taller is better within reason
Get it at least above the pushpit. Beyond that taller is better within reason.
Guy
Get it at least above the pushpit. Beyond that taller is better within reason.
Guy
Cape Horn had a booth at Pacific sail expo, and I talked with Yves. Looks like a clean well designed product, although I have a monitor on my 35-2, and it is great. I chose it 2005 as per Phil MacFarland's recommendation. When they calculated the hardware for mine, they set it a little bit higher, which you can see in the photos on the manufacturers site. If you go to the site for Monitor windvane, and look under the Ericson 35 pictures, you can see both installations. The thing I like about the Monitor, besides the fact that so many people recommend it, is that it can be switched from the wheel to the emergency tiller in a matter of minutes, if there is a failure in the steering mechanism. I have a set of blocks permanently in place to direct the lines to the tiller in such an emergency, so I won't have to white knuckle it through a bunch of parts bins at a bad moment.
Sven
Seglare
Hi Zoran,
We should be ordering one in August. How are you coming along with your plans ?
-Sven
We should be ordering one in August. How are you coming along with your plans ?
-Sven
Norvane
Sven,
Do you know about these folks? They are in your neck of the woods in Carlsbad CA.
At apx $2,500, might be worth checking them out? Go by heir factory?
I don't know a thing about them, have seen one on a boat up here in NorCal, the Capitan likes it a lot. Who knows?
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Ltr,
Jay
E38-200
SF Bay
Sven,
Do you know about these folks? They are in your neck of the woods in Carlsbad CA.
At apx $2,500, might be worth checking them out? Go by heir factory?
I don't know a thing about them, have seen one on a boat up here in NorCal, the Capitan likes it a lot. Who knows?
<CENTER><TABLE class=navlevel1 border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=740><!--DWLayoutTable--><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#000000 height=80 vAlign=top width=1>
</TD><TD bgColor=#000000 vAlign=top width=1>
</TD><TD bgColor=#000000 vAlign=top align=left>
Special Features »
Investment Casting »
Line Set-up »
Photo Album »
Reviews & Links »
Questionaire »
Testimonials »
</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#ffffff vAlign=top colSpan=3 align=left>
It was on my first transatlantic crossing in 1978 that I came to realize how difficult it is to sail such long distances without...Continue »
</TD><TD bgColor=#000000 vAlign=top align=left>
The NORVANE works on a servo-pendulum system, which is generally accepted as being the most efficient...Continue »
</TD><TD bgColor=#000000 vAlign=top align=left>
The vane did another great job on our last leg which was rather gusty. I must say that the unit works great, we couldn’t be happier with its performance... Continue »</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD bgColor=#000000 vAlign=top align=left>
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Ltr,
Jay
E38-200
SF Bay
Sven
Seglare
Hi Jay,
I've seen it on line but never in person. Looks interesting.
The thing about the Cape Horn that I really like is its utter simplicity and clean installation. From what I can tell, it performs really well too.
Thanks for the pointer, I'll take another look at it.
-Sven
I've seen it on line but never in person. Looks interesting.
The thing about the Cape Horn that I really like is its utter simplicity and clean installation. From what I can tell, it performs really well too.
Thanks for the pointer, I'll take another look at it.
-Sven
I hear yuh
I agree with you, I really like the Cape horn. But it seems everything in this game is so darned expensive that when I see something that is reasonably priced I take a second look and I like what I see with this unit.
Of course, that being said...the Cape Horn is a proven unit, is the Norvane? If I were you, living that close to the factory, I would go and check them out though, who knows, you might like what you see. At worst you'll have had a fun field trip.
LTR
Jay
E 38-200
SF Bay
I agree with you, I really like the Cape horn. But it seems everything in this game is so darned expensive that when I see something that is reasonably priced I take a second look and I like what I see with this unit.
Of course, that being said...the Cape Horn is a proven unit, is the Norvane? If I were you, living that close to the factory, I would go and check them out though, who knows, you might like what you see. At worst you'll have had a fun field trip.
