Ericson Windlass Installation [Master Thread]

[footrope]

Troubleshooting

The windlass shelf has been permanently in place for a few days and the windlass is installed probably for good, at least as far as the deckplate goes. Initial testing of the operation has been done with the bow overhanging the dock, with the chain and anchor only. A couple issues have arisen and a question has come up regarding the fit of the motor and gearbox to the deckplate's spacer tube.

Should there be any play between gearbox and the spacer tube after the plastic locknut is tight? I was assuming that there would be none, but there seems to be a little rotation play in the castellations and a tiny amount of tilt play. The locknut is as tight as I can get it by hand. It doesn't seem to matter which direction the collar under the locknut is oriented. There is no cross-threading. I also greased the locknut and gearbox threads. In the low-weight testing there isn't any noticeable problem, but it is something I need to resolve as "OK" or not. The end of the shaft is at the right place to fit the key and retainer spring.

The issues that have come up are with the anchor roller and anchor interface. The first thing that was evident was that the galvanized shackle pin is too long for the space between the vertical plates of the roller. This situation, even if manually corrected when the anchor reaches the roller, is not going to work with that shackle and its pin, because the stock of the rudder can get caught between the vertical plates. That jams the anchor there and stalls the windlass. That is not a workable situation.

After a nice meal and an evening looking at the differences between my roller, the old bronze roller, and the updated roller on the younger E38s, we came to the conclusion that the new roller was going to be OK without any major surgery. Naturally, the biggest initial fear was that the roller would have to come off to be modified or replaced. The first thing we did was find a new shackle and try it. We looked at swivels and there are a couple (less expensive ones) that would fit, but the recommended one (expensive) was too fat for the roller. I'd rather avoid a swivel anyway. We found a stainless Wichard 1305 shackle with the allen-head pin. The dock tests with that shackle are very encouraging and we may progress to wet-anchor testing with that change only.

The old roller never gave us problems in manual operation and it is easy, with hindsight, to see why. The roller vertical plates, although closer together than mine, are low and aft, with respect to the roller wheel itself. The wheel is right there at the front of the plates and has its orienting and twisting effect on the anchor stock before the stock reaches the narrow area behind it. Likewise, on the newer E38, a wider plate spacing and roller would allow the shackle to pass and anchor stock to come aboard and twist as needed.

If further testing shows that it is necessary to make more changes, then we'll deal with that and post the results. In the meantime I've decided to make some adjustment to the standpipes for the washdown pump hose and windlass wiring, and complete the chafe guard for the gearbox.

The old shackle and new shackle.


Old roller

 

[Loren Beach]

That new shackle with the flush mount pin 'head' looks nice.
Source?

 

[footrope]

Three of the Wichard series of allen-head shackles were in stock at Fisheries in Seattle. For the largest they carry at the store, the 13/32" pin, I paid $41.57 plus tax.

The pin tightens up very snugly, but I'll probably add some red Locktite once I'm sure the configuration is finalized. There is no seizing wire hole.

 

[footrope]

The "play" question and the answer from Maxwell

... snip

Should there be any play between gearbox and the spacer tube after the plastic locknut is tight? I was assuming that there would be none, but there seems to be a little rotation play in the castellations and a tiny amount of tilt play. The locknut is as tight as I can get it by hand. It doesn't seem to matter which direction the collar under the locknut is oriented. There is no cross-threading. I also greased the locknut and gearbox threads. In the low-weight testing there isn't any noticeable problem, but it is something I need to resolve as "OK" or not. The end of the shaft is at the right place to fit the key and retainer spring.

snip ...

Answer from Vetus Maxwell via their website query page:

"Hi Craig

Thank you for asking, yes a little play is fine

Best Regards

Will Vrooman

Sales Manager
Vetus Maxwell Inc."​

 

[footrope]

Standpipes

Completing the standpipes by adding a 45 degree elbow at the floor and adjusting the length of the upper part to rest at the hull-bulkhead joint. Added a coupling which has a smooth radius at the exit to avoid chafe. Standpipe for the washdown hose is identical. The 55+ feet of chain laying there looks puny, but in real life there's 300 feet of 5/8" 8-plait that will be on the floor before the first chain link hits the pile.

