Regarding the return line or not, I think the best thing is to check it out from the engine side and trace back as mentioned before. I just can't tell from the photos if there is a second pickup for delivery or not. Regarding the excess fuel delivery, this is often done with mechanical fuel injection pumps and injectors to act as a cooling agent (and also sometimes lubrication). This may not be the case with this engine (don't have hands on with a 1GM), but it is not uncommon and would be my first reaction to this type of setup.
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When I replaced all the fuel system hoses, I found that the factory supply for the diesel was a much-bent-and-abused copper tube and the return was hose. I replaced both with new USCG-approved fuel hose.
Loren
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
The copper line looks like the fuel supply line to me. Is there a primary fuel filter/separator attached to the end of that line? On my 30+ the supply line is rubber and terminates at the Racor filter/separator. From the Racor it is a copper line like yours that goes to the electric fuel pump. (I suspect that it is copper because the fuel pump creates enough suction that it could possibly collapse or restrict the flow in a rubber hose?) The return line on my Universal M-18 is part of the fuel line that supplies the injectors. On your tank it looks like the black rubber hose is the return line; it apparently terminates at that "T" fitting and the other side is the vent hose.
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
I'll have to get back to you on that Mark. It is a rubber hoes and terminates at the Racor filter/separator on mine. I know that.
I plan on posting more photos of this project but it's gonna take some time because I only have weekends to work on it.
I plan on posting more photos of this project but it's gonna take some time because I only have weekends to work on it.
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
Thanks Mark for the detailed photo. Yes all labels are readable. I was just curious. I am sure I will be replacing the old copper tubing and old fuel line. Fortunately I have a good friend who works for the Yanmar dealer here and all my questions will be answered when he meets me on Sunday. I am so glad he's going to assist me in this project.
cascadesealion
David
tank removal
I have a '76 E27 too. I found the tank came right out of the lazzarette (sic) and a nice new plastic job fit right in. With a few mods to hold it down, like a plywood base. Pretty simple. Forgive me if you've covered this already-- I didn't read the whole thread.
I have a '76 E27 too. I found the tank came right out of the lazzarette (sic) and a nice new plastic job fit right in. With a few mods to hold it down, like a plywood base. Pretty simple. Forgive me if you've covered this already-- I didn't read the whole thread.
mherrcat
Contributing Partner
Checked the fuel lines on my engine against the pic I posted and they are correct. As I recall, the supply line fitting on my original tank had a flare connector, even though the hose was rubber, so the original line from the tank to the primary filter may have been copper. When I replaced the tank I couldn't find the right size hose barb so I kept the flare connector on the tank end of the hose; works fine and doesn't leak.
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
Can you tell me what brand and size of tank you got as a replacement? I measured my tank and it's 10" tall X 24" wide X 16" long.
Thanks for your reply cascadesealion, I have been hoping another E-27 owner who has been through this would chime in. Can you tell me what brand and size of tank you got as a replacement? I measured my tank and it's 10" tall X 24" wide X 16" long.
On another note: I found out that the copper tube is the fuel line and the rubber hose is the return line. That being said, I am hoping that I may just be able to replace the copper fuel line with a new fuel line and that it is just clogged in the copper line that is all twisted. I was not able to get my Yanmar guy down to the boat over the weekend, he's supposed to meet me late this afternoon.
agraziano23
Member II
10" tall X 24" wide X 16" long - what size it this in Gallons? it seems a bit small for the 15Gallons claimed in the E27 brochure.
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
I have no fuel gage. This is the first time I ever measured it. I just assumed it was 15 gallons because of the brochure.
Since those are external measurements (3840 cubic inches) , and that equals approx. 16.6 gallons...
15 gallons internal capacity seems quite believable.
LB
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Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
That makes sense Loren because there's about a 3/4" flange that sticks out all around the tank on the length and width. Thanks for calculating that! 
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
I really want to thank David (cascadesealion) for this valuable information. I sent David a message back channel and his reply makes perfect sense to me after careful examination of how my tank will need to be removed and a affordable plastic replacement is to be reinstalled. I can do this.
