Installing a dedicated starter battery

[Sven]

You won't find much in the Xantrex Echo Charger manual as it is a "leftover" from the Heart Interface days and basically unchanged other than the Xantrex logo. It is completely lacking based on how it is most widely used today. it is in dire need of corrections, updated wiring diagrams and omissions about its operation completely left out.

...

Sorry for the rant!!

Rant away :nerd:

I moved the battery monitor to the negative side of the house bank in the diagram above.

Other than that I'm not sure I see anything fundamentally wrong with the diagram. I think the topology is equivalent to what you were suggesting ?

I do wonder what the charging profile will look like if the shore power is hooked up, the solar panels are cranking out power and the alternator is running too. Their three individual chargers won't know what the others are doing and I assume the result will not be good. I almost wonder if there doesn't need to be a charger that takes the outputs from the three chargers and regulates them into one charging profile.

Let me know if you want to take this off-line on a consultant basis, I certainly don't want to abuse your willingness to help.



-Sven

 

[Tom Metzger]

The Echo is a great device with a horse sh*t manual.

Maine Sail - Instead of a rant, why not share with us the errors? With only three wires coming out of the device it can't be very complicated.

A good topic for a new thread.

 

[Maine Sail]

Tom,

We're out cruising trying to catch some peace and quiet, fall sailing. If I can get a 3G connection tonight, after my wife and daughter are asleep, I will be glad to post more than just "rant" about the Echo.

Oh and the weekend has been great, only one other boat at the busiest anchorage in Casco Bay!!! Have seen about half a dozen boats out when normally we'd see 100+

 

[Tom Metzger]

MS - Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your sailing, but since my marina is shut down for the winter I didn't expect others to be out sailing or enjoying themselves.

 

[Maine Sail]

MS - Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your sailing, but since my marina is shut down for the winter I didn't expect others to be out sailing or enjoying themselves.

Not a problem tom, I am pretty much always connected, unless way off shore.. We're mostly on moorings here in Maine so no such thing as a marina shut down, until the bay gets hard..

 

[Maine Sail]

For nearly six years I have been conversing with Xantrex and asking them to make important changes to the Echo Charger manual. Quite often I have had to spend time trouble shooting a device that is working properly but because the owners manual is incorrect, poorly written, misleading and missing adequate wiring diagrams customers have had to pony up money for me to tell them their device is either fine but the XANTREX manual is wrong or wired incorrectly because the owners manual is completely lacking.

Over the last six years or so I have spoken with Xantrex multiple times documenting changes that really should occur in this manual. I have spoke with Mariana twice, she is their head of technical support, and numerous tech support folks and one enginner. I have spoken with service reps in Indiana and also Prashant one of lead tech guys up in BC.

Promises have been made and yet its now been nearly TWO years since and the horribly written manual is still unchanged.


The Basics:

1) The manual is VERY, VERY unclear that this device needs to be fed from the HOUSE bank and that ALL charge sources, solar, wind, shore or alternator MUST be attached to the house bank not the battery switch. Most competent installers know this, but DIY's rarely pick up on this.

This device should not be used with a factory wired 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch where the alternator or other source feeds back through the starter cable or connects to the "C" post of the batts switch. The Charge sources need to be re-routed to the house bank for the Echo Charger to work properly. If wired to the "C" post you can have a non-charging event for your house bank.

2) The Echo Charger does not work backwards and will not work in reverse. It is NOT a combiner. If your starting bank is wired to position #2 on the battery switch and the charge sources are feeding it first because of the battery switch position, eg: factory wiring scenario, the Echo Charger will do NOTHING other than sit there and look pretty and your house bank will never get charged when the second battery is selected.

If you are a "bank alternator" meaning you switch which bank you use and alternate them from day to day or outing to outing, the Echo Charger is NOT the device for this situation. This should be made very clear. It is only designed to "top up" the 1/2Ah to 1 Ah discharges associated with starting an engine.

3) The Echo Charger DOES NOT TURN OFF WHEN THE START BATTERY IS FULL but the manual does not make this as clear as it could. I will quote the manual here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xantrex When the input voltage is 13.0/25.5 volts DC or higher, echo-charge automatically switches ON. The LED glows a steady green.

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So far so good but the input voltage for the Echo is always measured at the HOUSE bank therefore all charge sources need to be fed to the HOUSE bank first. No charge voltage at house bank no charging out to the second bank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xantrex When the input voltage is lower than 13.0/25.5 volts, the echo-charge automatically switches OFF, and the LED blinks green.

