New Ericson 27 owner

[kimozi]

Hi Everyone, I just bought a 1975 Ericson 27. This is my first sailboat, I have never sailed before but been wanting to get into the fun of sailing. The general condition of the boat(It was recently surveyed march of last year) is good and clean except that it has no inboard engine, It has an old 10hp outboard motor though which will be useful for a time being while I learn sailing. I plan on doing some upgrades and restoration to the boat so it will be comfortable and safe for my family when we sailI on weekends.

I would like to ask you folks on what would be the first thing to do to make this boat sea worthy, comfortable, fast and easy to handle. I have plans on installing instruments, navigation, inboard engine, anchors/rails(it has no anchor), electricals and new sails. Speaking of sails, Can anyone please tell me what specific sail I should be getting(this boat will be use for coastal cruising)? I also want to install a roller furling system, I want this boat easy to sail single hand.

Any suggestions, please!

thanks

 

[Christian Williams]

Welcome and congratulations.

To my mind, a reliable outboard is the first priority. Maybe yours can be overhauled--just so it starts and runs and doesn't cause worries. I don't think you'll wind up installing an inboard. Better to buy a boat already so equipped, and outboards have their merits.

If the current sails are worn out, new sails might be the next move. Or maybe just some new running rigging (control lines) --so you have reliable sail control.

Nav, electrics, cushions and so on--you'll have a much better feeling for the priorities after the first season sailing.

Members are here to help and the E27 is a beloved boat.

 

[bigd14]

Congratulations on the purchase!

Yes on a reliable engine. Did the boat originally have an inboard that has been removed? Is the outboard in a stern cutout or on a bracket? If it's in a stern cutout that is good and you should not need to get an inboard. You can either get the current outboard motor fixed up to your satisfaction or better yet, get a Yamaha 9.9 XL shaft Hi Thrust outboard. You want the Hi Thrust version with the lower gearing and the big prop. These are popular with fisherman as kicker motors so you may be able to find a used one. You can plumb an internal fuel tank if you like and tilt it out of the water when sailing.

Whatever the condition of the sails or if you get new, make sure your reefing gear is set up and functions well.

Consider a tiller pilot for singlehanding.

Most of all have fun, and I agree with Christian, sail it for a few months to see what you can live with before you decide on any significant upgrades.

Edit: check thru-hulls, seacocks and hoses. Stuff that can sink the boat! All the info you need here: https://marinehowto.com/category/plumbing/

 

[1911tex]

The first thing is hire a good sailing instructor to give you one beginner hands-on sailing lesson. That way, his/her initial observations and your questions will be evident on what needed to be done...halyards, standing rigging, safety equipment, sails, etc.,etc.. That will give you a good intro on what to look forward to and what is needed from the get-go. Surprising what a short 1-2 hour sailing lesson will bring to the surface (no pun intended). Also you will no longer have to justify "I have never sailed before". Don't forget to take a notepad/pencil along. Cheap experience and education. Just a thought.

 

[Gary Holford]

Ditto to everything mentioned thus far. At some point I'd look at getting a bimini to increase the comfort level. They aren't cheap but there are ways of doing it on a budget. I live in sunny Canada and can't imagine not having one.

 

[kimozi]

THank you guys for all the inputs, Its already giving me so much hope and excitement. The boat I have does not have an outboard cutout and the fuel tank is just on the cockpit laying around, the motor cannot even be pull-up so it stay out of water when not in use. The former owner does not know how to sail either hence the boat did not come with anything new. But its ok, Id rather want to do the upgrade myself so I know what the capability of my boat has.

Just out curiosity, how much does an inboard engine cost for this boat? Been looking around but manufacturers website do not display the price. also how much HP do we need(min/max)?

 

[JLapp]

The E27 we just purchased had the outboard conversion, but they left the old Atomic 4 (gas) fuel tank in and plumbed it to the outboard. So now the challenge is not range, but keeping the gas fresh!

 

[1911tex]

Just a thought here on old gasoline fuel tanks used for discarded gasoline inboard engines. Nothing as dangerous as fumes from a tiny leak in a gasoline tank or the smell of old stale gasoline. If it were mine, I would remove that old inboard gasoline tank and use the space for storage. If using an outboard, stick to an outboard factory type portable gas tanks stored properly. Easy to take to an auto gas station to refill. Way back when, I saw a boat go up in flames due to a very minor gasoline leak sparked by who knows what.

