E29 - Masthead and Bow Light Questions

[adam]

Please help solve my confusion.

I have switches in my fuse box for a masthead light and bow light. Neither do anything at the moment. But both of them have wires coming off of them. I haven't yet tracked down where they go.

There is a light (non-functional) 2/3 of the way up the front of the mast. I I have been assuming that is the masthead light. But if that's the masthead light, where was the bow light?

I also need some mechanical advice. I went up the mast to try changing the bulb, but the screws seemed frozen in place. Also, the bulb looked good from the outside, so it's quite possible that it's a wiring problem.

What's the best way to get those screws loose? And, does it make any sense at all to try to fix this while the mast is in place, or should I just wait until I take down my mast (something I'm not really excited about doing)?

Thanks for any info/advice.

 

[mherrcat]

The light in the middle of the mast is usually "functionally" the "masthead" light, but is also known as a "steaming" light. An all-around white light at the top of the mast is the anchor light. However, depending on the size of the boat, the "masthead" light may be a tri-color light combining the bow/side lights and the stern light. I think I got all that right...

Here is a link to some info and some animations:

http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/reviewpages/boatusf/project/info2c.htm

 

[Glyn Judson]

Chasing an open circuit.

Adam, There's no better way to begin to understand your boat's electrical system than to get down and dirty with your present lighting woes. Buy an affordable multimeter at Radio shack, etc, read the instructions and figure how to use it to check for an open circuit and go at it. Start at the switch and work your way to the respective lights. You might need a length of extra wire to span the gap between, let's say your switch and the next available location to check that wire. In the case of our E31, those wires are accessible on a terminal strip in the head right beneath the deck-stepped mast. Here's where your extra length of wire would come into play. Connect the multimeter (set to ohms) from the switch to the terminal strip. It would be helpful to have a second person with you to speed up the process. Next, check from that same wire on the terminal strip to the wire returning from the light in question. In the case of my terminal strip, there was a wire schedule taped to the inside of the teak cover. Check to see if you have such a wire or through the process of elimination, compare the wire colors to those on the back of the switches in order to determine which lone wire is the ground coming down from the mast. Make a wire schedule once you've figured it all out to save you or someone the hassle next time. Also, I think what the majority of us know to be the steaming light (lit at night when under power) is also called the bow light. It's the one you reference that's located 2/3 of the way up the mast. The masthead light is just that, on top of the mast and is designed to be lit when at anchor. It may well turn out that the bulbs are indeed blown and that's just a case of mechanical force to remove the screws and bulb(s) from their respective socket(s). If that's the case, consider converting to an LED for the masthead light at least, the reason being that it'll draw a fraction of current to operate all night long. I invite others who I'm sure know well more than I do to chime in on the subject but nonetheless hope that some of what I've written will be of some help. Go for it, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Adan

Glyn's advice is good except that on the E29 the terminal strip is at the top of the compressiom post on the starboard side. On my 1978 E29 the labeling is Masthead for the top of the mast and bow light for the one 2/3 of the way up. During the day you may not be able to see the light.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Where's the terminal strip?

Randy, In truth, my terminal strip is also attached to the compression post, also on the starboard side. It's just that in order to be located there, one finds himself in the head on the E31. Cheers, Glyn

 

[mherrcat]

I wish someone would tell me where the mast wiring terminal strip is on the 30+ because it seems like I am going to have to rip out headliner to find one...

 

[Glyn Judson]

Where are those darned wires?

Mark, Although never having owned an E30+ we did own the 25+ version and sure enough, the wires in question were at the top of the compression post in the head, starboard side right where the mast base was situated. But the wires were not made so accessible as spoken of above, they were accessed by having to pull that corner of the headliner away enough to get to them. You too can try the same by deftly removing the staples with a small pair of duck nosed pliers or even an ice pick (hang on to the staples, more about that in a moment) and searching that same corner for signs of wires. It may well turn out that there will not be a terminal strip there in your case at all, just a wire harness routed up and into the center of the mast base, terminating at a four-pin plug well out of your vantage point, actually inside the mast. If that's the case, mystery solved and I'm pretty sure it'll turn out pretty close to that. After doing what you need to do in there, replace the headliner and welt by using the staples you saved. The trick is to not pull too hard on the vinyl but instead, just tug enough in order to line up the staple holes in the headliner with those in the little wood battens. Then gently press the staples into the aligned holes, one staple at a time and before you know it, it'll all be put back in place and none will be the wiser that you were even in there. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey. CA

 

[Slick470]

Mark, do you have zippers that go across the headliner near the compression post? On our Olson, the terminal strip is just under one of those headliner zippers next to where the mast comes through the partners.

Just a guess since the boats are similar in size and Ericson may have been consistent in their practices.

Andy

 

[Loren Beach]

Just to add some more info (or confusion) our '88 had the masthead instrument wiring going to a terminal strip under the headliner to one side of the mast. The factory wiring run for masthead anchor light and the steaming light/ foredeck spot light fixture, OTOH, ran under the headliner and forward to the top of the bulkhead. There they were concealed under the teak trim strips that led them over to cabin side, down that joint, and then under the vinyl headliner under the side deck. Sheesh.

Some years ago when we had the spar down for re-wire and re-rig... I added a terminal strip for the 12 volt wires.

Loren

 

[toddbrsd]

Stubborn Screws

I took a trip up the mast a few weeks back to replace the "bow" light (the one 2/3 the way up). I don't have a light on the top of the mast on my E27 although there is a switch for one on the panel. The screws would not budge. I sprayed it with some PB Blaster hoping that would do the trick, but ran out of time. Went back up a week later and tried again. This time I sheared the head of the screw right off. I am now resigned to the fact that I will have to shear the other one and drill new holes or try and drill out the old screws. Also plan on going LED. I have only done day sailing so it has not been a priority.