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Again this is correct information. When the house bank voltage drops below 13.0 Volts the unit turns off. This is the only situation where it turns off.

The unit never turns off otherwise! This is not made clear and really should be. The Echo DOES NOT turn off when the start battery is full as many owners AND professional installers incorrectly assume it does. Lifeline batteries for example suggests to not trickle charge their batteries. So, if using a Lifeline AGM mixed with a wet house bank you be over charging your Lifeline's if floating your wet house bank.

13+ volts is ON, less than 13 volts is OFF. The state of charge of the start or reserve battery DOES NOT turn the device on or off UNLESS it is greater than a 10V difference and then the Echo shuts off or won't turn on at all. They need to make this clear that the Echo does not turn off when the start battery is "full"..


4) Back to the manual:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xantrex If the input voltage is above 14.4 volts (or 28.8), output will be limited to a maximum of 14.4/28.8 volts.

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This is accurate and good because who wants to feed a fully charged battery at 14.5-14.8 volts despite the "low current".. The limit of 14.4 volts is a good one UNLESS you have a GEL starting battery.. There should be a warning in the manual that mixing GEL and other battery types can cause over charging of the GEL starter.

5) Charge with ANY DC CHARGE SOURCE:

The Digital echo-charge is designed to operate with any DC charging
source to charge the starter or auxiliary battery.

Great we understand that it can do this, with any DC charge source, HOW ABOUT SOME WIRING DIAGRAMS FOR THE OTHER CHARGE SOURCES...? There is but one drawing that is the only wiring diagram in the manual. It is unlabeled and quite poor. It also does not make clear why the Echo must only charge a start or reserve battery and never be used to charge a larger deep cycled house bank.

6) "Connect black wire to battery negative." Xantrex also makes battery monitors but makes no mention and shows no diagram for how to wire the Echo to a shunt so that the current it is taking from the house battery can be calculated by the battery monitor. For an accurate battery monitor the Echo black/negative needs to be wired to the load side of the house bank shunt. A simple wiring diagram would help. I have had to fix this issue on multiple occasions.

7) "Float Condition"

When it reaches 14.4/28.8 volts, the charge current will decrease, maintaining a float condition. The starter battery will be fully charged without overcharging.

This is NOT a float. Float is a VOLTAGE not a current or "condition" The Echo Charger DOES NOT go into float mode when the start battery is full. As the start battery fills it SELF LIMITS what current it will accept. Low current is NOT a "float" even as Xantrex defines it in many of their other manuals. The device does have some voltage drop in it but it absolutely does not do a "float voltage" when the start battery is full.

All this device does is follow the terminal voltage of the house bank, limit the voltage to the start battery to 14.4V and turn on & off at 13.0V. It also drops some voltage across it but they also make no mention of that in the manual.

I have met with many owners complaining that the "float voltage" is too high.. Yes it is because there is NO FLOAT voltage until the house bank goes into float mode. It only follows the voltage of the house bank. As long as your house bank is in bulk or absorption, which it can be for many, many hours, the start battery will be seeing higher than charging "float voltages"...





So in summary:

1) The Echo does not shut off when the start battery is full. This is not made clear.

2) Charge sources like wind, solar, alternator and charger need to be fed directly to the house bank not the battery switch. This needs to be made clear and an updated wiring diagram to reflect all charge sources "ANY DC CHARGE SOURCE" is needed.

3) The Echo Charger is a ONE WAY device. Senses voltage FROM the house bank TO the starter bank. It will not work backwards. It is not a combiner. It should never be wired to charge a deep cycled bank. This needs to be stressed and made clearer. You should NOT use this device if you alternate battery banks. People have tried....

4) It does not do a float voltage unless the house bank is also in float mode.

5) In a mixed system GEL starter and AGM or Wet house bank you CAN over charge the GEL battery.

6) Drastically in need of better and more descriptive wiring diagrams. Shunt wiring for a house bank battery monitor should also be addressed.


I could not locate my emails to Mariana so this is just off the top of my head. The email to Xantrex was more in-depth..

Hope this helps put my rant into perspective.

 

[Sven]

Main Sail,

Hope this helps put my rant into perspective.

Thanks, yes. Even if my diagram is not per standard format it is intended to show exactly what you say (after I put in the battery monitor on the negative post the other day).

