Ericson 35 MKll spinnaker setup

[Seth]

35-3 spinnaker set up

Sorry about that. I should have looked more closely. The 35-3 is a different scenario, but many general concepts apply. You need the vang on it's own cleat. Given the mainsheet arrangement on your boat, the vang is very important, and must be powerful enough not to need a winch. If you dont have a solid vang (Kicker, Garhouer, etc.), you want one, and then you can remove the boom topping lift. Also you can easily change the pole lift to 2:1 and lead the vang, pole lift and foreguy to camcleats on the side of the cabin top. When racing, the vang may need to be eased in a hurry, so you want it off the stopper and winch. This is all I have time for right now, but there is a lot to think about. I think you can stay with end for end as long as you use sheets and guys. Not ideal, but a fair compromise. Cheers

I've actually got the 35-3, which I thought had a reasonably appropriate sized rudder (though I had heard the 35-2's rudder was a bit small and Foss Foams had a better shape/size on-hand for it). If for the E35-3, though, I'd be interested, but admittedly that upgrade may be a bit later in the budget...

In examining my setup, it DOES look like I could replace my existing halyward winches with these Barient 23s and have a servicable secondary winch system to run the sheets. My only worry is that the port winch presently also assists the topping lift if needed, so I'd be S.O.L. if in a heavy breeze and needed extra tug on that. Poor thinking on my part I suppose since while the pole is on the starboard side you'd be using the port secondary to run the sheet.....may need to swap a line from one side of the mast to the other. I presently have vang and cunningham running aft on the starboard side to the mainsheet trim station, but I suppose my foredeck guy could take responsibility for one of those (my initial thought would be cunningham) and send the topping lift over to the starboard side where the lazy sheet would be while the pole is on the starboard side. Or, maybe I'm crazy and doing a dip-pole (I'm admittedly only skilled in the end-for-end jibe, but understand the dip-pole in theory and understand this to be the only way to go on my boat) with the topping lift won't require any more than 1:1. Again - thanks so much for the feedback. More pondering and thinking this through I'm sure will yield a better system!

 

[MarineCityBrian]

Sorry about that. I should have looked more closely. The 35-3 is a different scenario, but many general concepts apply. You need the vang on it's own cleat. Given the mainsheet arrangement on your boat, the vang is very important, and must be powerful enough not to need a winch. If you dont have a solid vang (Kicker, Garhouer, etc.), you want one, and then you can remove the boom topping lift. Also you can easily change the pole lift to 2:1 and lead the vang, pole lift and foreguy to camcleats on the side of the cabin top. When racing, the vang may need to be eased in a hurry, so you want it off the stopper and winch. This is all I have time for right now, but there is a lot to think about. I think you can stay with end for end as long as you use sheets and guys. Not ideal, but a fair compromise. Cheers

Absolutely no apology necessary! Only thanks on my side for taking the time to help me (and hopefully others who read this post) out!
I do not presently have a solid Vang, but plan on doubling the purchase on the one I do have (I bought the old main sheet off a friend who parted out his O'Day 27). 4:1 will go to 8:1 which is more reasonable. The Vang will have it's own rope clutch, as envisioned, and led aft to the Starboard side cabin top along with the Cunningham and Starboard Spinnaker halyard all through the same triple rope clutch. Main sheet goes through the same deck organizer on the forward cabin top but then will go to it's own winch outboard of the traveler tower (which appears to be the way Ericson ran boats equipped with "optional aft-led lines" came from the factory).
Changing pole lift to 2:1 would not be hard, but would likely require me to buy new topping lift line at this juncture. In anyone's experience is 2:1 or winch assistance typically needed on the topping lift on the 35-3? Also are rope clutches not the way to go? I did buy the Lewmar ones at a friend's urging, and they really are next-level. Absolutely no difficulty releasing even the most highly loaded lines and appear thus far to be very low-wear on the lines. I'd imagine a cam cleat *may* be released with slightly more speed but then again when highly loaded can be somewhat difficult to release.
Thanks again for all of the advice!!!!

 

[Christian Williams]

The larger Ericsons have 2:1 for the topping lift (One block inside the boom). I see no need for more.

 

[MarineCityBrian]

The larger Ericsons have 2:1 for the topping lift (One block inside the boom). I see no need for more.

