Holding Tank on E-35 II

[jmoses]

Lectra Sans

Be preparred to spend close to $1,500 - $2,000 now-a-days for a Lectra San install (actual unit, heavy battery cables, breaker, Y-valve if not already installed, etc.)

In addition, a Lectra San will not meet "No discharge" zone regs. I believe Rariton is proposing that the unit meets the no discharge regs, but as of yet, I don't think it meets that test per CA regs. Nor will a Lectra San work in fresh or brackish water. You will need to add salt to make it work correctly.

Also, they are power hungry and if at anchor for a while, it will drain the E-35 MKII's two batteries unless you run the 'ol A-4 after taking a.....well, you get the idea.

As for mixing the sink and the head, I'd stay away from that. I have visions of siphoning into the toilet when hard heeled to port, let alone the chance that oders and possibly the sewage may pump up through the sink if the seals are bad or the discharge valve is closed off (depending on the head make).

A tank install is probably the cheapest and easiest to do and meet regs.

John M.

 

[Brisdon]

I installed a bladder holding tank on my 35-2. It's 15 gallons. It is under the v birth, port side. I couldn't fit a rigid tank in there, although one could if the drawer were pulled out and a hatch cut under the matress. I have a Lavac toilet which stretches the tank capacity a lot more than most heads. The bladder tank has been in about four years and it's been trouble free, but I do inspect it regularly with a flash light to make sure it isn't on the verge of a nasty explosion of crap. The nice thing about having the tank in this position is that it is directly behind the toilet on the otherside of the bulk head. I think it's clumbsy to pump sewage all the way around to the salon. We can get through a long weekend with the 15 gallon tank, but we have to watch how many times we pump that Lavac handle. THe tank was made by Vetus and it's basically Hypalon. Don't get one made out of vinyl, they're no good.

 

[Howard Keiper]

John's remarks re the Lectra San are more-or-less correct...with some exceptions. There is no Y valve. EVERYTHING that goes into the head goes into and (eventually) through the unit. The battery / cabling are non issues in a practical sense. It's about a 10' run from my batteries to the unit and 10 ga. marine grade wire is fairly cheap and very easy to work with.
But his remarks about running the unit are well worth considering. Through the years we've had the unit we've refined a regimen that works everytime. While at anchor or anytime, anyone who cares to take a casual whizz may do so and the head gets pumped a few times to clear it. We like to avoid running the treatment until there is some electrical aid from the engine...usually we cycle fresh seawater through it on the way home, start the engine and push the START button. Assuming that only urine needs to be delt with the unit's macerator doesn't macerate anything and the electro-chemical thing only lasts about two minutes. But that two minutes will draw about 20A or so and I don't like to consume that much without being able to replentish it, hence running the engine...but at that time I'm running the engine anyway, so it's just a matter of convenience.
Let's say someone actually had to take a dump (kids seem to do this a lot) or got sick and couldn't make it to the rail for some reason. The difference is that we simply don't wait until we're underway to initiate the treatment. The battery energy is more than sufficient to go through three or four cycles. It's good to remember that NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING goes into the head that hasn't been eaten. By the time something is actually discharged it has been through at least two treatment cycles and is, supposedly, "biolgically "clean". In any case, there is no odor whatsoever... ever.
I should add that I have a switchable manual regulator with which I can pretty much control the rate at which I recharge my batteries...anytime. This has been a very nice project from start to finish. I particularly like the idea that nothing had to be compromised in the layout or build of the fwd berth or head.
hk

 

[chrism]

What is a sanitary thing to do with TP?

When on a charter last year in the Bahamas, the owner of the vessel simply said "toss it out the port"

One bad landing on the deck, and that practice was over

 

[jmoses]

Used Lectra San?

I'm not so sure I'd invest in a used Lectra San unless it was tested ala Raritan. I have seen many a busted Lectra San and there is no way to know if it's working unless tested by a factory rep or repair center (yeah it makes noise, no lights come on the control panel but is it REALLY doing it's thing?). Plus, you are buying someone else's used sh*t box? Gross.......

John M.

 

[Loren Beach]

"The job's not done until the paperwork is completed!"

This thread is heading off in a stinky direction!
I have *never* heard of someone throwing "used" TP out of an open port. On second thought, maybe after enough rum, when all forms of aberrent behevior begin to appear... maybe... :eek:

On our boat and all the others I have sailed on for several decades the paper goes in the head, along with the other "natural stuff" that goes into the head. Depending on the quality of the head pump and general condition, you sometimes have to pump it "every six sheets," as we explain to guests.


Thanks for an eye-rolling chuckle!

