My beat up E38

[JohnK]

Hi all,
My E38 was at her mooring in Dutch Harbor, RI when the remnants of the Noel storm came through on Nov. 3-4. Apparently my mooring dragged and my boat got hung up with a couple of others and they proceeded to hammer each other for several hours. My boat finally got hauled on Wed. and I just got back from surveying the damage.

The boat got wailed pretty good on the aft port side and transom. The rub rail is hosed and there's significant damage to the hull-deck joint as well as many deep gouges and depressions. Also, the rudder has a 'slice' clear to the shaft likely caused by being sawed on by a cable. Lastly the stern and bow pulpits are mangled and the boarding ladder is gone.

Needless to say, I'm pretty bummed but I'm trying to assess how bad off this damage is. What's are the group's thoughts? Can the hull/deck joint and other stuff be repaired "good as new"? Any insight greatly appreciated.

 

[Kevin Johnston]

Repair

Sorry to hear about your need for repairs. Your written description is alot worst sounding than your pictures showing the damage. Seeing close up pics of the hull/deck separation and evidence visable from the interior would be helpful to the group.

The good thing is all the damage was above the waterline besides the rudder, which should be repairable with some good epoxy and refairing unless the shaft was also damaged.

Are you lighting up the inside of the hull or is that a reflection in the second picture? If that is light coming through you will have to work those areas from the interior. I would say that the boat is very repairable if you are handy or you have a good boat yard.

The damage to the hull and stern above the waterline look like it could be just the layers of the gel coat but it is hard to assess from the photos. Gel coats are hard to match on a 20 plus year old hull and you may want to consider repainting the hull above the water line once the repairs are made and Sea Fever could look as good as new again.

You are really going to have to assess how deep the damage is? Can any damage be seen from the inside of the hull? Sounding the hull with a wood block where the damage is evident can be an effective gauge of the damage. Ultimately you may have to grind into the damaged area from the outside, rebuild it back up, fair it out and reinforcing the compromised areas areas from the interior.

 

[Loren Beach]

AFAIK the late model Ericsons, like yours, all have the hull and deck glassed over on the inside with heavy roving. The rub rail covers the outside where the flanges were later cut off, and is therefore cosmetic.

The damage would be repaired from the inside, mostly. Some glass repair would seem to be required on the outside aft as well. Might be time to put an LPU paint job on the repaired hull, since the UV-aged gel coat will never be truly matched.
Some skilled labor would go into deconstructing and restoring the interior furnishings in the damaged area, as well. But then that's why you pay those hefty insurance premiums...


FWIW, there is a nice late model E-34 in my area that had the whole rub rail removed and the joint finished out smooth. Then the yard LPU'ed the hull. Without the tell-tale rub rail I had to look twice to confirm that I was looking at an Ericson!
Upon reflection, I like it a lot.

All the best, and you and the boat will get through this!

Loren in PDX

 

[JohnK]

Thanks Kevin and Loren,
I don't have any better pictures than these, so far. Kevin, the white spot in the photo is a reflection from the sun. The dark spots along the hull/deck joint are holes through the inside factory joint. The pic below shows the interior at the point of damage. The arrow highlights a trim piece that is broken probably due to the tongue&groove section flexing with each hull collision. The bits on the shelf are pieces of fiberglass from the damage to the hull/deck joint.

The insurance guy is coming to look at the boat this week so I hope to know more in a few days. As Loren mentioned, to do the hull/deck joint right will require dismantiling the interior to some extent. And it looks like I'll prolly get a paint job out of the whole mess.

 

[EGregerson]

decisions, decisions

That looks pretty much like my 34 last Fall after TS Ernesto. The hull deck joint damage is the thing that caused the BoatUS man to declare it a 'total constructiive loss' altho there was rudder damage, etc. I was in shock; it didn't 'look that bad'. I had to make a decison pretty quick; whether to keep the boat; or to let it go. I thot the repairs could be made to restore the boat to original or better condition (the ericson joint is glassed; not screwed or bolted). I decided to keep it. I pulled the rudder and had it reglassed. Had a new stern rail fabricated. the marina did the glass work and awlgripped it. It looks great now; but it will never be the same. It took a year to complete repairs. If you keep it bear in mind; epoxy doesn't kick under 60 degrees. It might be next spring or summer before real repairs begins; same with the awlgrip. The insurance company paid up and cancelled. Some companies would not re insure it even with a good survey. The one i got only insures it to $20,000 since it's 20 years old, less than half it's value before the storm. By keeping it and doing as much work myself as i could, i came out with a pot to install refrigeration, an auto pilot and some other stuff. One perplexing thing is, after they settle and pay up (and cancel), you might have thousands into repairs and no insurance until a survey (after repairs are complete and launch)...just one more thing to heightened the anxiety level. The question is; come spring what do you want to be doing? Sailing? or something else? If i had it to do again, I wouldn't be as optomistic as I was. Good luck with what ever you do.

 

[JohnK]

Thanks Valinor,
I reviewed your thread and from the pics you posted and the damage to your joint appears less dramatic than mine so I guess I not too optimistic at this point. I'm going to see the boat with the BoatUS guy on Wednesday - stay tuned...

