Ericson 41 Florida - Norway

[treilley]

Boy, she sure has pretty lines.

If you have to remove the pullpit and pushpit I would get some thickened epoxy, overdrill the holes down to the inner layer and then pot them. This will keep the boat watertight during transit and you should be potting those holes anyway to prevent future water intrusion into the core.

I know you have your hands full so a good temporary solution to cover those holes would be to use foil type duct tape.

Electric is good for coastal cruising but if you ever plan to take her offshore for any extended period of time, you want diesel. Electric propulsion will only push your boat so far until needing a recharge and you could not have enough solar or wind generators to do this in the water. I know that the batteries recharge when sailing but ask any cruiser who has crossed an ocean and they will tell you they had times when they needed to run the motor for days.

 

[sveinutne]

Thanks Tim, But I guess the lines on your boat is almost the same. It does not look to bad from behind either. I will see what we can do about potting the holes.
About electric; I like the idea of going in and out of harbor with out any smoke or noise, but you are right, with only battery you will get times you wish you had more durable power.
The hybrid is just such solution, but I think it is expensive, so we will see. I am now planning to keep the boat on dry land till next spring, so I got some time before I need to choose the new propulsion system.
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[treilley]

I never said mine wasn't pretty too

Good luck with your transport and keep us in the loop.

 

[Sven]

Svein,

I am now planning to keep the boat on dry land till next spring, so I got some time before I need to choose the new propulsion system.

That seems like a much more realistic schedule. Will you keep her in a shed during the winter so you can keep working on her ?

I agree that she is stunning. It looks like the hull polished up very nicely too.

Maybe we'll meet up in Scandinavian or Finnish waters in a couple of years.


-Sven

 

[sveinutne]

Hi Sven,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
To have an Ericson get together in southern part of Sweden could be a great idea, but please give me some years so I got something to show. I do not have a shed that is big enough to room her, so I will have to just build some cover over her, but most of the outside work, I will try to do first, and then do the inside work when it is too cold to work outside. With some500 watt electric lights inside the boat, it will be warm I think even during part of the winter.<o></o>
On your location it says California, but maybe you are planning a long vacation to Scandinavia?<o></o>

 

[Sven]

Svein,

<o></o>On your location it says California, but maybe you are planning a long vacation to Scandinavia?<o>></o>>

We go back to the summerhouse almost every summer (actually my parents' summerhouse): 16.70052207820129 E, 57.76262918632789 N. In a few years we plan to not fly-drive, but sail there, probably via Panama.

Like you, we have a lot of upgrades to do ... the Cape Horn is the next big one, followed by the standing rigging. I certainly hope we don't have to CE certify our Perkins diesel and I'm not sure why you have to certify your engine



-Sven

 

[sveinutne]

You do not have to certify the engine, if you are just visiting <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on">Europe</st1lace>. It is only when you want to register or sell the boat in <st1lace w:st="on">Europe</st1lace> it will be needed. When I import the boat, it is under “Vedlegg 3”. It is as not finished boat without engine. Then I can import it in one day, and have access to it immediately, and have 5 years to show it for certification. With engine, it will be locked up until all papers are ready, and with older <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">US</st1lace></st1:country-region> engine it will not be certified, only the very latest engine build after 2005 might have a chance. If the engine is not already CE certified it will cost about $80000 to get a new engine certified, but it is only when you want to import many engine you will pay that large sum of money for certification, not for one engine. I still have to get the boat CE certified, but it will cost like €4000.

PS. About sailing around Cap Horn. My grand father did sail around Cap Horn as a Captain on a large sail ship, but I am not sure of the date. But after that he was a member of a very fine club. At least in Norway it was when I was a child, called the "Cap Horn Club". To get membership in the club, you had to sail around Cap Horn. So today the Club is daying out.

 

[gareth harris]

Hi Sven,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
please give me some years so I got something to show.

Now that seems like a realistic timetable....*

If you have not yet finished the bottom paint, I would not add any more coats before the shippng as it may get damaged along the way. Some bottom paints should not be left dry for long periods.

I read the link you gave on the electric drive, and 7kW is about 9HP, which would be enough to get you a short distance at a low speed in a 41' boat - it may work out if you just need to motor out of the slip before you can raise the sails. Electric drive is generally only practicable on much smaller boats.