Kimozi: For your beautiful new to you boat, you can buy several expensive new 4 cycle deluxe outboard engines for the cost of an inboard installed and working properly, and still have enough money left over for new sails and whatever else you need to make your family safe/comfortable and have money left in the bank.

 

[Christian Williams]

Add an inboard? What shall we guess, 10-15K?

You just need a proper outboard transom mount. There are many styles--folding, retracting, fixed. The ergonomics are important, and so is the size of the outboard, whether it is electric start, correct size portable gas tank, and so on.

I see you're in LA (please fill out your forum signature line). You might stop by Seamark on Lincoln Blvd in Venice and show them photos and see what they have to say, or where they direct you for matching engine, bracket and transom.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Kimozi,

Congratulations on your first sailboat and welcome to the website. Lots of good suggestions above but I'm surprised no one has mentioned (number one) get an anchor before you go sailing! Do you have photos of the engine compartment?

 

[bigd14]

Plenty of used 2 cyl diesel engines on ebay for less that could be made reliable but if no inboard was originally installed then you will also need to install a strut, shaft log, prop shaft, shaft seal, modify engine beds, all the plumbing and wiring etc. Time and $$$$! An outboard solves most of those problems but if it’s on a bracket you will want remote shifting and throttle that can be operated from the cockpit. Another option is to cut out the transom which I and others have done but then you are getting into a lot of fiberglass and paint work. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/e27-outboard-cutout-option.15454/#post-111634

 

[Christian Williams]

also need to install a strut, shaft log, prop shaft, shaft seal, modify engine beds, all the plumbing and wiring etc. Time and $$$$!

Plumbing and wiring to include the custom diesel/gas tank, hoses and deck and transom fittings and the batteries and cables and the cockpit instrument panel, shift and throttle.

 

[kimozi]

@MarkF: Its good that you notice this, Im actually waiting for someone who can suggest what type of anchor, weight, length of the chain and rode, & anchor rail? Also, I notice that in the bow, there is no hole for where the chain goes in? Is that normal? I dont have a photo of the engine bay but it has prop shaft in there. Im thinking of just converting it into a water tank? if so, Can I take out the prop shaft and seal whatever needs to be saled in there, Is this possible?


@bigd14: The transom has no cutout, Are you from Los Angeles? Do you have any shop recommendation who can make a cutout? I also found this Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-...529472&hash=item2889b44451:g:KIQAAOSwXSZd3u5E But not sure if it will fit in the engine bay.

@Christian Williams: I just realized that you're the owner of Thelonious, I've watched and enjoyed your video crossing the pacific and back, Very inspiring and informative!

Forgive me from all my ignorance guys, Like I said, This is the first time I own a boat.

 

[bigd14]

I am not from LA so can't recommend a glass shop, but I think it would be pretty expensive. Its not expensive if you learn to fiberglass, but it is time consuming and there is some trial and error involved with fiberglassing. It sounds like there was an inboard at one time, so theoretically you could put a new or used diesel in there, but still lots of expensive bits to make it all work properly. Outboard on a bracket would be the least cost option.

Here is a link to all the work I did to convert from an old blown out A4 gas inboard to an outboard in a cutout, including sealing off the shaft log and removing the strut. http://plasticclassicforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4431

I believe if I were doing it over, I would have just learned to be a motor guy and rebuilt the A4 gas inboard. The outboard is great, but you lose some handling ability with the prop behind the rudder. In your case its a blank slate you just have to choose how much time and $$ you want to spend on it. As mentioned earlier its probably best to get the existing outboard running reliably and go sailing then see what approach suits you best. Do you typically motor out a short distance and sail? Spend long hours motoring? Resale value important (you won't make your money back adding a diesel)? Answering these kind of questions will help inform your choice. Boat projects take 3x longer and cost 3x as much as planned because it is all connected... Keep the questions coming, this road is well travelled!

 

[kimozi]

Wow BigD, That was beautiful work you did on your boat, Great Job!

I just got a price qoute from NorthSail , He suggested to get a genoa of 135% together with the main sail. What do you guys think? can anyne comment on this please.

 

[1911tex]

Someone else will need to chime in on value....but I would make sure whatever price is negotiated, that the quote includes installation of everything and demonstration of raising, lowering, reefing, flaking, etc. for your benefit.