 

[footrope]

Wrapping up the installation and dry testing

A busy week+ since my last post. The windlass is installed and has been tested successfully with all my chain (60 ft) at the dock. Except for a few boat preparation tasks, we're ready to go try it out with the 8-plait attached.

The aft piece of the original locker pan is installed and sealed up against today's rain. I have one length of fiberglass cloth left to go underneath the deck along its aft edge. There are also some small cloth pieces to be added at the outboard forward edges, underneath the deck, to finish the awkward close up of the seams where the pan, the new bulkhead and the deck come together. I added thin 1/4" Starboard strips to the lip of the opening with 4000UV and put the "marine" rubber seal over them (bought at Lowes). And I drilled a drain hole for the pan, through the new bulkhead, that will let the water go forward into the locker.



There was a 1/4" air gap between the new bulkhead and the original plywood bulkhead. I decided to use a fireblock expanding foam to fill that area. I think it will add some sound deadening and prevent sweating and mold getting between them. It's a low-pressure foam, so there is no bulging. The toe rail space on either side was also filled at the bulkhead. It's all been cleaned up and the door to nowhere is ready to go back on.



Hopefully my next/last post will be along in a couple weeks with a couple pics and a link to a video or two of the windlass piling up all that rode into a pyramid.

 

[footrope]

Addressing old questions

Today, in intermittent rain, I completed the glassing of the pan, I think. There was a leak from last night's rain on the starboard side that made it into the shelf of the v-berth. Hopefully today's reinforcement (cloth and thickened epoxy) on the inside of both outer edges will stop all drips. Finished up the back side with a strip of cloth on the underside of the deck to seal that aft seam.

What about securing the bitter end of the rode to the boat? After plenty of time putting this decision off
I made a strap out of 2mm stainless bar and put a small galvanized shackle through it on one end. I put
a 5/16" hole in the other end and hung it on the left side of the shelf at the front. Plenty strong and it will
be in view rather than buried under all that wet rode.



Protecting the windlass gearbox? Due to the angle of the shelf the chain and rode will rub against the gearbox
as it runs up and down. I added a 2-1/4" PVC coupling under the shelf where the rode comes through the
shelf and it looks like that will be all that's needed. Pending real-life testing. (Update: Added some black pipe into the white coupling. See second picture in the next response.)

 

[footrope]

Some more tidying up. I spliced the 8-plait to the chain. The splice runs through the windlass both ways ok.
The full 360 feet of rode fits in the locker easily, as expected. I loaded the rode using the windlass and pushed
the pile over twice while the 300 feet of 8-plait was going in and once while the chain was loading.

Connected the washdown hose. I bought a 15' coiled hose (Ocean Equipment) and adapters to the 3/4" hose. That's all
tested and supported now on the right side of the shelf.



I modified the gearbox protection guard/chain guide by adding a piece of 2-1/4 inch black ABS pipe into the white coupling.
I cut the bottom 3+ inches of the pipe in half, lengthwise, to provide a view of the rode while still keeping it away from the
gearbox. It was only hitting the gearbox when the anchor was going down (chain going up). I think it will work fine now.



The turning roller at the front of the locker opening that was to be used to guide the chain and rode passing over it has been installed as planned. However, testing at the dock showed that the chain should pass under the roller. The rode jumped the roller in early testing, so this is one reason to go under. The other reason is that, on deploying the anchor, the rode is restrained and that keeps the end of the rudder stock from hitting the lower pulpit rail. Deploying the anchor is working well, too, in dock-side testing. It does not self-deploy, but after releasing the stock all I need to do is give it a tiny push and down it goes.

 

[Christian Williams]

Craig's installation is strong.

Here is a photo of a windlass on an E380 currently for sale.

It looks like the pan was only reinforced by a top sheet?

The asking price for this boat is $125K.

 

[footrope]

Hopefully the underside of the anchor pan looks something this 1985 E38 with a similar horizontal windlass installed.

 

[Christian Williams]

Any opinion about whether this simple installation make sense?

 

[Baslin]

Windlass E381

Christian,

Here is my windlass that I installed about 6 months ago. This is a Lofrans Royal Manual Windlass. I reinforced the anchor pan from below. I tied all the reinforcements into the forward bulkhead. The anchor pan is now 1.5" thick. I have anchored several times with it and I am very pleased with the operation. I have 275' of 5/16" HT chain.