 

[EGregerson]

The Whispered Number

After the storm, the surveyor I hired (for an independent evaluation) said the number the insurance companies use is 60%. If the 'damage estimate' divided by the 'insured value' exceeds .60, they will declare it a total loss. He said this number is not locked in concrete, and there are other factors, but...the boatus adjuster's estimate was right on 60%...and they totaled it.

 

[Emerald]

It looks great now; but it will never be the same.

What is it that will never be the same? This all looks and sounds like something someone good with fiberglass can bring back to new strength and same on cosmetics. Have you found problems down the road with performance, or is it just the issues you've run into on insurance?

 

[EGregerson]

Never the same...

I think the main thing is a little gray area of doubt; that, with all the pounding in the storm, that some damage was done that was undetected; that still might be hidden; that something remains unresolved. As i get more sailing time logged (and it hasn't been tested in serious wind yet), I'm think I'll gain more confidence in her. Time will gradually prove it out. The secondary thing is physical. The whole project went forward because I believed that anything in this boat could be returned to it's original condition. This didn't turn out with the rub rail for example; The original no longer available, and I didn't care for the samples from teco and rubrail.com. The marina fabricated new rail out of mahogany and stainless; It looks great (but is not what i planned and cost twice as much). Then there are the 'stubborn' compromises; such as refusing to pay $145 for a cleat; I filed the end where it snapped off and continue to use it; I consider it a battle scar. But I'm still committed to it; the final product is very acceptable even it is has a few foibbles. It was a long process. Take a peep at the finished product:

 

[EGregerson]

addendum

My pic didn't take previously;

 

[rwthomas1]

John,
Wow, I am truly sorry! I was in the Dutch Harbor yard last weekend, just out driving around and saw your boat and the damage. I didn't get out of the car and check the transom so I wasn't sure but I prayed it wasn't. Man, that sucks. I can recommend two paint/fiberglass guys that are independent contractors and do fabulous work if your yard will allow them, cannot handle the repair, etc. Also, my E38 is in a very nice yard that could likely take care of the work if Dutch cannot.

Lastly, the next time a storm comes by like that you should contact me. I have some meager connections that could get you a better "hurricane hole" than Dutch.

Good luck with the insurance guy and if I can do anything to help just get in touch.

Sorry, RT

 

[Emerald]

[snip] Take a peep at the finished product:

She came out looking very nice. I completely understand the confidence curve. Gone through the same thing on a variety of things. Bet you'll be OK

 

[Steve]

Words can not say the grief you must feel

Very sorry about your damage, that storm was a bugger and came just about a year after the 06 storm. At least she remained a float and your not looking from a barge at a mast-head, perhaps a testament to our hardy boats.

I'm sure you love this boat and will do what it takes to ensure it's repaired. Unlike late model water-condos, they just don't make our Ericson's like this anymore. (preaching to the choir) Hopefully your adjuster recognizes the quality and allows all of that 60% or more, as previously said, you may find later interior issues. Possibly if you DIY -some of the repairs, you can keep it under $45-$50k and perhaps have some to spare. Unfortunately skilled labor rates at $80 to $90/man/hr can eat into this quickly.

Best of Success...

Steve

 

[Trucker Doug]

Somebody on the board has a spare rudder and that rubrail section can be fixed to better than new. It's a bitch but certainly that boat is not a total. Just get to it asap, and don't let anymore water sneak in through the hole. Lets all be a little more optimistic huh. You still have a great boat and now you'll have an insurance check to buy new parts n'paint.

 

[JohnK]

Thanks everyone for the kind words of encouragement. Yesterday, the BoatUS surveyor came down to inspect the boat and never gave the impression that any of the damage was "terminal" so I'm feeling better now. Now I wait for the estimates to come in and the insurance check to come...

 

[Trucker Doug]

OK, John you've left us in suspence long enough. What was the verdict?

 

[JohnK]

Still waiting...

The boat yard I've asked to give an estimate has been taking their own sweet time. I received their first estimate earlier this week which totals up to $32K for the repair of the hull/deck joint (and other fiberglass), rudder, and paint job. However they forgot to include costs to repair or replace the bow and stern pulpit and boarding ladder which are either totally mangled or completely gone! So the estimate will go up - how much I'm not sure. Does anyone know what I should expect as far as pulpit/swim ladder costs might be?

 

[Trucker Doug]

Woah! Well for 32K it sure should be pretty when you get er' back. I'm guessing that includes a full paint job. (go for navy blue, I'd love to have my boat painted but can't justify it)

 

[JohnK]

Yay! I just got a call from the BoatUS adjuster who said that they're signing off on the repair estimate and are going to send out a check on Friday so that I can have Conanicut Marine start the repairs. Yes indeed Doug, that will include a full paint job!

Here's the joke-of-the-day: Does anyone know where I can get two 40' lengths of OEM rubrail? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Interestingly, the owners of the two boats that Sea Fever got tangled up with (a Bristol 27 and a J/105) were going after my liability insurance alleging that I had not "secured my vessel" properly. The boat yard had indicated that when my boat was recovered there were no lines attached to the cleats at all. As luck would have it, someone provided a video of the storm which showed my boat with the mooring pendants properly attached to the cleats with chafe guards (and line snapped at the mooring ball connection) - Ha! In your face!

 

[Trucker Doug]

OOOuuu, Somebody gonna have a pretty boat. Congradulations.
I once saw a 38 in Norfolk with wood replacing factory rubrail with shiny stainless capping it could look good.