The only part I was not aware of is that it will overcharge an already full starter battery if the main bank is being charged for hours when the starter battery is already full. I had considered that possibility early on but assumed it was addressed somehow since that seems like a fatal flaw. I guess the only solution is to either put a manual switch in the circuit from the echo charger or to put yet another charger in after the echo charger, a charger that regulates how much of the echo charger output is passed on to the starter battery, but that would be silly as that is what I was thinking the echo charger was doing ? So much for KISS

Hope your sail was relaxing despite your forum duties hanging over you



-Sven

 

[Maine Sail]

Main Sail,



Thanks, yes. Even if my diagram is not per standard format it is intended to show exactly what you say (after I put in the battery monitor on the negative post the other day).

The only part I was not aware of is that it will overcharge an already full starter battery if the main bank is being charged for hours when the starter battery is already full. I had considered that possibility early on but assumed it was addressed somehow since that seems like a fatal flaw. I guess the only solution is to either put a manual switch in the circuit from the echo charger or to put yet another charger in after the echo charger, a charger that regulates how much of the echo charger output is passed on to the starter battery, but that would be silly as that is what I was thinking the echo charger was doing ? So much for KISS

Hope your sail was relaxing despite your forum duties hanging over you



-Sven

It won't "over charge" the start battery as the limit is 14.4V and it also has some inherent voltage drop so you will likely see less than 14.4V. 14.4v is on the limit of gassing and this is why Cruising Equipment Co. originally set 14.4V as the limit.. You may use some more water but you won't ruin your batteries. For the short times you're waiting for the house bank to go into float you'll be more than fine. The big problem is with customers and owners who expect to see a "float" of say 13.6v when the house bank is charging at 14.8V and that's not going to happen....

 

[Stu Jackson]

I guess the only solution is to either put a manual switch in the circuit from the echo charger ...So much for KISS

Sven,

My combiner manual (West Marine, 1998 - you know, the "Dark Ages" ) says: "If you desire an on/off switch to disable the combiner, put the switch in the ground wire."

I did just that because of the possibility of "overcharging" the reserve bank when extended motoring.

Yes, it adds an extra switch, just what we're trying to avoid, right? :0

I don't know if that idea works for the echo charger, 'cuz don't have one. Don't know why it shouldn't though.

Maine Sail's "rant" explanation makes a lot of sense. It truly reflects that folks need to understand what they have AND that manufacturers sometimes have a looong way to go to properly document their products. Xantrex's assumption (take over) of some products originally made by others is no excuse to not correctly improve the materials they distribute for their use. Maine Sail explained why.

Case in point: my Combiner literature has ten different wiring diagrams, all well explained in pictures and text. Conversely, what I've seen of the Xantrex Link Pro information is really disappointing, and I have recommended that folks who buy 'em need to download a Link 2000 (no longer made) manual to understand how the "logic" works.

Enjoy,

Stu

 

[Sven]

It won't "over charge" the start battery as the limit is 14.4V and it also has some inherent voltage drop so you will likely see less than 14.4V.

Much relief, thanks !

But how was your sail and where did you go, what did you see ? In Maine you must be getting close to the end of the normal season (as it would be back in Sweden, where we are not yet). Some of my friends keep sailing as the ice forms back home but once the real ice moves in you either have a bubbler or pull the boat out.



-Sven

 

[Tom Metzger]

Ah - we've come full circle

I guess the only solution is to either put a manual switch in the circuit from the echo charger or to put yet another charger in after the echo charger, a charger that regulates how much of the echo charger output is passed on to the starter battery, but that would be silly as that is what I was thinking the echo charger was doing ? So much for KISS

Which brings us full circle. :0 A switch to worry about. Why not sell the Echo charger and use the 1-2-B switch you already have to charge the start bank? The shore power charger has two outputs and the start bank you don't use so you can charge it once a week or a month when you are cruising.

A major advantage is that you can test the start bank periodically when cruising which you can't do if it is always being charged.

My personal opinion is that Echo chargers, combiners, and such are primarily intended to enrich people that sell them and/or install them. Beyond that, they are just that much more hair in the scuppers.

Remember that my opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them.

MS - You forgot to mention that the fusing is wrong and also not to code on the WD.

 

[Maine Sail]

Which brings us full circle. :0 A switch to worry about. Why not sell the Echo charger and use the 1-2-B switch you already have to charge the start bank?

Perhaps, because like many sailors & power boaters, they/he does not find the 1/2/BOTH as KISS as you do? Or he may want to add solar or wind at some point, or sails off a mooring or cruises..? People forget to connect or disconnect the banks. It happens. People also fry diodes by accident, even though you don't. While the 1/2/BOTH works for you it may not be the "ideal" KISS system for others..