LTR
Jay
E 38-200
SF Bay
Norvane
The unit works very well on my 29 even DDW. I've sailed many, many miles with the unit DDW with either double head sail, spinnaker or prevented main and poled jib. I do not worry about accidental jibes, hasn't been a problem..
One of the tricks on any vane is low friction. I engage the vane whenever the apparent is at least seven knots, not all vanes are capable of this.
I have a raymarine 4000 tillerpilot for lighter winds and motoring.
DDW in large swell the boat does fishtail, but this is not because of the vane. I just returned from Mexico (again) and Foss is making me a new extended rudder, that I'm hoping to gain a little more controll downwind.
I will let everybody know how the rudder works for me. I will be heading south again this year on to Ecuador, and then west.
My Ericson has proved to be a great sea boat in just about every way.
ps..I have no affiliation with norvane, but I will be calling them to order spare bearing for my next cruise, but so-far zero maintenance.
Eric S.
S/V Nanu
Half moon Bay Ca
E29 #194
The unit works very well on my 29 even DDW. I've sailed many, many miles with the unit DDW with either double head sail, spinnaker or prevented main and poled jib. I do not worry about accidental jibes, hasn't been a problem..
One of the tricks on any vane is low friction. I engage the vane whenever the apparent is at least seven knots, not all vanes are capable of this.
I have a raymarine 4000 tillerpilot for lighter winds and motoring.
DDW in large swell the boat does fishtail, but this is not because of the vane. I just returned from Mexico (again) and Foss is making me a new extended rudder, that I'm hoping to gain a little more controll downwind.
I will let everybody know how the rudder works for me. I will be heading south again this year on to Ecuador, and then west.
My Ericson has proved to be a great sea boat in just about every way.
ps..I have no affiliation with norvane, but I will be calling them to order spare bearing for my next cruise, but so-far zero maintenance.
Eric S.
S/V Nanu
Half moon Bay Ca
E29 #194
Sven
Seglare
Hi Zoran,
Did you take the plunge yet ?
Rigging, instrumentation, and other have-to's has delayed our Cape Horn acquisition and I even had second thoughts when I realized how much space we would lose by having the tube and quadrant in the aft lazarette.
I went back and looked at the Sailomat but it now looks like an erector set gone wild. I really preferred the old Sailomat look so now we're back to the Cape Horn. I just have to come up with a way to partition the aft lazarette so the tube and quadrant stay safely protected while still getting back some of that precious space.
-Sven
Did you take the plunge yet ?
Rigging, instrumentation, and other have-to's has delayed our Cape Horn acquisition and I even had second thoughts when I realized how much space we would lose by having the tube and quadrant in the aft lazarette.
I went back and looked at the Sailomat but it now looks like an erector set gone wild. I really preferred the old Sailomat look so now we're back to the Cape Horn. I just have to come up with a way to partition the aft lazarette so the tube and quadrant stay safely protected while still getting back some of that precious space.
-Sven
Hey Sven,
Saw this on the SF Bay Area Craigslist; http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/1470187647.html
Thought you might be interested.
Saw this on the SF Bay Area Craigslist; http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/1470187647.html
Thought you might be interested.
_________________
Hi Sven,
I am puzzled with your reference to the attachment scheme of the revised SailoMat vane. I just looked at their site and the central attachment has been re-engineered but is still a single plate with four bolts. This is (still) in marked contrast to the Monitor with it's "jungle gym" of ss tubing -- admittedly one advantage to the Monitor is that you can easily rig a boarding ladder on that ss tubing frame, though!
Biggest change apparent in the newer SailoMat is that they figured a way to go from castings to formed aluminum. Perhaps that lowered the production cost. (?)
Anyhow, you will not go wrong with any of these mainstream vanes since they all steer with the same basic design physics, AFAIK.
If I had more open water around me I would fit a vane, since I single hand a lot.
Cheers,
Loren
Attachments
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pendulum.jpg
Sven
Seglare
Hi Loren,
I bet that there are 30 separate parts in that picture you posted, not counting screws, washers, nuts and any pins. The casting at least looked a lot cleaner and better designed.
Maybe I've just gotten spoiled by the truly elegant design of the Cape Horn ?