For the topping lift inside the boom, yes (and the 35-3 is the same; 2:1 ratio, and it's more than adequate. That said I changed the Outhaul to 4:1 from the installed 3:1 and it's made a world of difference).
I was speaking of the topping lift which comes out of the mast near the upper spreaders and lifts the Spinnaker pole (I've always heard it called that, but perhaps my nomenclature is incorrect?)

 

[Seth]

On vangs

8:1 is a bare minimum for a vang, and at that you still need a winch. For cruising or very shorthanded racing this is ok, but if you have interest in higher level competition, the vang must not be on a clutch, and certainly not connected to the mainsheet. But all of this really depends on how you define racing.
Feel free to call. 312 401 4974.
Cheers

Absolutely no apology necessary! Only thanks on my side for taking the time to help me (and hopefully others who read this post) out!
I do not presently have a solid Vang, but plan on doubling the purchase on the one I do have (I bought the old main sheet off a friend who parted out his O'Day 27). 4:1 will go to 8:1 which is more reasonable. The Vang will have it's own rope clutch, as envisioned, and led aft to the Starboard side cabin top along with the Cunningham and Starboard Spinnaker halyard all through the same triple rope clutch. Main sheet goes through the same deck organizer on the forward cabin top but then will go to it's own winch outboard of the traveler tower (which appears to be the way Ericson ran boats equipped with "optional aft-led lines" came from the factory).
Changing pole lift to 2:1 would not be hard, but would likely require me to buy new topping lift line at this juncture. In anyone's experience is 2:1 or winch assistance typically needed on the topping lift on the 35-3? Also are rope clutches not the way to go? I did buy the Lewmar ones at a friend's urging, and they really are next-level. Absolutely no difficulty releasing even the most highly loaded lines and appear thus far to be very low-wear on the lines. I'd imagine a cam cleat *may* be released with slightly more speed but then again when highly loaded can be somewhat difficult to release.
Thanks again for all of the advice!!!!

 

[Christian Williams]

For the record, "spinnaker topping lift" is the approved term (sloppy reader, not sloppy writer). I do tend to think of it as spinnaker lift, to avoid confusion.

 

[gadangit]

8:1 is a bare minimum for a vang, and at that you still need a winch. For cruising or very shorthanded racing this is ok, but if you have interest in higher level competition, the vang must not be on a clutch, and certainly not connected to the mainsheet. But all of this really depends on how you define racing.
Feel free to call. 312 401 4974.
Cheers

Hi Seth-
Can you explain the need for so much purchase on the vang? Is this particular to this boat or to symmetrical spinnakers? I only ask because it seems with 8:1 on a winch would be close to breaking the boom in half. We put our back into our 4:1 and have mid-deck crew hold the line in hand ready to blow if we are feeling overpowered.

Chris

 

[Loren Beach]

Hi Seth-
Can you explain the need for so much purchase on the vang? Is this particular to this boat or to symmetrical spinnakers? I only ask because it seems with 8:1 on a winch would be close to breaking the boom in half. We put our back into our 4:1 and have mid-deck crew hold the line in hand ready to blow if we are feeling overpowered.

Chris

I am no expert, but having a vang with a Lot of purchase helps guarantee that it will be used a lot and with one hand. Our vang purchase is 6 to 1, and that is pulling on a 2 to 1 line thru a sheave at the top of the rod vang assembly, if I recall.
Having nothing to do with "racing" , per se, it is really a matter of making sail controls easy enough to use that your smaller size (or weaker or older) crew person feels enthused and confident in using them.
In general, controls that require a winch or both hands to haul on are less likely to get used.

We do not use our vang as often as we probably should, but that's partly due to our venue. Sailing on a river the bulk of our courses (day sailing or racing) vary between windward and downwind. Those less-common times and places where we get to set up for a reach are when the vang tackle gets adjusted and fine tuned more.
When transitioning from windward to off wind, we set the vang to get the main flatter and usually do not have to change it more than once after that. (That's when the outhaul gets slacked, as well.)

Confession #2: when we have raced in the past, headings are a lot more dependent on wind variables and use of current here, so helm tactics take a high priority, also. The wide open waters of Puget Sound, for instance, allow for fine-tuning for miles of sailing on the same tack. Wonderful!