The shore power charger has two outputs and the start bank you don't use so you can charge it once a week or a month when you are cruising.

Yes and if like many "shore chargers" you pay for 30A and only get 15A to the house bank if the start battery is already full as they split the charge. I have one customer who decided it was cheaper than replacing a brand new charger to install an Echo and make the charger a single output instead of dual output so his house bank could see the entire 30A. His wife used a CPAP and they could only get one night on the hook and the 30A he had counted on turned out to be 15A for the off nights when they would pull into a marina and charge. The 15A did not always cut it for the time they spent plugged in while off cruising and the 30A worked better..

A major advantage is that you can test the start bank periodically when cruising which you can't do if it is always being charged.

Huh..? Why would you want a battery to sit there at less than full, more than it needs to be, guessing at SOC, and allow it to potentially sulfate and have shorter life? I test my "reserve" battery, with accurate and expensive anylizers, as well as a random load test with my 500A carbon pile load tester. They do and tell you far more than a simple engine start or an OCV test but most boaters don't have these tools. I will also use it mid week to clean the boat and power the inverter to run the 110V vacuum. This deeply loads and cycles it on a somewhat regular basis. Between charging the laptop, running 12V DC, and running the vacuum off the inverter I can pull quite a few Ah's off it...

My personal opinion is that Echo chargers, combiners, and such are primarily intended to enrich people that sell them and/or install them.

Just like those pretty white "gourmet" alternators, on weekend warrior boats, that more often than not are unnecessary? A BOAT is an unnecessary expense. People use their boats differently and what may be KISS to you may not be KISS to someone else..

Beyond that, they are just that much more hair in the scuppers.

To the people who have switched to them they are not. You seem to assume every boater out there is on a dock and can top up the banks regularly through a shore charger. If sailing off a dock and only weekend sailing then these devices are not necessary. If however you want to go cruising or sail off anchor or mooring then they can certainly make life KISS due to the lack of never needing touch the battery switch. While there are many dock sailed boats this is very far from the reality for all sailors.. I also have a number of customers in marinas who choose not to plug their boats in and charge their banks off solar instead.

In Maine perhaps 80% of the boats I work on are mooring sailed. An ACR or Echo type device allows the owner to shut off the battery switch and STILL get both banks topped back to 100% SOC with solar or wind. With a 1/2/BOTH leaving the switch on BOTH to do this would be flat out dumb because you'd be leaving differing banks combined during non charging times. You'd also have to leave the battery switch ON when you leave the boat if you wanted to charge the batteries. There are more reasons for ACR's and Echo's than just HEF...

Remember that my opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them.

Yep, mine too cause you got both for free..

MS - You forgot to mention that the fusing is wrong and also not to code on the WD.

You're right. The manual does not make it clear that those fuses need to be within 7" of the battery, does not show the second fuse on the start battery, and no they do not meet the ABYC AIC requirements. Then again there are no fuses smaller than about 25A that do meet AIC for most larger banks so fusing is still a safer option than worrying about the slim potential for arc welding a fuse...

 

[Tom Metzger]

Perhaps, because like many sailors & power boaters, they/he does not find the 1/2/BOTH as KISS as you do? Or he may want to add solar or wind at some point, or sails off a mooring or cruises..? People forget to connect or disconnect the banks. It happens. People also fry diodes by accident, even though you don't. While the 1/2/BOTH works for you it may not be the "ideal" KISS system for others..

I didn't suggest you not wire the solar and alternator to the house bank. I don't, but it was someone else who said only his way (and yours) was correct. At the time you agreed with me that it wasn't the only way.

Yes and if like many "shore chargers" you pay for 30A and only get 15A to the house bank if the start battery is already full as they split the charge. I have one customer who decided it was cheaper than replacing a brand new charger to install an Echo and make the charger a single output instead of dual output so his house bank could see the entire 30A. His wife used a CPAP and they could only get one night on the hook and the 30A he had counted on turned out to be 15A for the off nights when they would pull into a marina and charge. The 15A did not always cut it for the time they spent plugged in while off cruising and the 30A worked better..

I hadn't realized the laws of physics had been repealed. Most chargers can put out full load into either output, and the current splits according to need. If yours can't do this then wire it the same as the other sources - to the 1-2-B switch or the house bank.

Huh..? Why would you want a battery to sit there at less than full, more than it needs to be, guessing at SOC, and allow it to potentially sulfate and have shorter life?