I felt this is valuable information and should be posted on this site. I really love ericsonyachts.org!
Thanks again David!
Hi Jeff,
I found a pretty good plastic tank, about 16 gallons I think............. Ohh, here's the receipt! I got it from Fisheries Supply in Seattle. They ordered it in, took about 30 days to get. 12gallon, MOELLER part no. 032512 fisheries sku= 189987 Fisheries ph. 206-632-4462
New tank needed a 3/4 in. plywood platform and straps as plastic is too flexible to span as the steel tank did between the 2 webs glassed to the hull. I bent over one existing portside ply web (while pulling old tank), splitting some fiberglass, leaving the starboard ply web up, untouched and bonded down the platform to the webs with repairs to the glass on the port one after it was bent back up. A couple of cleats to the top of the webs and the platofrom screwed on. Maybe the new tank went in and aft first and repairs and parts went in afterward. Tank then slid forward and onto the new platform over the restored webs. Strapped on, it plumbed up ok, though, the fill needed some elbows to line up with the existing deck fill fitting location. Simple really.
The tank: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com....do?pid=11809# My price wholesale from Fisheries was $152- w/tax and frieght.
--Dave
I also found the same tank listed here. http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/MOE-032512/
I am pretty sure I will be going with the 12 gallon because it is the closest fit.
I felt this is valuable information and should be posted on this site. I really love ericsonyachts.org!
Thanks again David!
Hi Jeff,
I found a pretty good plastic tank, about 16 gallons I think............. Ohh, here's the receipt! I got it from Fisheries Supply in Seattle. They ordered it in, took about 30 days to get. 12gallon, MOELLER part no. 032512 fisheries sku= 189987 Fisheries ph. 206-632-4462
New tank needed a 3/4 in. plywood platform and straps as plastic is too flexible to span as the steel tank did between the 2 webs glassed to the hull. I bent over one existing portside ply web (while pulling old tank), splitting some fiberglass, leaving the starboard ply web up, untouched and bonded down the platform to the webs with repairs to the glass on the port one after it was bent back up. A couple of cleats to the top of the webs and the platofrom screwed on. Maybe the new tank went in and aft first and repairs and parts went in afterward. Tank then slid forward and onto the new platform over the restored webs. Strapped on, it plumbed up ok, though, the fill needed some elbows to line up with the existing deck fill fitting location. Simple really.
The tank: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com....do?pid=11809# My price wholesale from Fisheries was $152- w/tax and frieght.
--Dave
I also found the same tank listed here. http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/MOE-032512/
I am pretty sure I will be going with the 12 gallon because it is the closest fit.
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
"Let's not throw the Baby out with the bath water"
"Let's not throw the Baby out with the bath water", Is what my mechanic said.
Well at this point I am not going to replace the tank. Here's what we found. After removing that old copper tubing (yes copper), we found that it had black gunk in it, but I was easily able to blow that out. Then I checked to see if I could draw fuel directly from the tank, no go. My mechanic came down with his compressor and hooked it up directly to the tank. Removed the deck fill and gave it a couple very short blasts with the compressor and it blew out the clog. Then we hooked up a small hand pump and pumped out about a quart of fuel until it pumped clear. Pumped another half gallon to be on the safe side, still clear / clean fuel. I replaced the section of copper line with USCG-rated 3/8" rubber hose as well as new 3/8" barbs.
I took the boat out and ran it for and hour on Saturday and I swear I had more power than I ever did with my little 8.3 hp Yanmar 1GM10. My mechanic really wanted me to try and stir up the tank to see if I was pumping any more crud so I took advantage of every wake and wave I could find. I then put up the sails only to find my Genoa had some of the stitching coming undone on the hem of the leech, so I decided to cut my sea trial short and spent the rest of Saturday repairing the sail. I checked the Racor primary filter and the fuel was still clean as a whistle!