Four years ago a prototype was built in California using a hydrogen fuel cell, which created hydrogen by turning the prop when under sail, and then powered electric drive; unfortunately it cost around $60000. The owner told me they were planning on making a version to burn hydrogen in a conventional engine, which would be much cheaper, but then the project disappeared, I don't know why.


* A few weeks after your boat was damaged by hurricane Charlie, mine was damaged by hurricane Ivan, and has been out of the water ever since, so I have earned the right to be cyinical.

Gareth
Freyja E35 241 1972

 

[gareth harris]

Svein,

probably via Panama.

-Sven

Go for the Horn....

I looked into taking a boat to the UK once, and the way I understand EU laws is that if you keep the boat in the waters there for 6 months you need to register the boat in the EU, for which you need to do a double axle with pike through a flaming hoop. If someone has taken the same model to Europe before, most of the paperwork will already have been done, which makes it easier. I did not know about the specific engine regulations until now, but it sounds entirely in keeping with everything else I have read.

Gareth
Freyja E35 241 1972

 

[Sven]

Gareth,

Go for the Horn....

While we're going for the Cape Horn vane I don't think we'll go around Cape Horn to get to the Baltic. The alternative to Panama that we are considering is to head west. If we had a steel or aluminum hull I would have loved to have tried the NW Passage, but not in a FG boat.

Planning is at least half the fun


-Sven

 

[sveinutne]

Go for the Horn....

I looked into taking a boat to the UK once, and the way I understand EU laws is that if you keep the boat in the waters there for 6 months you need to register the boat in the EU, for which you need to do a double axle with pike through a flaming hoop. If someone has taken the same model to Europe before, most of the paperwork will already have been done, which makes it easier. I did not know about the specific engine regulations until now, but it sounds entirely in keeping with everything else I have read.

Gareth
Freyja E35 241 1972

Hi Gareth,
I thought so too, that if the same type of boat was registered it would go more easy, but that is only partly true. Boats are not like cars, each boat is look at as individuals, so it is the exact boat that has to be used in the European market before 1996. Then you get automatic CE approval. Else you will have to get it CE certified. I have just started on this process, so I do not know too much about it, but in some months I think I will know a lot more. I will keep you informed.

 

[gareth harris]

Hi Gareth,
I will keep you informed.

I hope you will keep your notes as other Ericson owners will likely have to go through the same thing.

 

[gareth harris]

Gareth,


The alternative to Panama that we are considering is to head west. If we had a steel or aluminum hull I would have loved to have tried the NW Passage, but not in a FG boat.

-Sven

Going the long way round would be the trip of a lifetime if you could make the opportunity. And the E39 is far better suited for the Pacific than Cape Horn of course - although it would be pretty cool to be able to say you had sailed around the Horn. If I were planning that trip, I would be thinking of the Galapagos, Polynesia, northern Australia, Papua New Guinea, Egypt, Jordan, and Grecian islands.

 

[Sven]

At the risk of hijacking Svein's thread too long ...

Going the long way round would be the trip of a lifetime if you could make the opportunity. And the E39 is far better suited for the Pacific than Cape Horn of course

It would/will be a fantastic experience, either Panama or the long way. I think just about all boats are better suited for Panama or the long way than they are for Cape Horn

although it would be pretty cool to be able to say you had sailed around the Horn.

It sure would be.

If I were planning that trip, I would be thinking of the Galapagos, Polynesia, northern Australia, Papua New Guinea, Egypt, Jordan, and Grecian islands.

Yes, many stops along the way, like the ones you mention, would be a must. We'd probably try for Capetown rather than Suez, at least that's our thinking right now.

Hmmm, I should see if I can split this off into a thread of its own to give the original back to Svein.