Either way, as you say, as long as nothing is bent or broken they should be fairly similar in function.
-Sven
I bet that there are 30 separate parts in that picture you posted, not counting screws, washers, nuts and any pins. The casting at least looked a lot cleaner and better designed.
Maybe I've just gotten spoiled by the truly elegant design of the Cape Horn ?
Either way, as you say, as long as nothing is bent or broken they should be fairly similar in function.
-Sven
Here's what the 2014-model Sailomat 800 looks like.
A full video explanation of the unit in action offshore is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gEJ3RJYiYc
A blog entry detailing installation on an Ericson 32-3 is here:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?192-Sailomat-800-Installation-(2014)
A full video explanation of the unit in action offshore is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gEJ3RJYiYc
A blog entry detailing installation on an Ericson 32-3 is here:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?192-Sailomat-800-Installation-(2014)
Attachments
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Sailomat on stern Ericson 32-3.jpg
Last edited:
Stu Jackson
C34IA Secretary
Don't know if you're aware of these guys:
http://www.selfsteer.com/
Plus
http://www.hydrovane.com/
Both from the Latitude 38 advertisers link on their website.
Good luck.
http://www.selfsteer.com/
Plus
http://www.hydrovane.com/
Both from the Latitude 38 advertisers link on their website.
Good luck.
selfsteer.com is Scanmar maker of the Monitor and....
Scanmar has a variety of other wind vane makes that hey have bought out over the years. Some work well on some boats.
I have yet to be on a boat with a hydrovane that works. I am up to 4 boats now, none of them have worked, all have been installed via the correct procedures. None of them have been installed by me however.. Hydrovane has a lot of testimonials on their site, so some people seem to have them steering, just not the four boats that I have been on..
Anyone have one that actually works? Would love to go for a ride...
Guy
Scanmar has a variety of other wind vane makes that hey have bought out over the years. Some work well on some boats.
I have yet to be on a boat with a hydrovane that works. I am up to 4 boats now, none of them have worked, all have been installed via the correct procedures. None of them have been installed by me however.. Hydrovane has a lot of testimonials on their site, so some people seem to have them steering, just not the four boats that I have been on..
Anyone have one that actually works? Would love to go for a ride...
Guy
Last edited:
Stu Jackson
C34IA Secretary
Guy, would you share with us what those four boats were?
Hydrovane, Sailomat, Cape Horn, and Monitor
There is a couple currently cruising in Fiji (after a few seasons in French Polynesia) who have a hydrovane on their E38-200 http://sailingwithmarkandvicki.blogspot.com/. I was in contact with them when I was looking for a windvane for our 38-200 and partly based on their feedback we ended up installing a Monitor wind vane http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/index.php
We are preparing for offshore passage and extended cruising in remote areas so our priorities (in descending order) are function, durability, availability of spare parts, availability of tech support, and ability to be jury rigged as needed. We also wanted the ability to use the windvane as an emergency rudder, something not available on the Sailomat and inadequate (in our opinion) options on Capehorn and hydrovane.
Before choosing Monitor we considered capehorn and sailomat but decided against capehorn due to the complexity and difficult access of the control lines and blocks. We decided against Sailomat largely based on poor customer service (difficulty getting in touch with the one person running the company) and the fact that they frequently change their design and do not stock many parts from prior models. That said they both probably function well in general and the Capehorn is a good looking piece of kit in our opinion.
The Monitor is a very widely used wind vane on a wide variety of boats. The current design is essentially the same as the original with some structural improvements (for example a bar to protect it from being damaged by dinghies etc). The unit is made out of stainless steel rather than aluminum. Despite that it is not much heavier than a Sailomat mainly due to using large diameter thin walled stainless. It has the strength and corrosion resistance advantages of stainless while still remaining light. Installation was simple but did require some careful measurements. Essentially you bolt on four "feet" and connect the unit. If you want the Monitor can be easily removed for storage when you're in port for an extended period of time.
