Ericson 29 v.s. Ericson 27

[sailormatt]

Hello!

Very new here... I am in the market for a small liveaboard sailboat during college and after. I am living in the SF Bay area and I came across an E27 and an E29... from what I could tell, there isn't much difference.

My real question is, is one significantly better than the other? What does the E29 do that the E27 can't and vice versa? Should I just buy one that's in better shape or is the extra 2 feet worth more than face value?

Thanks for your comments!!

 

[aj vollmer]

Matt,
My son has lived aboard in the SF bay area during his time in med school over the last 3 years so I have some relatively recent experience figuring all this out.

First thing is to see if the marina where you want to live or the boat is at will accept you living aboard on the size boat you want/can afford. Our experience is that most marinas in the SF bay area want at least a 35 foot boat for anyone living aboard. Now some folks use the "sneak aboard" method so that they can live on smaller boats and also avoid paying the extra live aboard fees. And some folks sell smaller boats as live aboards with the "assurance" that this is OK. Our experience is different. The marinas we've been at have card key entry and can track coming and going. Maybe you can get away with it, but be aware there are risks.

Marinas also often want a recent (within 2 years) marine surveyor's report and of course insurance. Some inspect the boat to make sure it is suitable for their marina. Some times if you buy a boat and the marina likes the PO, they grandfather you in with minimum hassle. Though I've not found that the minimum size is ever waived.

So I'd do some research and make sure you end up actually making this work. That said, my son has thoroughly enjoyed the experience. We ended up with a 1972 Coronado 35 MS (known widely as the Windabago) and it has been great for us. It is the perfect studio apartment and you can't beat the monthly cost -- around $500/month as a legit liveaboard. It also got the family into sailing and we've had some great trips. The high freeboard is a real treat making passage in high wind -- we call it our third sail. But the old boat is great for family cruising and a solid bay boat.

In fact the old Coronado got us to buy a smaller boat for day sailing (an Ericson 27) off Craigslist and that boat is one of the joys of my life. The Ericson 27 would work as a liveaboard (a bit tight depending on whether you can fit in the v berth to sleep.) But again the issue is academic unless you have hard evidence that the marina will allow boats that size as a liveaboard.

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Andy

 

[sailormatt]

Wow Andy,

Thanks for all that information. I am attending the California Maritime Academy in Vallejo.

Instead of finding an apartment, I want to buy a boat! I've been sailing for 6 years now...

I had no idea about the length resteictions. I will be sure to call and plan ahead. It looks like I'll have to get a survey done too. I figured that might be good anyways.

I'm simply scouring CL for a suitable sailboat no more than $5,000 (which has been a little struggle). I'm no stranger to fixing up boats, but I still want to be able to sail on the weekends.

We'll see what happens!

Thanks again,

Matt

 

[Loren Beach]

No bad choices...

If the slip fits and marina rules for liveaboards allow, and all else being equal... I would focus on the E-29. More room inside and a little more waterline. Ultimately waterline is the determining factor for speed under sail (and power).

Of course, all other factors are never equal!


Regards,
Loren

 

[aj vollmer]

Matt,
We bought our liveaboard boat in Vallejo and berthed it Benicia for a couple of years so we have some info on the marinas in the area.
There are members on this forum who know the area much better than I and hopefully they will add more info and suggestions.

My apologies in advance if you are already up on the area but here is what we went thru.
The four marinas in the area I'm familiar with are Vallejo, Benicia, Glen Cove and Martinez.
Vallejo is an OK marina and there is an adjacent boat yard, but the area around it can be a bit rough. The harbor master has the paperwork to apply for a berth and it would be worth asking them about boats for sale and/or lien boats. The advantage would be you could bike to the Academy.

Glen Cove is right next to the Carquinez bridge and while it is nice, we couldn't take the traffic noise. Still would be worth dropping by and asking about boats.
I've seen them list some for sale along with discounts if you berth there.

Martinez is across the strait and has some access issues due to silt. We've visited there and the proximity to the town is nice but it is a bit of a commute to Vallejo. Still worth looking at.
It is an Almar marina and they have a size limit for liveaboards and require a recent survey.

Benicia was our choice as the town is really very comfortable and it would be a quick commute to Vallejo if you have a car. There is also good bus service available.
You can walk to Safeway up the hill and there are a number of nice restaurants. A really great town and very safe. Most likely we'll be headed back up there early next year for the finish of school year four.
The harbor staff are reasonable and friendly and the marina is well maintained and safe.

There are marinas further east and you often see good sized boats for sale on CL that are berthed there and further up river.
At the risk of offending members from those areas, my impression is that many older, reasonably priced boats go up river to die as the berthing fees are less, so you might find a deal.

Happy hunting.

Andy

 

[adam]

I have an E29 and friend has an E27.

The E29 isn't just 2' longer, it's also IMO got a MUCH better designed interior. The massive double wide+ rear Quarter berth either used as storage or as your primary bed adds a ton of usable room to the boat.

In my experience all marinas in the area require insurance, but I haven't actually seen one which required a survey. They seem okay with a photo or two showing that the boat is actually a usable boat, not some horrific wreck which is likely to be abandoned.

It is true though that most marinas in the area require a minimum of a 35' boat for a liveaboard. I know Fortman is one example that doesn't, but it also had a years long waiting list for one of those illusive small liveaboard slips.

 

[Loren Beach]

Referencing the excellent reply about insurance and a possible need for a survey, I believe that many insurers will require a recent survey before they will cover a boat. So you're going to need a survey, pretty much no matter what.

Loren

 

[adam]

Referencing the excellent reply about insurance and a possible need for a survey, I believe that many insurers will require a recent survey before they will cover a boat. So you're going to need a survey, pretty much no matter what.

Progressive did not require anything to ensure my E29. I just called them up and it was done.

It may be possible that they require surveys only on boats over a certain value.

 

[PDX]

Progressive did not require anything to ensure my E29. I just called them up and it was done.

It may be possible that they require surveys only on boats over a certain value.

Yes. Our homeowner's policy insurer did not require a survey. I have heard that boat value does make a difference and that a typical survey threshold is $20,000.

 

[Shelman]

I live aboard my E26 with my wife during the summer months and two feet is a big deal on a boat that small!!
Our marina doesnt ask many questions but were not in California either. BoatU.S. didn't ask for anything but some pictures for our insurance coverage. but the policy is only $20.000

 

[Ike]

Berkeley's minimum for liveaboard is either 25 or 26 feet IIRC. I would suggest getting the boat you want and become active sailing it first while living in an apartment or renting a room. Establish yourself at the marina and then after the first month, go ask about liveaboard and get yourself on the waitlist. berkeley and emeryville both have been cracking down on sneakaboards and derelict boats over the past couple of years. I doubt you'll get a warm welcome if you call them up and your first ask is about liveaboard. You are allowed to spend 3 nights per week aboard your boat in a non liveaboard slip. they just want to know that you have a mailing address and that the boat isn't going to sit there rotting in the slip as a cheap apartment.

good luck