I got back on the water yesterday, the 5th and motored out for about and hour, still no problem. I hoisted the sails and sailed up the coast for about 3 hours and got a nice heel on in about 12 knots of wind, made a couple tacks to try to really stir up the tank. Then the wind died so I motored the six miles back (2 hrs), bashed through some pretty good wakes and still no problem. Once I rounded the Angels Gate lighthouse the typical Hurricane Gulch area was piping up to about 17 knots, there was a lot of wakes and chop in the harbor but I plowed right through at about 4.5 knots, 2600 rpm's, which is good speed for my boat with that kind of wind on the nose. Got back in my slip, I checked the Racor primary filter and the fuel was still clean as a whistle!
I also taped a piece of cloth to the end of a yard stick and stuck it down the deck fill and swished it around at the bottom of the tank and only found a little rust colored residue. So I think I am in good shape. I will do a couple more day sails and probably even replace the Racor primary filter one more time before I feel confident that things are okay to do another Catalina trip.
Oh yeah, after careful inspection of the tank and looking at how it was installed by my mechanic, he said that he would probably end up having to cut the tank up to remove it. I really don't want to have to go through that. Yes it's old, yes it's steel, but It does not leak and it seems to be pretty clean. We speculate that the clog started in that old twisted and kinked copper line and stuffed backed up all the way down into the tube inside the tank.
Thank you for all the replies and great advice through this ordeal! I'm back in action!
"Let's not throw the Baby out with the bath water", Is what my mechanic said.
Well at this point I am not going to replace the tank. Here's what we found. After removing that old copper tubing (yes copper), we found that it had black gunk in it, but I was easily able to blow that out. Then I checked to see if I could draw fuel directly from the tank, no go. My mechanic came down with his compressor and hooked it up directly to the tank. Removed the deck fill and gave it a couple very short blasts with the compressor and it blew out the clog. Then we hooked up a small hand pump and pumped out about a quart of fuel until it pumped clear. Pumped another half gallon to be on the safe side, still clear / clean fuel. I replaced the section of copper line with USCG-rated 3/8" rubber hose as well as new 3/8" barbs.
I took the boat out and ran it for and hour on Saturday and I swear I had more power than I ever did with my little 8.3 hp Yanmar 1GM10. My mechanic really wanted me to try and stir up the tank to see if I was pumping any more crud so I took advantage of every wake and wave I could find. I then put up the sails only to find my Genoa had some of the stitching coming undone on the hem of the leech, so I decided to cut my sea trial short and spent the rest of Saturday repairing the sail. I checked the Racor primary filter and the fuel was still clean as a whistle!
I got back on the water yesterday, the 5th and motored out for about and hour, still no problem. I hoisted the sails and sailed up the coast for about 3 hours and got a nice heel on in about 12 knots of wind, made a couple tacks to try to really stir up the tank. Then the wind died so I motored the six miles back (2 hrs), bashed through some pretty good wakes and still no problem. Once I rounded the Angels Gate lighthouse the typical Hurricane Gulch area was piping up to about 17 knots, there was a lot of wakes and chop in the harbor but I plowed right through at about 4.5 knots, 2600 rpm's, which is good speed for my boat with that kind of wind on the nose. Got back in my slip, I checked the Racor primary filter and the fuel was still clean as a whistle!
I also taped a piece of cloth to the end of a yard stick and stuck it down the deck fill and swished it around at the bottom of the tank and only found a little rust colored residue. So I think I am in good shape. I will do a couple more day sails and probably even replace the Racor primary filter one more time before I feel confident that things are okay to do another Catalina trip.
Oh yeah, after careful inspection of the tank and looking at how it was installed by my mechanic, he said that he would probably end up having to cut the tank up to remove it. I really don't want to have to go through that. Yes it's old, yes it's steel, but It does not leak and it seems to be pretty clean. We speculate that the clog started in that old twisted and kinked copper line and stuffed backed up all the way down into the tube inside the tank.
Thank you for all the replies and great advice through this ordeal! I'm back in action!