 

[hanareddy]

Hi Kimozi! Congratulations on getting into sailing. I just purchased a 1973 E29 and am working on the upgrades. You came to the right forum because there is a ton of expertise here. As for me, I will share what I have been advised to do:

Safety before beauty! Aside from your decision to upgrade or maintain the current outboard...

• If it once had an inboard, are there any remnants such as muffler, blower hose, hose to seacock, battery wires. What did the previous owner do to the seacock connected to the engine for cooling it? Clean all these things up.
• I'd stick with your outboard. 10 horsepower seems to be the norm (9.9), but you could spend 3K+ on a new one and go with a 15. Don't overpower! And I was joking really; save your money and just get the one you have better positioned and running smoothly.
• take a look at the wiring. It may be as old as the boat and if so is not up to ABYC standards (read fire hazard!), so consider an upgrade. on my E29, access to the wiring is through the lazarette. Crawl in there and take a look, if that is your setup.
• check all the rigging and the sails. Do your lines need cleaning or replacement? If any have shredded covers, you can sew a new line onto the old and pull it through (halyards, specifically).
• If any of the hardware needs repair, take a photo, remove it, and see if you can get a used replacement. Take a look at the winches and disassemble and clean up and rebed. The photos will help with reassembly.
• Navigation lights. Are they LED? Do they work? Does their housing leak?
• Thru-hulls, seacocks and their valves. Do you have old gate valves? Do they open and close smoothly? Do you even know if they are open or closed? Check and close them before you go home. Buy a pack of wooden plugs in a variety of sizes for piece of mind. Are the thru-hulls corroded? This can all be assessed now in preparation for when your boat is pulled out of the water.
• Head and holding tank - Do you have one? Figure out how it works and identify your intake and discharge seacocks. Figure out your plumbing system for less stress. How does the waste discharge? A pump out and a manual bilge? Check into this, so you know.
• Remove the teak panels in the cabin and check for leaks. Then, happy leak hunting!
• Does it have an automatic bilge pump with a switch? That is a cheap and easy upgrade. If not, do you know where the manual bilge pump is located? Do you have the handle for it?
• Icebox drainage. Does it drain?
• Do you have any wasps nesting anywhere? My boat was a breeding ground until I knocked all their nests out. Or buy traps. Whatever works.
• Upholstery. It likely will take 4 to 6 weeks and this shutdown may be a factor in fabric availability. So, line that up while you are doing the dirty repair work. People who work on RVs and autos can do a fine job. $$$$ if you are buying new foam and fabric. I am spending ~$4,500 (about 1,000 for foam, 2K for labor, and 1500 for fabric). Mine was garbage when I got the boat.
• teak. Yours appears to look ok. You need to varnish or oil it annually. So, don't neglect it, because once it peels or gets too weathered, it's a pia.
• navigation electronics...VHF, GPS, radar, chart plotter (it might never end!). What instruments do you currently have and do they really need an upgrade? Back to new electrical (see above).
• Boater Safety course! Really, right away. It is required here in Maryland and there is a free online course for it (I forget the source - Boat US maybe)
• Sailing lessons. You will learn SO MUCH about sailing if you start on a small one-design. Then take a lesson on a cruiser.
• Batteries - do you have two? I don't know about the E27. If you do, are they labeled 1 and 2? Figure this out.

Have fun! It's a fabulous distraction from reality and should bring peace to your heart. No need to stress, you ballast will keep you upright ;-)

Nancy

 

[Loren Beach]

Agree with pretty everything on Nancy's list. I would also check/confirm the "basics" on the Vessel Safety Check list, and get the short inspection and the annual sticker. This is stuff that some boaters take for granted, but it really serves as a foundation for preparation to leave the dock and (hopefully) return.

http://wow.uscgaux.info/Uploads_wowII/V-DEPT/Virtual_Safety_Check_Form.pdf

Some items seem too simple to worry about, but our local inspector tells me that lots of boats cannot even 'pass' for the most basic of items, like enough PFD's and fire extinguishers.

I like to get this done every spring, both to get us into a mind set for an active summer on the water, and to slightly reduce our chances of being boarded by the River Patrol or USCG for an impromptu inspection. (They prefer to spend their limited patrol hours and $ on boats where the occupants are obviously unsafe & need help...)

Speaking of a "fabulous distraction" Good friend of mine used to race and cruise an Ericson 27, and he had a rather stressful job....
Boat's name was....
"Reality Check" !!