 

[MarineCityBrian]

The layout works. I helped a local 35-2 Providence redo their deck layout this way-they were upgrading the boat to stay competitive in the Mac race (which they are 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every year!). The new layout saved weight, simplified the overall arrangement, and kept bodies out of the cockpit, which is a MUST unless you are broad reaching/running in 18+ knots. Invest in the bigger rudder-you won't believe how much faster and more controllable the boat is. Lot's of posts here on that subject. Cheers

I'll say Providence does well!
Winners of the 2014 Chicago to Mackinac, and last year only lost to the Declercq brothers, who have a very favorably rated boat (Flying Buffalo) built by their father (that they sail the stink out of). I also entrust my sails to Al each winter at the North Sails loft.
Here's someone's posting on the forum of Providence's 2014 win:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-Win-2014-Mackiac-Trophy&highlight=providence

 

[Mr. Scarlett]

If anyone can show their spinnaker downhaul and topping lift setup on a 35-2 that would be great. The sail was present when we took possession, and a few lines and blocks that may play a role in the operation, but all signs point to the spinnaker just taking up space during the previous owner's tenure.

 

[Seth]

I am no expert, but having a vang with a Lot of purchase helps guarantee that it will be used a lot and with one hand. Our vang purchase is 6 to 1, and that is pulling on a 2 to 1 line thru a sheave at the top of the rod vang assembly, if I recall.
Having nothing to do with "racing" , per se, it is really a matter of making sail controls easy enough to use that your smaller size (or weaker or older) crew person feels enthused and confident in using them.
In general, controls that require a winch or both hands to haul on are less likely to get used.

We do not use our vang as often as we probably should, but that's partly due to our venue. Sailing on a river the bulk of our courses (day sailing or racing) vary between windward and downwind. Those less-common times and places where we get to set up for a reach are when the vang tackle gets adjusted and fine tuned more.
When transitioning from windward to off wind, we set the vang to get the main flatter and usually do not have to change it more than once after that. (That's when the outhaul gets slacked, as well.)

Confession #2: when we have raced in the past, headings are a lot more dependent on wind variables and use of current here, so helm tactics take a high priority, also. The wide open waters of Puget Sound, for instance, allow for fine-tuning for miles of sailing on the same tack. Wonderful!

Fair enough. I am glad to see you have a 12:1 vang, which is really the minimum for making it an effective control. More importantly the vang is essential for optimal UPWIND performance too. Not only does it take some load off of the mainsheet and allow you to better balance leech tension/twist vs traveler position, but using sufficient vang tension for the conditions (more wind/more vang) will "push" the boom forward into the mast, which has the effect of steadying the rig so it moves around less as you go through the waves. The vang is an important tool for getting the best performance out of the boat with numerous benefits

 

[p.gazibara]

It is possible to get away with less vang purchase by using the main sheet to get tension, snug the vang and ease the main.

I did this a ton while sailing down the coast of Nicaragua. The Papagayu winds would funnel out of the mountains and gust variable from 10kts to 40+. The short steep seas it produced meant that maintaining drive was really all about controlling mainsail shape and “letting her breathe” when the wind dropped.

Being on the wind it was very easy to haul in hard on the mainsheet, tighten the vang, then ease the main off to its desired position. When the gusts let up, release vang and let the sail breathe. It was like that on and off for about 24 hrs 10-20min at a time. Exhausting sailing really, wind on the nose and against current. We were very happy to make 40nm toward our destination that day.

But ya, going to more purchase would make the whole process easier.

-P

 

[steven]

I find spinnaker rig is workable with single sheet and guy both trimmed through turning blocks about 3 feet from the stern.
I jibe the pole end to end, not by dipping.

I don't race and only fly the kite in light to medium air.

--Steve

 

[Mr. Scarlett]

I find spinnaker rig is workable with single sheet and guy both trimmed through turning blocks about 3 feet from the stern.
I jibe the pole end to end

Do you use twings on the guys near max beam? How do you have the pole rigged? It's the downhaul I'm having trouble putting together with the gear that came with the boat.
I'd prefer to dip pole while single/shorthand rather than end for end but could go either way.

 

[steven]

downhaul to a bridle - not to the end of the pole. Like a small boat not like a big one.
Downwind it doesn't much matter where the guy lead is (others may disagree).
Reaching is the issue. An inboard (aft) lead puts the guy against the shrouds and also gives no purchase angle for pulling it back.
A lead that is more outboard should help up to a point though I haven't tried it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It certainly does matter when the wind pipes up and you need to choke the chute