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Hi Jeff,
sounds like you got a good resolution at the right level of complexity and price. Similar to where I got to on Emerald's tank. After running her out of fuel (gauge now installed...), I decided it would be a prime time to do something with the tank, like clean it. There wasn't much loose mung to get, but the sides are coated with a nice tar like residue. My initial reaction was I had to get it off. After poking at it, I realized I was just getting ready to create a lot of work, and this stuff wasn't going anywhere if left alone. So, 5 years later, the fuel is still clean coming out of the filter, and I figured I saved myself a bunch of agony. Sounds like you did likewise
sounds like you got a good resolution at the right level of complexity and price. Similar to where I got to on Emerald's tank. After running her out of fuel (gauge now installed...), I decided it would be a prime time to do something with the tank, like clean it. There wasn't much loose mung to get, but the sides are coated with a nice tar like residue. My initial reaction was I had to get it off. After poking at it, I realized I was just getting ready to create a lot of work, and this stuff wasn't going anywhere if left alone. So, 5 years later, the fuel is still clean coming out of the filter, and I figured I saved myself a bunch of agony. Sounds like you did likewise
Jeff Asbury
Principal Partner
Thanks David,
I am still considering having a service come down to polish it but there really is no access hole. If they can just go in through the deck fill it may be worth it, but the estimate I got for installing a access and polish was between, $350. - $400. I was referred to another service that I am going to call. In the mean time I am feeling pretty good about it.
My mechanic said if any crud does show up in the filter, he would like to take the filter out and cut it up with a band saw to see what's in there. Not sure what his thinking is there. Right now I am just happy with "Let sleeping dogs lie".
I am still considering having a service come down to polish it but there really is no access hole. If they can just go in through the deck fill it may be worth it, but the estimate I got for installing a access and polish was between, $350. - $400. I was referred to another service that I am going to call. In the mean time I am feeling pretty good about it.
My mechanic said if any crud does show up in the filter, he would like to take the filter out and cut it up with a band saw to see what's in there. Not sure what his thinking is there. Right now I am just happy with "Let sleeping dogs lie".
I bet your fine. Part of how I got to where I did was talking with some different folks with many years and angles of marine engine experience. The consensus really got to if you've got the sludge and stuff in suspension out, you're well on your way. Do you have an electric lift pump? You could go buy one for about $40. You could do a simple cleaning/polishing yourself by circulating your fuel through your own filter. Just disconnect the "out" that goes to the engine and run a line back into the tank. Get the finest filter you can get for your Racor and see what you get out. The reason your mechanic wants to cut open the filter if it reclogs is to get a read on what you've got clogging e.g. sediment or mung like algae/microbes growing in the diesel. A simple hacksaw will work well enough to hack the old filter in half. It will make a mess.
Tank leak
I had a leak in my E27 tank as well and ran into the same issue with tank being too big to remove. The tank was secured with four "tabs" welded to the bottom of the tank on the forward and aft sides that measure about 2.5 x 2.5 inches.I drained the tank (diesel), removed the fill and vent tubing, fuel line, ground and fuel sender connections. Next I cut the front two tabs with a sawzall using a good, long and flexible metal blade. The tabs were bedded with fiberglass and were fairly easy to cut off. I was able to work the back two tabs free once the front tabs were removed. With the tank empty, it wasn't too hard to flip it over and find the leak, clean the area, sand it, and repair it with Jenweld. It was a two person job getting the tank positioned back in place because the back two tabs hard to fit back into the fiberglass slots. Once back in place, I used some fiberglass cloth and resin to secure the forward side of the tank. Hope this helps....
I had a leak in my E27 tank as well and ran into the same issue with tank being too big to remove. The tank was secured with four "tabs" welded to the bottom of the tank on the forward and aft sides that measure about 2.5 x 2.5 inches.I drained the tank (diesel), removed the fill and vent tubing, fuel line, ground and fuel sender connections. Next I cut the front two tabs with a sawzall using a good, long and flexible metal blade. The tabs were bedded with fiberglass and were fairly easy to cut off. I was able to work the back two tabs free once the front tabs were removed. With the tank empty, it wasn't too hard to flip it over and find the leak, clean the area, sand it, and repair it with Jenweld. It was a two person job getting the tank positioned back in place because the back two tabs hard to fit back into the fiberglass slots. Once back in place, I used some fiberglass cloth and resin to secure the forward side of the tank. Hope this helps....