Also, if you have not checked on the User Manual for the E29 under the "Resources" tab above, you will find an electrical layout.

Good Luck

 

[mherrcat]

I do have a zipper in the headliner just aft of the compression post in the main saloon and one in the head to port of the compression post. Nothing is visible when those zippers are opened and I have been reluctant to start pulling staples and headliner as I have noticed in other places that the staples are rusty and I am afraid I will not be able to get the headliner back in place.

All my mast lighting works with the exception of the foredeck light. The bulb was replaced about two years ago but apparently that wasn't the problem.

 

[Slick470]

Mark, I spent an hour or so one afternoon halfway up a friend's mast trying to get the foredeck light to work on his boat. The design of a lot of the foredeck lights has the bottom of the fixture open to the elements. This allows the interior of the fixture to corrode easier. I ended up disassembling the whole thing and cleaning its parts to shiny metal at all of the connection points and replacing the internal wires before it would work again. All while dangling from a halyard.

I'd say that the fixture itself is most likely your weak point and not the terminal strip inside the boat. Although it would still be a good thing to find it for future reference.

Andy

 

[adam]

Randy has answered my primary question. Thanks!

I have looked and looked, but I don't see any terminal strip. I can't access them from below and I can't get at them from the deck. Maybe I'll find it someday when I remove the mast. But I don't think that I really need access to it right now.

I'll just have to pull out the light housings and see what condition they're in.

Todd, thanks for that reference. I have the owners manual, but didn't realize that the electrical was in a different doc. That is very useful.

And your story is _exactly_ what I fear.

So, are there any better solutions for getting these screws loose?

 

[Frank Langer]

Mark,

On our 1984 E30+ the connections for the lights in the mast are in the bottom of the mast, not accessible from inside the boat near the head. We had to lift the mast about 18" in a sling and then one can reach up into the bottom of the mast to pull down the wire connections. There are four of them, and they had gotten a bit corroded, so we cleaned them up and everything worked except for deck light which shines down from the steaming/bow light. It required a new bulb which was available from West Marine (Aquasignal 25).

Frank

 

[mherrcat]

So where do the wires enter the interior of the boat. They have to come in somewhere, right?

 

[Frank Langer]

Mark,

The wires come from the mast through a hole in the deck (maybe through the mast step, if I recall, but not sure). The only place inside the boat that they are accessible is in the zipper area of the head--look for four wires there when you open the headliner zipper in the head. Although there are no connections there (as they are up in the mast) I was able to check the four wires to ensure that I had power there, and that the problem wasn't between the panel and the mast.

It would have been easier if the boat had been built with the connections under the headliner. I have no idea why the put them inside the mast where they are almost inaccessible and exposed to moisture.

Frank

 

[mherrcat]

Sorry to keep asking questions!

What type of connection is it inside the mast?
Since there are four wires I take it they are the anchor light positive, bow/steaming light positive, foredeck light positive, and a common ground?
If the ground is common, where are the individual wires from the fixtures combined?

 

[Frank Langer]

Mark,

There was a four wire plug in connector inside the mast (I think it was similar to on a trailer hitch, though not identical) which connected the four wires--ie. three lights plus a common ground. I can't remember the details, but it was pretty straight forward when I saw it, so you shouldnt have any trouble with it.

Frank

 

[Glyn Judson]

They're there somewhere.

Mark, Those wires are there somewhere, they have to be. Look for a vertical teak batten or similar running from the headliner down the compression post to whatever near the sole. Look to see if there are screws and finishing washers holding it in place. If it exists, that's where the wires will be, neatly tucked into a crack and hidden from view. Inexplicably, the four wires in question on our boat led from a terminal strip at the top of the compression post and up through a 6" riser (stand pipe?) welded to the mast base and about 6 more inches into the middle of the mast. They ended at one of those really cheap and far from watertight four-pin plugs, about the dumbest way of doing things I can imagine and a formula for failure due to corrosion, dirt and anything else. About 13 years ago I too had electrical problems from above and resorted to cutting a hole in the port side of the mast that I covered with a highly polished and gasketed stainless steel cover plate. This at least allowed me to access and clean up that darn plug which solved my problems. Then in the summer of 2006 when I had the mast pulled and repainted, I took the opportunity of installing a new, smaller terminal strip like this 4 terminal one http://bluesea.com/category/9/36/productline/190 to the side of the compression post just below the headliner right where the old one had been. I actually made up an all new extra long harness for the entire mast but in your case you could add extensions to your existing ones thereby eliminating that no-good plug altogether. Just make sure to seal the crimp connectors well if you decide to add the extra length of wire. I like Liquid Lectric tape in a bottle myself for such applications. All the wires in the mast harness now lead directly to that terminal strip and the mating wires from the switch panel are similarly attached and you can do the same. Also, if ever the mast is pulled again, I left a long enough service loop in the harness for the mast to be raised a foot or two. The wires can be detached from the strip in the head and gently pulled up and out of the riser. I made a larger teak cover for the strip and my mast instruments that nicely covers all the wiring. Please feel free to email me for supporting photos of all I described above. Hope this helps, Glyn Judson E31 hull #55, Marina del REy, CA

 

[Glyn Judson]

Oops, forgot something.

Mark, I can be reached at glynjudson@roadrunner.com Glyn