The Monitor can be converted into a relatively substantial emergency rudder using their MRUD kit. http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/mrud.php
The Monitor is strong enough that you can climb around on it like a jungle gym which is actually proving to be convenient at times. You need to remove the aft boarding ladder (or purchase an optional hinge for the wind vane mount) but we were planning to do that anyway. If you've ever tried climbing up a transom mount ladder while out to sea (or even in a rough anchorage) you understand why...
Monitor customer service is EXCEPTIONAL! I encourage you to see for yourself. Call them and ask whatever questions you may have. Another example - they produce custom design drawings with specific measurements that match your particular transom. All documentation is packaged for easy storage and reference.
At first we were hesitant because of it's aesthetics. Then we realized that aesthetics were truly last on our list of priorities for this equipment. After we finished installation we were pleased to discover that it actually looks good on our boat. I know that's subjective but a cruising boat has so much crap poking off it in all directions the monitor fits right in. Here's a link to other examples of E38s with Monitor wind vanes - http://www.selfsteer.com/boats/view.php?boatTypeID=816
Let me be clear - I do not think the Sailomat, Capehorn, or even the expensive Hydrovane are poor choices. The Monitor best met our particular needs and priorities.
Scanmar has a variety of other wind vane makes that hey have bought out over the years. Some work well on some boats.
I have yet to be on a boat with a hydrovane that works. I am up to 4 boats now, none of them have worked, all have been installed via the correct procedures. None of them have been installed by me however.. Hydrovane has a lot of testimonials on their site, so some people seem to have them steering, just not the four boats that I have been on..
Anyone have one that actually works? Would love to go for a ride...
Guy
There is a couple currently cruising in Fiji (after a few seasons in French Polynesia) who have a hydrovane on their E38-200 http://sailingwithmarkandvicki.blogspot.com/. I was in contact with them when I was looking for a windvane for our 38-200 and partly based on their feedback we ended up installing a Monitor wind vane http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/index.php
We are preparing for offshore passage and extended cruising in remote areas so our priorities (in descending order) are function, durability, availability of spare parts, availability of tech support, and ability to be jury rigged as needed. We also wanted the ability to use the windvane as an emergency rudder, something not available on the Sailomat and inadequate (in our opinion) options on Capehorn and hydrovane.
Before choosing Monitor we considered capehorn and sailomat but decided against capehorn due to the complexity and difficult access of the control lines and blocks. We decided against Sailomat largely based on poor customer service (difficulty getting in touch with the one person running the company) and the fact that they frequently change their design and do not stock many parts from prior models. That said they both probably function well in general and the Capehorn is a good looking piece of kit in our opinion.
The Monitor is a very widely used wind vane on a wide variety of boats. The current design is essentially the same as the original with some structural improvements (for example a bar to protect it from being damaged by dinghies etc). The unit is made out of stainless steel rather than aluminum. Despite that it is not much heavier than a Sailomat mainly due to using large diameter thin walled stainless. It has the strength and corrosion resistance advantages of stainless while still remaining light. Installation was simple but did require some careful measurements. Essentially you bolt on four "feet" and connect the unit. If you want the Monitor can be easily removed for storage when you're in port for an extended period of time.
The Monitor can be converted into a relatively substantial emergency rudder using their MRUD kit. http://www.selfsteer.com/products/monitor/mrud.php
The Monitor is strong enough that you can climb around on it like a jungle gym which is actually proving to be convenient at times. You need to remove the aft boarding ladder (or purchase an optional hinge for the wind vane mount) but we were planning to do that anyway. If you've ever tried climbing up a transom mount ladder while out to sea (or even in a rough anchorage) you understand why...
Monitor customer service is EXCEPTIONAL! I encourage you to see for yourself. Call them and ask whatever questions you may have. Another example - they produce custom design drawings with specific measurements that match your particular transom. All documentation is packaged for easy storage and reference.
At first we were hesitant because of it's aesthetics. Then we realized that aesthetics were truly last on our list of priorities for this equipment. After we finished installation we were pleased to discover that it actually looks good on our boat. I know that's subjective but a cruising boat has so much crap poking off it in all directions the monitor fits right in. Here's a link to other examples of E38s with Monitor wind vanes - http://www.selfsteer.com/boats/view.php?boatTypeID=816
Let me be clear - I do not think the Sailomat, Capehorn, or even the expensive Hydrovane are poor choices. The Monitor best met our particular needs and priorities.