Letting a fully charged battery sit for a week or more is not a problem. Now you're stretching.

I test my "reserve" battery, with accurate and expensive anylizers, as well as a random load test with my 500A carbon pile load tester. They do and tell you far more than a simple engine start or an OCV test but most boaters don't have these tools.

Ah, since starting the engine is the primary requirement of the "START" battery, I would suggest that starting the engine is a pretty good test. The government doesn't pay for test equipment and tools for the rest of us so we make do with the simpler tests.

I will also use it mid week to clean the boat and power the inverter to run the 110V vacuum. This deeply loads and cycles it on a somewhat regular basis. Between charging the laptop, running 12V DC, and running the vacuum off the inverter I can pull quite a few Ah's off it...

Most of us have engine start type batteries for [surprise] starting the engine so we don't want to load it like a deep cycle battery. This is particularly true if we are sitting on a mooring in Maine and would then have to run the engine to recharge it.

People use their boats differently and what may be KISS to you may not be KISS to someone else..

No, simple is simple. Some people opt to not keep it simple, but simple is still simple. We should all buy the toys we want, but beware of the fox in the hen house.

 

[Maine Sail]

I didn't suggest you not wire the solar and alternator to the house bank. I don't, but it was someone else who said only his way (and yours) was correct. At the time you agreed with me that it wasn't the only way.

I still do agree with you that there are more than one way, and that was Stu not me who said that and put words in my mouth. However with some devices, like the Echo they need to be wired in a certain manner to operate as designed. Sven already has one so I want him to have all the data to make an informed decision as to how best wire it.

I hadn't realized the laws of physics had been repealed. Most chargers can put out full load into either output, and the current splits according to need. If yours can't do this then wire it the same as the other sources - to the 1-2-B switch or the house bank.

I'm glad you think you know how my customers charger operated? The laws of physics have nothing to do with the designers internal layout or assignment of charge. The designs of some chargers SPLIT the charging and some can apply all current to the bank that needs it. His did NOT do the latter. It was reconfigurable to work as a one bank charger which is what we did.

Ah, since starting the engine is the primary requirement of the "START" battery, I would suggest that starting the engine is a pretty good test. The government doesn't pay for test equipment and tools for the rest of us so we make do with the simpler tests.

And unless the boat has a dedicated hard wired starting only battery I don't install cheap thin plate single purpose batteries. I wouldn't do that to my customers. I treat them as a "reserve" battery, if so wired. I most often install a deep cycle battery that can serve both purposes so it can act as a reserve bank if necessary and will last longer if called on for a deep cycle duty. I will sometimes install a Dual Purpose battery but the CA difference is minimal, and the DC are so far beyond what the engine needs anyway that I give them a more robust battery instead. I usually go deep cycle on small sailboat aux engines as a reserve/start battery so my customers can do more than just start an engine on it if they need to.

I am fairly sure my Ericson 32 customer, who blew a belt this past Sunday morning, at 2:30 am while motoring, and then shorted the wrench across the starter and blew then house fuse was glad his reserve bank was a deep cycle battery as it allowed them to use it until the next day when there was time to address the blown fuse.

Most of us have engine start type batteries for [surprise] starting the engine so we don't want to load it like a deep cycle battery. This is particularly true if we are sitting on a mooring in Maine and would then have to run the engine to recharge it.

The majority of boats I work on, even before I began working on these boats have or had either dual purpose or deep cycle start/reserve banks. I agree that many boats do have "SLI" batteries but "most" is a bit of a stretch. I personally do not install "SLI" batteries as a start/reserve battery. That is what I do on a mooring not what I suggest everyone do. Our boat has a good solar array..

No, simple is simple. Some people opt to not keep it simple, but simple is still simple. We should all buy the toys we want, but beware of the fox in the hen house.

You are doing just as Stu did. You assume what is simple for you is simple for everyone and telling every one Echo and ACR's are "hair in the scupper" is fine for you but other folks would disagree.. Sadly out here in the field, doing this sort of work daily, I find that this is a misapplied assumption.

People who have echo's and ACR type relays love them and tell me that all the time. The vast majority of these are still installed by DIY's looking for a simple solution to the 1/2/BOTH without having to interact with it other than ON/OFF. They also tell me how easy it is to never worry about, when to charge this bank, or that bank, or for how long, or when to switch or when do I use BOTH, or #2 or #1 etc. etc... I am glad you assume that what is simple for you will be simple for everyone else. Again many boats do not need one especially if sailed off a dock but many other do benefit from them.

