. Another reason for the PlasTeak cover plate.)

A LOT of work but now that it is done it was worth it.

 

[markvone]

Thank you all for your advise. I was thinking of plumbing the water intake from the water tank and not the through hull so thank you for that suggestion especially if it cuts down on smells.

I would not plumb the head intake from a potable water tank thank you will be using for drinking, washing hands, etc. (And I don't think it is allowed?) A separate fresh water tank for head flushing would be ok.
With a head vanity sink with fresh water supply, you can tee the head intake into the sink drain line. Close the drain thru hull, run fresh water into sink until half full sink and then pump head with fresh water. This setup yields an air gap between water spigot and sink to prevent bacteria travel to your potable water tank.

Mark

 

[Christian Williams]

How about a vented loop in the drinking water supply line? That ought to work to prevent backflow--although I don't know if it's really "up to code."

 

[kapnkd]

Good thought Christian but I’d still be nervous about the potential bacterial growth in any section of a line coming from my water tank.

First Spring season with the boat up North, I didn’t flush just the “soda-pop” (special antifreeze) out of the lines enough and BOY!! ...Did I ever “Grease the Goose for a couple days! I’d hate to imagine the possibilities/results of head water contamination.

 

[Loren Beach]

Good thought Christian but I’d still be nervous about the potential bacterial growth in any section of a line coming from my water tank.

First Spring season with the boat up North, I didn’t flush just the “soda-pop” (special antifreeze) out of the lines enough and BOY!! ...Did I ever “Grease the Goose for a couple days! I’d hate to imagine the possibilities/results of head water contamination.

By Thor's mighty hammer! That is the most evocative post I have seen in some time!

 

[tpcorrigan]

Thought I would write an update to my original E27 Head Base post.

It's done and looks really spiffy. After reading and looking at all the information you all sent I settled on using the lake as my source and not plumbing from the water tank. After I watched a video of how a Jasco twist and lock works I realized the fresh water shares the same tube as what you had for dinner last night! Working with the heavy duty hose is a nightmare. You have to use a heat gun and if your not careful can melt or soften to much causing kinks that can't be fixed. Spent an extra $60 on hose do to my lack of "Hose Training".

All in all, after a week of "Boat Yoga", the head is done. Again thanks for all the suggestions.

One day we hope the interior will look as nice as "Lotus Flower".

TPCorrigan
1976 E27 Hull #850

P.S. I found out today that the Marina where we dock will not be opening the bathrooms in the foreseeable future. Thank God for timely projects.