-Sven

 

[sveinutne]

I am still looking for a new engine and drive, but electric might be too early, so I might go for just normal diesel. One I am considering is Volvo Penta D1-30 with s-drive 130S.
I am not sure how easy it will be to put in a sail drive, and what I will loose in sail performance, but several people I have talked to say it will run more quiet without all the long V-drive shafts turning. It has 28 hp and should be able to give the boat a max speed close to 7 knots.
http://www.frenchmarine.com/ProductEnquire.aspx?PID=502
http://www.volvo.com/NR/exeres/B06D6166-598C-4F39-B037-CC3E309AEBAF.htm
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[gareth harris]

I would have expected you would want more than 28HP for that size boat. In one of my books (currently a few thousand miles away) I read a formula for figuring out how many HP you need, and it came to 23HP for the E35 (11500 lbs). One of the things to consider is that engines, along with everything else, should not be run at their maximum for extended periods in order to get the best longetivity out of them, so the power you figure you need to motor at 7 kts should be only 80% of the rated power for the engine. Also the alternator will take some power to drive.

Changing the drive sounds like an awful lot of structural work. With the engine being behind the aft bulkhead of the main cabin, it should be possible to insulate the noise to a good extent if that is a concern. The E41 sails well in light winds, so you do not need to plan on using the engine as much as in some other boats.

I have heard good things about Betamarine engines, which should have all the necessary EU ratings.

Gareth
Freyja E35 241 1972

 

[sveinutne]

Yes, maybe a D2-40 with 39hp is better for the Ericson 41.
What I had was a Perkins Westerbeke 44B FOUR with 44 hp.
At least on the new models they have CE certificates, so I should be able to put in a new engine of the same type. Even if the engine had CE marking, I was advised to take the engine out, so I could import it under “Vedlegg 3” or “Attachment 3”.
In my case the engine was ready for replacement, so it was not a big loss, but for others I would consider other alternatives then this “Vedlegg 3” way of import. The good thing about “Vedlegg 3” is that you get access to your boat immediately and can take it where you want to do work on it. In the other case, the boat is locked up in an expensive place controlled by custom, and you can not touch it before all papers are in order, and also the boat is CE certified. In my case that was not possible without access to the boat, so I had no choice.
About S-drive or sail-drive. I read someplace that it is more efficient. Less friction and things to turns, so you can reduce engine power by 10% by going from V-drive to sail-drive, but 10% down from 44hp is still about 40hp, so 28hp will be on the low side.
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My V-drive is also ready for replacement, so if I go for a new Westerbeke 44B I will also need a new V-drive. If I go for a new engine with sail-drive, it will cost less, but I will need to make a new hole in the hull, and I think the sail-drive will give more drag then the original V-drive when sailing.
<o> </o>
So I am now looking at the different options I got.
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[sveinutne]

I was a bit frustrated with this ”vedless 3”, so I called the person in charge of the CE certification. Then it was clear to me why the engine had to go. We have the same Perkins running in Norway, and it is OK, but when you import a boat into EU, it has to comply with the new regulation and meet the new high standards for noise and emission. Engines older then 2003 will often have problems with this. If I buy a new engine, the producer will have to provide this certificates, and I will have an easy time getting it certified, but for a used engine, I have to show new test proving the engine still perform better then regulations demands. So now I am looking at YANMAR 3JH4E with 38-40hp. I am also looking at the possibility to use hydraulic transmission, and then I can also put in an extra pump that is hocked up to an electric motor. I am now looking for used electric motor with controller in the 10-30KW range. Then I do not need the gearbox that is in front of the YANMAR engine, and get full rpm on the hydraulic pump. Then I will run it electric in and out of harbors, and will have backwards and forwards electric, and when I am out in the open sea and need to go forward for a long time, I start the diesel engine and let it take over. Then the electric engine can push too and get 60hp on the propeller or the electric can put in reverse so the batteries are recharge and only 20-30 hp goes to the propeller. The electric controller will give the possibility to have seamless intervals from full forward till full regenerating of batteries. But I have a long time to think about this before I start buying components for this system.

 

[Sven]

Svein,

You might want to join the hybrid propulsion thread:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=7577



-Sven

 

[sveinutne]

"Heart of Gold" is now in Trondheim Norway, and it is resting in its new crib made in Miami before this journey. The crib looks to be strong, so I feel safe on top of the boat while it is resting in its crib. It has been raining a lot in Trondheim this week, so I have found water inside the boat, and it is coming in with the rain. I will try to locate the leak spots and cover them. At the end of this week I hope the “tent” will be ready to cover the boat.
I will take some picture and post soon.