Replacing Fixed Windows Research [Master Thread]

[LeifThor]

It can be a tough decision, reseat or buy new portlights. If I could afford it, I’d probably go with Bomar who are recommended by many on this site. But at $300 a pop, and after spending $3,800 on a haul out for leak repairs and a couple new throughhulls and valves, the piggy bank was broke for now, so in an ongoing attempt to find and seal every leak on my 1972 E 35-2, I decided it was time to take on the windows.

I’ve learned after many mistakes with boat repairs, it’s always better to start and finish one instead of pulling all only to find issues. Better to use the first as a means to find the best solutions and then the others should go more easily.

Took about 30 min to remove the port light, and then had to decide to just reseat the gasket between port light and hull, or pull the whole thing apart and reseat the whole thing.

The problem was when I took the unit off the boat, the material that was used as the gasket before, was a tar like substance somewhere between tar and caulking, and without a doubt was the worst material I’ve ever had to work with. Still wet it got everywhere. Anything that touched it required Acetone to remove it. And I was pretty sure they used the same tar-like material in between the glass and the frame. I have never in my life worked so hard to remove the material in an object 6“ x 14”. I tried acetone, I tried digging it out with a screwdriver or a paint scraper. Then I moved on to trying to take it out with paint remover. The paint remover did remove the paint on the outside of the frame, but only turned the tar like substance more gooey making it even worse to try and remove.

After spending two full days trying to get these frames clear of this material, I had a moment of clarity. Sitting there exhausted looking at this frame with the material inside no matter what I did it just wouldn’t quite come out, I just kept saying to myself tar, the last idiot who put anything on these windows used tar to seal them. Tar, just like tar at the beach that gets stuck on your foot. And then it hit me!

Sand! Sand would be the one thing that could remove this impossible material. This tar-like material, it’s biggest problem was that it stuck to everything. So if I just shoved it in a bucket of sand and kept rubbing it eventually it would stick to enough sand that it would clean it.

I went and got a bucket of sand from the beach, and was totally stoked to discover not only could it clean the tar out, but it actually worked really well at buffing and cleaning the aluminum!

It turned 40 hours of work on one window, into 10 for all future windows with this terrible material in it. I only have pictures after using the sand but if I do another windows soon I’ll upload the before and after pictures so you get an idea of how terrible these port lights were.

I used butyl tape to reseal the port light, and I used butyl tape as the gasket between the unit and the hull. I won’t do any more windows until after a really good rain or testing it with a hose on it to make sure this is a good seal solution.

Anyone who has used butyl tape will tell you, it’s great stuff to work with it’s like silly putty. And it holds a seal really well over a long period of time. And if you need to change the unit or remove it comes right off.

So if your having a hard time with the project, Sometimes it works to really think outside of the box. Any sailor I’ve mentioned my sand solution to, has just looked at me with a raised eyebrow and said wow that’s a really good solution. It’s also more environmentally conscious, or at least I think so. Please tell me if I’m wrong on that.

I hope this post helps anyone who is considering repairing instead of replacing your port lights.

 

[LeifThor]

Here’s a couple shots of before removal and after

 

[hanareddy]

Thank you so much! I have a 1973 E29 and plan to repair the port side window in my vberth this week. I came on here to find advice and your lessons learned are hopefully going to help me lessen my own pain.

 

[Tin Kicker]

The use of beach sand is brilliant. As with any other abrasive though, it will damage the anodize on the aluminum, leaving it susceptible to corrosion. I used Alumiprep and Alodine to touch up the metal, then powder coated the frames. Since you are just doing the one, obviously you won't want to powder coat but protecting the metal is still a good idea. Butyl is the way to go for sealing and you won't find clear silicone ANYWHERE near my boat, especially the windows.

 

[Christian Williams]

You can paint the interior covers with any old spray paint. They don't get banged around.

The exterior aluminum can be successfully painted, too, although prep, prime and coating have to meet higher standards.

 

[toddster]

Looks like an Ericson-rich environment

 

[Tin Kicker]

The reason I said you may not want to powder coat is that having different looks to the two big windows would really stand out.

I'm just a bit surprised that only one is leaking. It seems there are more than one by the time we notice. But then re-sealing windows is not something you do for the heck of it.

 

[David Grimm]

So I pulled out the bathroom fixed port on my Ericson 38-200 due to a bad leak. The entire piece of teak plywood was basically splinter and sponge. The ports were sealed in with what appeared to be Life Calk. Very hard to get out. Now I know that the rancid smell wasn't the head but the smell of Life Calk. This stuff stinks! Purchased new 3/16 vinyl trim and cleaned up the frames. Appears that the Doc. Tollys used in the past really eats at the aluminum. Also got exact match 1/4 inch teak plywood from Buckwoodcraft.com. Now down to putting the glass in the frames. Should I use silicone grease? Or some black Life Calk? Catalina suggested straight up silicone but after removing old silicone residue I just couldn't see going that direction. Any suggestions?