If you want to accuse me of being a fox in the hen house I'll gladly not participate in this board. I do however get a fair number of emails from Ericson owners who do seem to appreciate the info I share.

 

[Sven]

If you want to accuse me of being a fox in the hen house

I'm sure that wasn't the intent and that is certainly not how I read it.

The various inputs in the this thread have been invaluable so I hope I haven't caused anyone to get offended.



-Sven

 

[Stu Jackson]

Hi, Tom,

Maybe I am guilty as charged!

I think in this discussion that there are great merits to Maine Sail's ideas and multiple other points and advantages. I was "the Guy" responsible for the "only two ways to do it." I should have called them the "preferred two ways" to do it. Whose preference? Mine, and recommended by many others, present company included.

These consisted of two important things:

1. Moving the AO off the C post of the 1-2-B switch

2. and moving it to the house bank

This was because the potential confusion inherent in having the AO or other charging sources going through the switch, with the issues Maine Sail raised, like having to leave the switch on when you're not there if you have solar, for instance, connected to the C post.

Making the 1-2-B switch into a "use" switch seems to me to simplify issues because the switch is never being used to determine which bank gets charged, regardless of charging source.

That's all.

I'm the guilty guy. I take full responsibility for my activities.

Stu

PS - If you do these two things, then you don't even have to buy an echo charger or a combiner. Just use B on the switch. No extra $$ involved.

 

[Tom Metzger]

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You assume what is simple for you is simple for everyone...

OK - Maine Sail doesn't understand what I am saying so I better explain myself for the rest of you.


KISS – Keep It Simple, Stupid.

An example of simple: An icebox is simple. You put in ice and it keeps your beer cold until the ice melts and the water warms up. No other systems involved except a bucket to get rid of the melted ice. It can be a PITA because you have to lug cold food home at the end of the trip and back again along with ice the next time. But it is simple. If it becomes too much of a PITA a fridge conversion unit can make life a lot easier. I recommend heartily it, but it is not simple. You will need a larger battery, a larger and more complex charging system, you will lose storage space, you might add a heat source to the cabin, you will need to learn a little about refrigeration, and you will have a potential maintenance headache, not to mention spending big bucks. It is convenient, but it is not even close to being simple. And no amount of spin will make it simple. The Admiral wants it, so we give up simplicity.


The same can be said about an Echo charger or combiner. If you want to give up simplicity, go for it. It’s easy to wire in, but it is adding complexity to your system. For $121 at Defender I don’t want it.

I am fairly sure my Ericson 32 customer, who blew a belt this past Sunday morning, at 2:30 am while motoring, and then shorted the wrench across the starter and blew then house fuse was glad his reserve bank was a deep cycle battery as it allowed them to use it until the next day when there was time to address the blown fuse.

The purpose of simplicity is to allow you to maintain your boat as problems crop up. We don't all sail where there is someone to bail us out at a moment's notice. My question for MS's customer is why didn't you replace the fuse after the belt was installed? Or if there was no fuse available just jumper it?

For the record, Sven was talking about keeping his electrical installation simple. That's where I was coming from originally.

 

[Loren Beach]

This news just in..........

CSI has been investigating a case of a horse being beaten extensively and severely. They say that the poor animal appears to have been hit many times with electrical items commonly found in the 12 volt distribution and charging systems of sailboats. A crime as odd as it is shocking. Since the pasture was near the water and sailors are often seen loitering in the vicinity, they are following up leads in that direction.

One suspicion is that crimes like this are more common in the fall as the days shorten and sailors become depressed and more prone to S.A.D.

The animal was said to be beaten so many times over a two week period that it is difficult to say exactly when he died; i.e. he could have been beaten for quite a number of days after actual death. Local police, who thought they had seen every kind of crime, were upset and distressed, saying that they sometimes see this heinous crime being caused by land-bound sailors in the late fall, and that exposure to the internet seems to aggravate their dispositions.

The farmer and his family that had owned the horse for many years are still grieving over the loss of "Old Lightning"....


LB

 

[Sven]

The farmer and his family that had owned the horse for many years are still grieving over the loss of "Old Lightning"....

Quite shocking :woot:



-Sven

 

[Sven]

I don't get it.

I've re-read the thread and don't understand why Tom is criticizing Main Sail for answering my questions.

I'm very grateful for the answers and very confused. I must be missing something.



-Sven