 

[footrope]

Any opinion about whether this simple installation make sense?

Christian,

I think it makes sense if properly installed and reinforced. It looks like it would be less work to do that type of installation, vs an overhaul of the locker. Baslin's looks good and his is very similar to the installation that I photographed while preparing to do mine. A friend of mine who owns a 40 ft. power boat has a deck-mounted horizontal windlass and is happy with it. He replaced an older horizontal and changing to a vertical would have meant expensive repairs to the foredeck prior to putting holes in it for a vertical.

The only caution on horizontal capstan vs. vertical capstan that I am aware of, from second- and third-hand discussions, is that the horizontal type might have the chain jump off the gypsy at times. Since the horizontal gypsy engages the chain or rode for one quarter of the circumference or 90 degrees, this can cause the chain to jump off, perhaps under high loads while raising the anchor. I don't know if the horizontal gypsy is designed differently as a way to reduce that possibility or not. The vertical gypsy engages the chain up to halfway around, if properly oriented to the path of the chain. This was a factor in my decision to choose a vertical type.

It seems to me that a manual horizontal windlass would experience fewer problems with jumps than a motorized one. Also, manual means no running wires and the associated complications of a motorized version.

Craig

 

[footrope]

Experiences with the new Windlass, Anchor, Anchor roller and Locker configuration

Finally, we got out for a cruise this year. Left Aug 4th and returned Sep 12th. Made to our goal, Desolation Sound, British Columbia via the San Juan Islands, Gulf Islands, Sunshine Coast.

Overall the system worked great. We anchored in 45 to 50 feet a couple of times and several times between our old limit of 35 feet and 45 feet. The Maxwell RC8 is fast and strong and works well with the 8-plait rope spliced to 60 feet of 5/16 HT chain and 33 lb. Rocna anchor.

The only significant negative experience occurred when raising anchor one morning on the way back south. The gray plastic stripper is kept in position by the mounting body of the windlass, but is attached to the gypsy spindle. It popped out of it's anti-rotation position and rotated with the incoming rode. That jams the rode and brings anchor retrieval to an abrupt stop. I had to pull the gypsy and spindle to put the stripper back in place. The open locker made this easy and it was done with minimal trouble, but I had to lay down with my chest over the shelf and work upside down. Since I did the installation myself I'd seen that perspective before. The steel shaft key took a couple tries, but the grease helped keep it in place while I rotated the gypsy to the correct angle. I need to think about how/why that happened and maybe contact Maxwell.

The relatively small drop from the windlass to the pile of rode in the locker required me to move or push over the pile about every 20-35 feet of rode. The open locker made it easy to see and do. I have an idea about how to arrange the rode to make that a little better, but the open locker means that this is not a priority. The configuration of the RC-8 vertical windlass means that I can't get to the hole where the rode drops through the shelf from the top. But, it is easy to lean over and pull down on the rode under the shelf.

Many locker configurations, including my pre-modification locker pan, have access to the hole that leads the rode to the space below. A fellow Ericson 38 owner uses a stick to push over the pile hidden below the locker pan. A very good alternative to going or sending someone below and all the way to the bow to knock over the pile. Perhaps that is why my boat was equipped with a Mark-1 sawed-off broom handle about 30 inches long. It was stored in the locker pan, was slick and black with mold, and I never figured out what it was used for. But I kept it for many years in case one day it became obvious.

The 8-plait is spliced to the chain, as recommended. The splice is fairly long and is larger in diameter than the rode, for obvious reasons (I'm a lousy splicer?). It sometimes hangs up and won't go down the hole after it is stripped from the gypsy. I may need to do a different splice or just do a better job of splicing. This happened after a few times, only when pulling up the anchor. I think this was due to the mud and salt water making it less flexible than it was before it actually got wet. Again, I can reach under the shelf and pull the splice down and relieve the jam when necessary.

During my first few anchor deployments I was allowing the anchor and chain to free-fall. I stopped doing this because of the loud racket, and I noticed that the gypsy was getting some damage at the edges of the chain gripping section. Now I motor the chain out. It makes a small difference to deployment time which hasn't been a problem. The Maxwell is a fast windlass, so that helps.