 

[Tin Kicker]

This window had been sealed with silicone:

To illustrate how badly silicone will leak I laid them on newspaper and put just a small amount of water on top. This took almost no time at all.

Rather than trying to get the OEM black rubber I bedded the replacement panes with butyl and they've stayed dry as a bone.

 

[footrope]

I have re-bedded one fixed port. Three more to go. I found a bead of clear silicone sealer on the outside edge of the pane that basically was doing nothing - it pealed off without breaking. The original frame bedding was thin foam tape! I cleaned and re-used the surprisingly supple black vinyl(?) insert that cushions the glass pane and used a fillet of black 3M 4200 on the outside, rather than silicone. I bedded the port frame with white 4200. I have used Life Caulk to re-bed frames in the past and it works fine. If it is thick, used as a filler, it will take a long time to cure. It does smell funky for sure.

On the next three I am going to try leaving the frame together and not remove the glass at all. That depends on whether the inspection shows similar frame and vinyl conditions as the first one. I will use the black 4200 again to fillet the outside of the frame. Good luck with your fixed port projects. They can be pretty tough.

 

[Christian Williams]

For the files, here is how Ericson bedded the fixed ports to the cabin house. Looks like 4200 or Life-Calk or similar. Butyl tape can also be used for port bedding, but caulk fills the gaps.


Click to enlarge

 

[David Grimm]

I ended up putting it together with just the new vinyl strip. I put some water on it and left it for an hour. No leaks. Once you have the vinyl and the know how its really just a days work. No need to let it leak till it rots the wood. Now the frames will need some paint or an annual polish being that the anodized finish is gone.

 

[David Grimm]

For the files, here is how Ericson bedded the fixed ports to the cabin house. Looks like 4200 or Life-Calk or similar. Butyl tape can also be used for port bedding, but caulk fills the gaps.

View attachment 33326
Click to enlarge

If it smells like a septic tank then its life calk. I purchased a tube of 3M 4000. I have a tube of life calk as well. Any preference?

 

[Christian Williams]

The manufacturers all have a bewildering surplus of data and application suggestions leading me to conclude "anything but5200."

My only confident recommendation is for painter's tape around the exterior flange, so you can pull the ooze off easily.

 

[footrope]

I can't think of anything to use 5200 for, even below the waterline on "permanent" installations. I used white 3M 4200 to fillet seal in a couple places that are exposed to sun. It yellows pretty quickly. The 4000UV (white only?) is becoming my favorite, both for exposed beads and bedding because it doesn't yellow. I am going to try the 4000UV to seal a hatch lens. This winter I applied a thick bead to a scrap of 1/2" lens from my replacement job a few years back. It has not reacted with the plastic and sticks very well to the sawed edge.

 

[bigd14]

I spent a lot of money and time trying to find the right rubber channel that beds the glass into the window frame. Unfortunately after two tries I gave up (weird size of glass in the frame). I researched commercial window sealants, the kind used to bed glass windows into aluminum frames on office buildings and skyscrapers and are supposed to last for decades. Dow 795 sealant kept coming up. Despite it being a modified silicone, it has worked perfectly for three rainy winters with no signs of degrading or discoloring. I think Hunter uses it as a glazing compound as well. Of course if I do get a leak it will be hell removing it...

I used Maine Sail's butyl for bedding the portlights to the boat and not a single leak.

I have some leaks from the seahood fasteners and need to rebed it this summer. There is a thick bead of caulk around the seam which is probably original, but is still fairly shiny, if a bit mold stained. It looks and feels similar to the Dow 795 I just used on the portlights but I am not sure what the factory actually used. Is there any reason NOT to use Dow 795 here?

Thanks

 

[Christian Williams]

My take is that, within limits, it all works. Sometimes what you've got on hand gets the job done and you can't have everything on hand.

I used Dow 795 to rebed new plastic lenses into main hatch frames, Sikaflex 291 LOT for aluminum rub rail replacement, Life-Calk or similar for bedding hatch frames to fiberglass, and Maine-Sail "brand" butyl tape for deck fittings (which is what he recommends it for).

I don't use butyl for big hatches or portlights because it doesn't fill gaps, likes being tightened over time, and can ooze for days, and because the modern caulks are so highly specialized and effective.

We just need to match design properties, adhesion intention, UV protection to the jobs and for me that has meant a lot of reading, and forgetting what I've read. Tar also works, but it gets on yer pants.

 

[David Grimm]

The 3M 4000 and the new vinyl glass trim installed bare workes like a charm. The rain came down in buckets yesterday while motoring to the marina and not one leak! Success! Thank you all!

 

[frick]

Had a friend who took his port lights to a local auto glass shop and paid to have them put in new gaskets and glass. Looked really great.

 

[Tin Kicker]

Had a friend who took his port lights to a local auto glass shop and paid to have them put in new gaskets and glass. Looked really great.

I priced that and don't remember the number exactly but it was in the hundreds of dollars. Did it myself and other than the strip/anodize/powder coat for iirc $280-ish, all materials for all four were under $100.

btw - My go to is now 795 for sealant and the range of elasticity has been impressive.