Loren in PDX

 

[rssailor]

A different head

Check out the Wilcox Crittenden Quiet flush head. This head is an electric head that uses fresh water to flush with. Very easy install and fresh water for flushing is the only way to go. Yeah and definetly check out Ronco for a holding tank. I have had only good experiance with them. Ryan

 

[Howard Keiper]

The literature that describes the care and feeding of your Lectra San says it's OK for TP to be flushed along with more traditional forms of human waste. Actually, we keep a number of those plastic bags you get at supermarkets on Sea Quest for any number of "throw-away" uses...oily rags, TP, and anything else that needs to be stored temporarily for disposal ashore. A note regarding oily rags... I have definately swung my thinking from rags to the blue paper Shop-Towels you can get at Costco...much more cost effective and the rolls stow more conveniently.
We took the Alaska Eagle voyage from Hawaii to Tahiti two years ago, and were way more than impressed with the way garbage was disposed of at sea....we'd never done that before so were easily impressed. But the gist was, that there were some things like uncoated paper products, cloth, table scraps, etc., that were routinely thrown overboard. Plastic in any form was collected, cleaned and stowed for later disposal

 

[u079721]

About the paperwork....

Well, to follow Loren's lead...

We found that the "paperwork" could tend to clog the Joker valve on our Ranitan PHII, and allow the bowl to fill back up. Which stopped as soon as we quite putting any paper down the bowl. But what do to with it - without tossing it overboard?

Well, after after a few years what we settled on for a cruising routine was to keep a quart sized zip loc baggie in the head under the galley sink, and all the TP for that day goes into the baggie. Every night when I put out out the trash I retrieve the TP baggie and put out a fresh one. Odor during the day does not seem to be a problem.

Putting out the trash involves transferring the day's waste from the galley bag into a heavy air and water tight PVC DRY bag, the type used for rafting. These are small enough to fit in the aft lazarette, and keep all the odors in till we reach port every week or so.

I doubt whether I would ask a casual day guest to follow this routine, but for the two of us it worked quite well.

 

[Martin King]

I'm with Steve. Having seen first hand what sanitary napkins and
TP can do to a joker valve, the rule on our boat and many others
I sailed on is nothing goes in the head that hasn't been eaten first!
Anything else is bagged up for disposal ashore. Have you ever
attempted a rebuild on a marine head while underway? I have and
let me tell you kneeling over it in the cramped confines of the compartment
while the effluent runs down your arm and the stench fills the interior
is not a pretty picture!

 

[gareth harris]

I have provided biodegradable toilet paper, which is much thinner than standard, to guests to use with my PHII pump, and have had no problems yet, although it has not been used all that much; generally my crew are too ugly to use paper for number onesies, and mostly number twosies get done at the dockhouse.

Using a plastic bag for paper is something you get used to in much of the third world, where there is not enough water pressure to flush it away; but I have been hoping to avoid it on my boat.

I guess that throwing paper overboard is no worse than pumping the tank once you are sufficiently far from shore, but as a man who loves to swim from his boat, I hate the thought of it in bays. The sight of the ocean in all of the heavy shipping areas I have been to is disgusting for many reasons.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[footrope]

Single-ply only

In my 38, which I suspect has the original head and pump (well, rebuilt a few times I guess), the PO told me that single-ply TP is the only acceptable paper. He complained of joker clogs with 2-ply. We've had no problems that way in the 18 months we've had the boat. We buy our TP from West Marine.

I'm thinking of installing a single handle sink fixture so you can start the water with your elbow when your finger has gone through the paper, tho.

Our 25 gallon (per PO claim) L-shaped holding tank is under the port dinette seat, just aft of the head. When the Coast Guard boarded us in May I was reminded we don't have a "Y" valve. Everything goes into the tank and there's a manual Whaler pump for offshore pumpouts. The PO did 3 coastal trips between Washington and San Diego.

 

[Brisdon]

Dirty TP in a go bag, I don't think so.

I have a friend that insists on putting the dirty TP in a bag and not flushing it down the head. I'm rather disgusted by that bit of tradition. Why not just wipe your ass on the table cloth at the Russian Tea Room. So what if the toilet completely exploded every couple of years, that's still better than dealing with crap rags every day of the week. We've been flushing paper down the Lavac for five years and no problem yet. My friend who puts the TP in the little bag has one of those expensive electric vacu flush toilets. Why spend all that money if it dosn't work. I have a confession, when I'm on his boat, I put the dirty paper down the head and then I garble up a few fresh sheets and toss them in his special souveneer bag. If he actually inspects the contents of this bag he's not going to admit it, so I feel pretty safe about this.

 

[Davis Modlin]

I don't know man, Going onto someone else's boat and not respecting thier wish's.

Davis
E-29
#226
Holy Guacamole

 

[u079721]

To bag or not to bag...

As I mentioned above, I would probably not request a guest to bag their TP, especially if they were not hard core cruisers.

But Brisdon, I would suggest that your attitude towards these matters would be a bit different if YOU ever had to work on the head. It's not a question of just having to rebuild the head every couple of years, but rather what happens if it clogs, or leaks back into the bowl and overflows when you are hard on the wind (don't ask....).

 

[chrism]

I think I'll call Raritan and see what they will do regarding a used lectra san. Although the idea of buying someone elses fecal matter is a little exciting, I'm buying the thing because its about half the cost used... and if Raritan will inspect it at a low cost, all the better.

cm