The Rocna anchor is working fine. We set with only a moderate reverse power setting, sometimes idle in shallow water especially. It sets as fast or faster than the Bruce we used to use. The narrow anchor roller that I have is sensitive to the orientation of the anchor when it comes in. I was told, correctly, that I can orient the Rocna with the tip pointing aft by dipping it in the water and reversing the boat. The tip of the shovel then points aft and the stock comes into the roller properly. I also found I can rotate the chain in the roller to make that happen. We used both methods on the cruise.

The washdown pump and coiled hose worked well. Not quite the pressure I'd like but that can be overcome. The Rocna is like a shovel and it often brings up a large load of mud if it is set really well. Makes me even happier that I have the windlass. Mud is heavy. Sometimes we dipped the anchor and went forward to try to clean the mud off, but usually we just sprayed. Kelp and weed were present at Watmough Bay (Lopez Island) both times we anchored there. A boat hook, dipping, and spraying were used to clear the clingy debris. Everyone was bringing up kelp from the shallow bay.

 

[footrope]

Update after two seasons of use and a wet winter

The windlass, anchor and rode combination worked well in our 2019 cruising season. We took smaller trips, anchored a lot. We didn't go further north than Port Townsend due to planned travel and activities. I'm inspecting the windlass, windlass wiring and preparing to clean and lubricate the mechanical parts. Here is what I have found in the inspection.

The standpipes I installed to manage and protect the wires and washdown hose inside the locker were basically working ok. However, when washing down the bow and storage pan in the aft part of the locker the water drain on the left side of the pan (orange arrow) was sending some of the water down the standpipe for the wiring. That leads the water down under the v-berth. I added a 90 degree elbow to both standpipes to prevent that.


The three small #14 wires that exit the standpipe (to control up-down direction) are terminated with the switch wires in a junction box. The up-down switch is contained in another junction box of the same type. The screws holding the lids on the boxes had severely rusted heads and I had to use a Dremel cutting wheel to cut slots so that I could remove the lids to inspect inside. I found very clean connections in both, even though I didn't do anything heroic to seal the boxes against moisture. I do have to figure out what to do about the screws. I like the control switch that I can hold in my hand, so far. No plans to install foot switches.


The motor leads were removed to change to the 90 degree elbow. I had used white lithium grease to coat the terminals. All three look great, no salt crust or green copper corrosion under the covers. The motor base and the blue housing are a bit crusted. I will rub them off and wash/rinse them in fresh water. I may add a thin coating of grease to protect the steel parts and reduce any effect of the salt environment.


I will pull the gypsy and spindle soon, but I don't expect any problems. I have no plans to remove the motor and gearbox this season.

My rode handling has matured with experience, especially in the second season. The main result is that I am shifting the rope forward as it piles up. That moves it away from the drop zone, providing a longer drop height after each 30 feet or so. When the chain starts coming aboard I shift the rope one last time, giving the aft part of the locker to the chain. I still have to move the chain a couple times as it piles up, so it does get shoved forward some. The washdown pump and sprayer hose works well, despite somewhat lower than optimum pressure.

 

[Christian Williams]

Great update.

On a charter in the Caribbean on a 65' Lagoon, anchoring every night with all chain, it was the job of the "stewardess" to kick the pile as it came in. She had to do a lot of kicking to level the piles, and she was good at it. Apparently a standard job in chain lockers, although I doubt the bikini is standard.

 

[Doug177]

In my humble opinion, the bikini should be standard equipment in the Caribbean.

 

[Christian Williams]

See also: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/manual-vertical-windlass-install-on-an-e32-3.19751/

 

[Mr. Scarlett]

)

I worked on a ship where the SOP was to put two deckhands in the chain locker to hand flake the first two shots - thwartships first to cover the deck plate, than fore and aft, then in a large, guided circle. Failure to do this could cause the chain (6 5/8" studded) to "pineapple" and fall over on the section that is supposed to run the next time it was dropped. Thankfully it wasn't trusted to new hires and the ship was retired before I would have qualified.

 

[Christian Williams]

Couple of links of that chain could be our anchor.

Craig, would you say a washdown pump is mandatory? I imagine chain comes up with mud, although maybe not in all environments.