I asked Knoos about spare parts. "Nobody ever asks for them." And I do believe that since the thing is made of bolted together aluminum plates, it would be very easy to fix, and many parts would work out of oak. He guarantees "for the first circumnavigation."
Stellan is 76 and lives in a nice house high over La Jolla, which is prototype Southern Cal Lifestyleville, although he strikes you, on a two-hour visit, more like the retired slide-rule engineer than he is than a typical Tesla-driving Calidude. He really has changed the Sailomat a lot, bit by bit. According to a dockmate of mine who made long passages with an early model (and liked it fine) the unit is very different than former iterations. Stellan manufactures the units in Sweden, then assembles them himself in his shop (OK, his garage; but it is a well organized garage). I think he does about 30 units a year, and while I was there he was packing one to go to Brazil. After some begging, that was the unit I took home.
Yes, communication is not instantaneous. I would hate to try to get Stellan on the Satphone from Fiji. He goes to Sweden in the summer. One of our appointments was rescheduled because his children were visiting. I began inquiring about the Sailomat in November and got one in my hands in April. However, I liked him. He had a career in aerospace and has that perfectionist mentality that is both admirable and hard to punch through.
It's hard to choose a vane. People have strong opinions--but which, unlike Guy's, usually don't withstand scrutiny. (Good installation? Good Boat? Age of vane? Oh, you bought it used, missing parts, never could get it working right, etc. Oh, you did a delivery and couldn't get it to work? Oh, you know a guy who had one 10 years go and it didn't work in a storm, just when he needed it most?) The Web sites are not paragons of disinterested data either (Scanmar/Monitor seems to exist to warn you against its competitors and some of what it has to say about them is doubtful). So, you're on your own. Which is probably where we should be, since we have to install it, fix it, and live with our decision.
Really, I probably made my choice because I like the look (meaning design and aesthetics) of the Sailomat for my particular boat, which is not very long but has quite a wide reverse transom. The Monitor looks grand on a 38-foot double ender nearby, on me it would look like the Eiffel Tower. Abnd maybe because La Jolla is 90 minutes from my house.
Stellan is 76 and lives in a nice house high over La Jolla, which is prototype Southern Cal Lifestyleville, although he strikes you, on a two-hour visit, more like the retired slide-rule engineer than he is than a typical Tesla-driving Calidude. He really has changed the Sailomat a lot, bit by bit. According to a dockmate of mine who made long passages with an early model (and liked it fine) the unit is very different than former iterations. Stellan manufactures the units in Sweden, then assembles them himself in his shop (OK, his garage; but it is a well organized garage). I think he does about 30 units a year, and while I was there he was packing one to go to Brazil. After some begging, that was the unit I took home.
Yes, communication is not instantaneous. I would hate to try to get Stellan on the Satphone from Fiji. He goes to Sweden in the summer. One of our appointments was rescheduled because his children were visiting. I began inquiring about the Sailomat in November and got one in my hands in April. However, I liked him. He had a career in aerospace and has that perfectionist mentality that is both admirable and hard to punch through.
It's hard to choose a vane. People have strong opinions--but which, unlike Guy's, usually don't withstand scrutiny. (Good installation? Good Boat? Age of vane? Oh, you bought it used, missing parts, never could get it working right, etc. Oh, you did a delivery and couldn't get it to work? Oh, you know a guy who had one 10 years go and it didn't work in a storm, just when he needed it most?) The Web sites are not paragons of disinterested data either (Scanmar/Monitor seems to exist to warn you against its competitors and some of what it has to say about them is doubtful). So, you're on your own. Which is probably where we should be, since we have to install it, fix it, and live with our decision.
Really, I probably made my choice because I like the look (meaning design and aesthetics) of the Sailomat for my particular boat, which is not very long but has quite a wide reverse transom. The Monitor looks grand on a 38-foot double ender nearby, on me it would look like the Eiffel Tower. Abnd maybe because La Jolla is 90 minutes from my house.